News: No news is good news...

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: Now a good time to make some advertising?  (Read 3486 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Naabster

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 167
  • Country: de
  • In the grim far future there is only -green stuff-
Now a good time to make some advertising?
« on: June 14, 2014, 01:32:09 PM »
Hey everyone,

i've been on the forum since early 2011 with not a lot of activity but i consider myself a regular. Especially in the painting area. Anyhow I am more then happy that the forum is back online but i fear that quite a few people stopped trying to come back since it wasn't the first time that the page wasn't reachable for a couple of days/weeks...

The facebook communities on the other hand just keep getting bigger and bigger while activity over here seems to decline ( i know its a topic already discussed)

My point is that i think that it is possible to get fresh blood into the pool, especially if all of us pitch in. I started a post in the Eldar facebook group today to get a discussion going about the pros and cons of Online Forums in comparison to facebook groups and of course mentioning the nice 40konline community. Most people there seemed not to keen to join forums anymore since "hating" is supposed to be a big issue "there". Cant really agree on that though.. especially not here...

What else can we do to make 40konline known again? While we are the 4th result on google search a little advertising on other sites such as facebook, google+ ( anyone actually using that?!?!) ect. couldn't do any harm. Could it?

Any thoughts?


Offline Wyddr

  • Author Eminence: Hereticus Liber Daemonica | Fio'shas Shi
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5133
  • Country: us
    • My blog about SF/F stuff
  • Armies: Daemons, Imperial Fists, Tau, Ksons, Vostroyans
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2014, 08:32:19 PM »
I think the best way to attract members is to have good discussions and threads to view. If people get what they want here, they'll come back. The more we post and the more we start topics, the better off we'll be.

As for advertising, I don't think we should do that until this place is fully stable (which Kindred seems to be working on). I've told my friends about this place, but then the site goes down and they get grumpy.

Offline Naabster

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 167
  • Country: de
  • In the grim far future there is only -green stuff-
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2014, 11:14:08 AM »
I think the best way to attract members is to have good discussions and threads to view. If people get what they want here, they'll come back. The more we post and the more we start topics, the better off we'll be.

I have the feeling, that everyone who actually still visits the site also contributes. I know I haven't posted hundreds or even thousands of replies, but I don't hesitate if I have something meaningful to say. I guess the same goes for most others as well.

My Point is, that the remaining people are just not enough to fill out the gap/lack of people to keep the site from dying a slow death. (much like a craftworld  ::)

I believe that forums still are the best place to find interesting hobby related stuff, army list discussions, painting advice etc. FB just cant do that because everything i post is gone down the wall in about 10 minutes never to be found again.

I believe that just posting good stuff isn't enough. All the other remaining forums do that as well so ultimately its just marked competition about a limited amount of "buyers".
The questions we should be asking are:
What is it that makes 40k online unique? Why should people come here instead of warseer, warmaster, dakka dakka etc.?
How can we attract those that like our uniqueness but don't know it exist

And maybe, how can we improve our reputation and is that something we actually want. Frankly a lot of times I ask "outside" people if they would like to join 40konline and they reply, that they heard somewhere that the mods just overdue it and behave like "quote: Nazis".
I think moderation is quite strict here, but maybe thats wanted and actually a good thing. But how can we sell that as an advantage to outside people?

Offline Irisado

  • A Light in The Grim-Darkness ~ Guns Don't Kill People, Copyright Stats Do | Farseer | Reporting Live! from the Crime Scene | Somewhat behind the times
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11266
  • Country: gb
  • Soñando debajo del arco iris
  • Armies: Administrators must not play 40K
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2014, 11:37:07 AM »
You can't really sell strict moderation.  What you can do is sell fair moderation.  If you look at the rules here and the rules on other forums like WarSeer and Dakka they are, for the most part, very similar.  The only difference is that the rules have been applied here, and on these larger forums, they either don't apply them consistently because of a lack of moderators, or just don't bother to apply them for other reasons.  Because this is a smaller forum, and we've always wanted quality contributions, the rules have been enforced.  To me, that's the selling point - we cut out spam and off topic discussion.  Maybe the Facebook generation doesn't like this approach because they're accustomed to the free-for-all which is Facebook?

All forums are suffering from loss of activity to Facebook and blogs.  Even large forums, such as WarSeer, have suffered significant activity drops in the last few years, and it does show if you know where to look.  The reason why it looks worse here is because we've lost a lot of the most prolific and experienced contributors for a variety of reasons (no longer playing the game, too many real life commitments, and yes, in some cases, personality clashes).

The Staff has been discussing the whole issue of activity and boosting the membership on and off since 2010.  The front page was rejigged, article submission was revived, and various attempts were made to encourage contributions through competitions.  None of these measures has achieved the desired success.  We need more content, but we don't have people around to produce said content, so it's a bit of a catch twenty-two.

You haunt my in-box like an ex-girl friend could only dream of.

The Forum Rules - Please Read and Remember Them.

Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Naabster

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 167
  • Country: de
  • In the grim far future there is only -green stuff-
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2014, 01:10:00 PM »
Thanks for the reply Irisado! I know that it has been a long discussion and it may be not my place to start it again. But frankly i've gotten used to the people around here and would hate to lose the fun i am having here.

Yes all the forums and blogs and facebook are a fierce competition and I am not talking about getting 700 new people over here who just spam and chatter. Thats what facebook is about and its fun! I am talking about means of recruiting maybe 20 - 30 dedicated people who like to contribute in all different areas of the hobby..
If we don't go advertising some where else ( I think we should) then at least give people a list with honest reasons why they should join here. To be honest the front page isn't that exiting...  Something like this right at the front could make a little difference.
I am not a pro at advertisement but i know that people like to be courted ;) Lets give em a little sugar!


Welcome to 40k online!

You might ask yourself, why by the God Emperor should I be joining ANOTHER Warhammer 40k hobby site? Well let us give you a couple of good reasons why you should hang out here instead at any other place.

- we shall not forget the past: Firstly 40konline used to be EldarOnline, so till this day most of the users here have lots of Eldar related knowledge. Be it fluff, tactics or army building. You want a guide to the Webway? You came to the right place!

- we shall embrace the future: only if you know the past you can contribute to the present and future. 40konline has lots of cool people with years and years of Warhammer 40k experience. We are all still playing, collecting and painting and we know how to adept to every new edition.

- we honor the rules: Are you tired of no moderation at all? Are you fed up by flaming, spamming and hating people, be it on facebook or other huge sites, where hundreds of people just do as they please? Yes? Then you are at the right place. Moderator take their job seriously and will tell all those trolls out there to be grumpy somewhere else. We only want the best people out there! Do YOU have what it takes?  8)

- we have it all: Ok Eldar are cool, but our forum has tons of information on all the other Warhammer 40k races and actual living people who know where their towel is. (42 is the answer!)

- Want a place to show of your latest painting achievement or you are a newbe and have no clue where to put your paint? Excellent! We have our own image gallery, painting contest, modeling and conversion site.

So please be welcomed and build your list, find out how to paint it and show it off in the gallery or in a battle report!

Offline Irisado

  • A Light in The Grim-Darkness ~ Guns Don't Kill People, Copyright Stats Do | Farseer | Reporting Live! from the Crime Scene | Somewhat behind the times
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11266
  • Country: gb
  • Soñando debajo del arco iris
  • Armies: Administrators must not play 40K
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2014, 01:18:01 PM »
The front page is easy to change, and I agree that we could make it more appealing.  I can make changes to it, but the senior staff would have to give their input on these ideas first, so I'll wait and see what they say :).
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 01:19:16 PM by Irisado »
You haunt my in-box like an ex-girl friend could only dream of.

The Forum Rules - Please Read and Remember Them.

Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Naabster

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 167
  • Country: de
  • In the grim far future there is only -green stuff-
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2014, 01:33:58 PM »
Cool! Lets wait and see what they say!

Offline khaine

  • This happens when I am bored.
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1376
  • Country: england
  • Truly Dread
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2014, 01:55:31 PM »
You can't really sell strict moderation.  What you can do is sell fair moderation.

Problem still comes that if a site has a bad rep for unfair moderation you can't sell it for fair moderation. Now that is not me expressing an opinion* on the sites moderation, that is me expressing an opinion on the sites reputation for it's moderation.

Much like Skoda cars in the early 2000s could never have been sold for their reliability no matter how reliable they had become.

What else can we do to make 40konline known again? While we are the 4th result on google search a little advertising on other sites such as facebook, google+ ( anyone actually using that?!?!) ect. couldn't do any harm. Could it?

Any thoughts?

Generally it's hard to get permission from any admin to advertise another site on their site and you would have to ask first.

The Staff has been discussing the whole issue of activity and boosting the membership on and off since 2010.  The front page was rejigged, article submission was revived, and various attempts were made to encourage contributions through competitions.

Good content is always hard to generate if people don't have what they feel is a strong involvement in the content host. It's also a lot harder to encourage new people to contribute than it is to shut off those that are already contributing, so maintaining a solid base is hard enough and expanding said base even harder.


Are there ways around those issues? Sure. They are at heart marketing and PR problems and with the right marketing you can sell anything.



*Which would be another topic.

  There's no stopping what can't be stopped, no killing what can't be killed

You can't see the eyes of the demon until him come calling.

This is dread man, truly dread.


"Childhood is when you idolize Batman. Adulthood is when you realize that the Joker makes more sense."

Offline Radec

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 175
  • Country: 00
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2014, 06:24:01 PM »
Since I can't fall to sleep for some reason I might as well write something here.
 On the topic of moderation - I've seen a few threads resurfacing from time to time, but I've always been reluctant to take part in any of them because of how easy it is to lose temper on the internet. My opinion on the whole matter:
  I've had only one mild warning concerning my first or second post on the forum. I can't remember if it was about some big pictures of my army posted or having said something about army stats - whatever it was it must have been fairly simple to remember it because I haven't had any problems since. The site rules are easy to follow and largely intuitive. My game group knows about this site as I've recommended it as the place I like the most concerning rules discussion and overall quality of the posts. There are people that value this things more than the quick, one-liner post discussions that could be found elsewhere. Here the quality of topics stays the same as time passes by - I know I can find a useful thread or article, that I can read again or link to someone and it will be largely free of any spam or irritating off-topic posts.
 
Concerning the forum activity:
 I've always been reluctant to post my opinion. I'd like to think that most of the time I've tried to keep my posts informative, helpful in the current context and containing as little reiteration of other posts as possible. I've restrained myself many times in the past when I've felt that my post won't be good enough for the people, that are following the thread, to read. As of late, I'm also largely uninterested to comment my army lists and builds. Without sticking my nose too high, I think I've reached the moment when I know my current army well enough to build lists without having doubts about what should be in or out / most effective configuration etc. This and the kind of limited unit pool I can draw from leaves me with almost no interest left in discussing my lists with other people (sorry again if this sounds too snobbish - I'm not writing it with such tone in mind).
 Despite the above claim, that I feel confident enough to not ask for advice in army building as of late, I also don't feel prepared enough to write any form of article or review on tactics/units etc. All this in short - at moment I will post only in few threads concerning the narrow topics that are of interest to me and only if I feel I have something good to say. If there were more threads concerning the narrow fields I'm interested in I would post more often. On my own I'm not a good contributor to the forum as I can't seem to generate stuff without other people's participation. Maybe there are others like me.

I can't think of anything concerning forum advertisement other than recommending it to other people I know personally that I think would make good members. As of now I'm one of the two people in my group registered here and the only one that is kind of active ( I try to follow the forum on a somewhat regular basis). IMO trying to get members from other sites to join here wouldn't have much effect as it seems to me that most of the older players have already settled in the places where they feel the most comfortable. As of how people entirely new to the hobby could be attracted to 40konline I can't think of anything different than what have already been said many times - members attract other members and forum material attracts members. I haven't been active enough in both things and if there are indeed more people like me it is no wonder that the user count stays low - there's nothing to spin the wheel.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 06:30:23 PM by Radec »

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

  • Grand Master of the Deathwing | Oh the lolmanity! | 40kOnline's Care Bear of LOL!
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11315
  • Country: ca
  • We were murderers first, last, and always!
  • Armies: Dark Angels, Custodes, Knights, Night Lords
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2014, 06:46:16 PM »
And maybe, how can we improve our reputation and is that something we actually want. Frankly a lot of times I ask "outside" people if they would like to join 40konline and they reply, that they heard somewhere that the mods just overdue it and behave like "quote: Nazis".
I think moderation is quite strict here, but maybe thats wanted and actually a good thing. But how can we sell that as an advantage to outside people?
You can't really sell strict moderation.  What you can do is sell fair moderation.

Problem still comes that if a site has a bad rep for unfair moderation you can't sell it for fair moderation. Now that is not me expressing an opinion* on the sites moderation, that is me expressing an opinion on the sites reputation for it's moderation.

Much like Skoda cars in the early 2000s could never have been sold for their reliability no matter how reliable they had become.
I can't deny we have a reputation for being draconian in our enforcement of the rules (a better term than being Nazi's I find).  But one thing I have always come across with regards to our reputation is exactly how Naabster phrased it, "I heard they were X over there."

Most of what I have seen in other parts of the internet, is that people will go to other forums or Facebook and rage about how they got their hand slapped for violating our rules by doing something that is permitted on the other boards.  Then because those people are raging, the word spreads. 

Often I have found that if someone says "Oh I heard that place was bad for ____ reason," the simplest way to make them rethink that point is to ask them if they have either experienced that themselves, or if they had even been to visit the forums.  9/10 times, the answer to both those questions is no.

As was said though, to get people to come join, they need to be encouraged by current members to join.  If you are part of a Facebook group, and you bring up that you are a member here and someone comments about how they heard we were nazis about enforcing our rules, tell them the truth. 

Have you ever been moderated?  Was it a bad experience?  When you think back on it, do you think the moderator was justified in taking action against you? 

What is your favourite thing about the forum, what keeps bringing you back over other boards?  Is it the smaller community where you don't feel that your voice is lost to the masses?  Or is it the the moderators are active;y trying to keep things civil and spam free so that you can actually get meaningful information from a thread without having to dig through pages of crap?

People complaining on Facebook that they don't like forums because of the hating and flame wars?  When was the last time that was really an issue here?

Just encourage people to try.  If you post in a Facebook group that 1000 people will see, 10 might take you up on the offer to come check it out.  But if nothing is said, then no one is coming.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

Quote
"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Naabster

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 167
  • Country: de
  • In the grim far future there is only -green stuff-
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2014, 04:16:42 AM »
Exactly my point GML!


WE the people can change something with being active on other boards and encouraging other people to join us here.
My point in starting this thread was to stir up a little concentrated effort from everybody who feels the same as I do.

I am sure, that with this in mind and maybe 4 - 5 people trying this for a couple of weeks would go a long way.
Also my point stands, that the main page needs a little motivational due over since the only information really standing out is the fact, that the site just crashed and lots of content may be lost... Not the best add in my book.

An other idea would be to contact companies who sell hobby related stuff, and are interested in reaching a large active fanbase. And 40.000 registered users is a good starting point for negotiations.

I love that the site is commercial free, but what if there where free give aways for user who participate in some way or the other. Be it painting or writing up cool scenarios etc.

With something like this we could actually go and do some advertising on the big social networks with something like:

Hey folks! come join 40konline! We have this cool thing going on where you can win awesome terrain if you participate. Only for the next three weeks!


Just putting out there some ideas...

Offline Irisado

  • A Light in The Grim-Darkness ~ Guns Don't Kill People, Copyright Stats Do | Farseer | Reporting Live! from the Crime Scene | Somewhat behind the times
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11266
  • Country: gb
  • Soñando debajo del arco iris
  • Armies: Administrators must not play 40K
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2014, 08:18:43 AM »
The fact that we don't have any adverts on the forum is actually another selling point come to think of it.  Most wargaming forums that I've been on do have adverts, and some of them have very prominent adverts.  This is one of the few sites where I don't need to enable an adblocker.
You haunt my in-box like an ex-girl friend could only dream of.

The Forum Rules - Please Read and Remember Them.

Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

  • Grand Master of the Deathwing | Oh the lolmanity! | 40kOnline's Care Bear of LOL!
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11315
  • Country: ca
  • We were murderers first, last, and always!
  • Armies: Dark Angels, Custodes, Knights, Night Lords
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2014, 03:10:56 PM »
But if we were to get Raine on board with the idea of a partnership type ad, it wouldn't have to bealarge ad or a pop up.  Work out a deal where we have a banner and link in the header to their site and they do likewise.  Traffic for both, no cost. 

If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

Quote
"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Kindred

  • Solitaire Llama Lord | Not a Mass Murderer
  • PINK!
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4228
  • Country: us
    • Turtle Shell Productions
  • Armies: Eldar
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2014, 05:16:49 PM »
you do realize that we have an affiliates section including banners -- and have for years?

http://www.40konline.com/index.php?action=affiliates;sa=affbanners
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 05:19:01 PM by Kindred »
Solitaire Llama (Also known as the Dali Llama)
WS10 BS10 S5 T5 I1 A1 Sv1+
Spit, Neck Throw, Guardian of the Sheep

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

  • Grand Master of the Deathwing | Oh the lolmanity! | 40kOnline's Care Bear of LOL!
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11315
  • Country: ca
  • We were murderers first, last, and always!
  • Armies: Dark Angels, Custodes, Knights, Night Lords
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2014, 05:50:38 PM »
Yes, and of the 4 affiliates that we have in there, not a single one (including the one I submitted in 09) have brought in any traffic.  None of them even link back to us.

If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

Quote
"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Kindred

  • Solitaire Llama Lord | Not a Mass Murderer
  • PINK!
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4228
  • Country: us
    • Turtle Shell Productions
  • Armies: Eldar
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2014, 10:00:46 PM »
Well, my two used to link back...
I just don't get all that much traffic on my sites... Lol



Solitaire Llama (Also known as the Dali Llama)
WS10 BS10 S5 T5 I1 A1 Sv1+
Spit, Neck Throw, Guardian of the Sheep

Offline Naabster

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 167
  • Country: de
  • In the grim far future there is only -green stuff-
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2014, 04:07:04 AM »
@ Irisado Advertising banners aren't always bad. I am pretty sure no one here wants to see blinking banners with "Hentai panties" or some gifs from "Chicks with dic$§"  :o

But to connect with certain affiliates isn't advertisement. Its partnership and I believe the site could benefit from it.

@ Kindred I have to say that I never even knew that these banners existed and to be honest they aren't easy to find. No wonder they don't link back to us. That is what i call a "logo graveyard"

I mean no disrespect for the work you guys do around here and i realize that its hard to keep track of all this seemingly annoying stuff. I can not imagine the work that it takes to keep a site running over years. Spending so much (life)time and energy takes a lot and I really appreciate it and I am sure most other members do as well! But sometimes things need a little kick to get going again... Maybe i can illustrate my critics with an experiment conducted on chimpanzees I read about.. some of you might know it or find it offensive but here I go anyway...I hope you guys take it with the pinch of salt its intended to be read with...

5 chimpanzees live in a room that has a ladder in the middle of it which leads nowhere. On the ceiling however the scientist installed a sprinkling system. Every time an ape would climb the ladder just for fun, the scientist would immediately turn on the sprinkling system and all the apes get socked in ice cold water. After a very short time all the apes just don't come near the ladder anymore.
Now the scientist exchange one of the chimpanzees. The newcomer naturally tries to climb the ladder out of interest. Before he even gets near it, all the old chimps beat him up and stop him form climbing the ladder. (so he never got soaked!). After some time the scientist exchange another monkey and the same thing happens.. After a while all the monkeys are exchanged and beat up every newcomer who tries to climb  the ladder, even though they have no concept of why they are doing it and never got wet.
If one could ask them why they are doing it, they would probably say: "Well thats how amphetamine parrot is done around here"!

All I am saying is: Its a good thing to check once in a while, if the sprinkler system is still in place ;)

Offline Irisado

  • A Light in The Grim-Darkness ~ Guns Don't Kill People, Copyright Stats Do | Farseer | Reporting Live! from the Crime Scene | Somewhat behind the times
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11266
  • Country: gb
  • Soñando debajo del arco iris
  • Armies: Administrators must not play 40K
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2014, 05:41:52 AM »
Just to clarify, my point about advertising was that the lack of banners and big flashing adverts would be something that could be included in the revised front page which you drafted.  That's what I meant by this being a selling point.
You haunt my in-box like an ex-girl friend could only dream of.

The Forum Rules - Please Read and Remember Them.

Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Naabster

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 167
  • Country: de
  • In the grim far future there is only -green stuff-
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2014, 05:49:39 AM »
Then we are talking about the same thing and i am absolutely with you, that this is a selling point for the site.


Offline Irisado

  • A Light in The Grim-Darkness ~ Guns Don't Kill People, Copyright Stats Do | Farseer | Reporting Live! from the Crime Scene | Somewhat behind the times
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11266
  • Country: gb
  • Soñando debajo del arco iris
  • Armies: Administrators must not play 40K
Re: Now a good time to make some advertising?
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2014, 08:02:05 AM »
I've made substantial edits to the front page based on Naabster's suggestions.  Thanks for your ideas Naabster.
You haunt my in-box like an ex-girl friend could only dream of.

The Forum Rules - Please Read and Remember Them.

Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

 


Powered by EzPortal