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Author Topic: Mention of a female Custodes brings out ugly controversy  (Read 286 times)

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Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Mention of a female Custodes brings out ugly controversy
« on: April 20, 2024, 12:00:30 PM »
So, some of you might have picked up news about the mention of a female Custodes in the recent Custodes codex, and GW affirming that "there have always been female Custodes", although previously there haven't been any specific mentions of anyone, and there are some lore tidbits about how Custodes are chosen from "noble sons" on Terra.

So, this has caused an uproar about retcons in some circles of both the fandom specifically, and certain perpetual culture warriors who only cover this for its supposed wokeism.

I don't presume to speak for everyone who've been into 40k for a bit longer, but I get the general impression that most of us see this whole deal as basically a nothingburger. Retcons are a dime a dozen in 40k, and I can think of far more significant (and egregious) ones, such as the Necrons reboot, the Votann, the whole Horus Heresy series, or the reboot of Necromunda. If we go farther back, the retcons become more numerous and even moe substantial, such as the primarchs starting off as regular old imperial generals, the horus heresy never exisitng, eldar-human hybrids, zoats, and so on.

Like... this is nothing, right? Who cares? Well, certain people care. A LOT. Certain, uh, specific people. I've been getting recommended videos from arch-dingus Sargon of Akkad over this. Good grief.

There appears to be a wider conspiracy theory here that there are some investing firms with sinister sounding names like Vanguard and Blackwater who've forced GW to put women in their games for... presumably sinister and woke reasons.

I mean, at most I think I can get the argument that this opens up a can of works of why the Emperor never made any female primarchs if he could make female custodes but honestly I think there's a whole new generation of 40k fans who don't know that we had arguments about female space marines back in the 00s and even back then there was never really a super-strong argument over why there aren't any, just sort of a inertia-driven adherence to previously established material. The writing doesn't show any female space marines because the writing only mentions male and only mentions male because it says it only works on males. It's a weak argument about genetic compatibility, but I think people have mostly just made peace with it either way, after 30+ years.

The Custodes are currently such a new army that there is more wiggle room, and GW seems to have utilized that wiggle room to make it unisex. Because, honestly, why wouldn't it be, if you think about it.

I just... even if you don't like the change (and you're free not to, obviously - I never quite accepted the Necron retcons), I cannot for the life of me understand why it would cause a strong reaction outside of hard right-wing whininess.

So yeah, this post is less an invitiation to debate and more a tired, resigned attempt to update fellow members that we have once again been dragged into dumbass culture war hogslop, in case you get some weird social media recommendations like I've been getting.

EDIT: Oh, and if you're going to get annoyed over stuff, get annoyed over the absolutely hilariously stupid story she appears in, where she plans to Exterminatus Terra as part of her graduation test to become a Custodes, lol. I know it's meant to be this whole thing where the Custodes constantly test themselves to stay alert, but what the hell lmao.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2024, 12:03:17 PM by Sir_Godspeed »

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Mention of a female Custodes brings out ugly controversy
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2024, 03:18:37 PM »
Yes. the Gatekeepers, that's what they call themselves, are all up in arms over it and either threatening to quit the hobby forever (well, good) or that it means GW is now on a self enforced death spiral. As you said, this adjustment to the fluff basically amounts to nothing. I believe the Knights(?) have also had a subtle realignment where before it mention sons of noble houses now it says something like family members of such thus allowing female squires. Less fuss was made but was still an indication of where the future was heading.

The anti-woke crowd, which is nonsensical on its own, can all go beslubber off elsewhere if they so desire.
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Offline Myen'Tal

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Re: Mention of a female Custodes brings out ugly controversy
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2024, 05:03:58 PM »
This anti-woke controversy and the people who are crying about it are so cringy, haha. I see no problem with female custodes and don't see how it ruins the game. It does the opposite and tells the trolls that this is not 'their' game, but a game for anyone and everyone. WH40k has always had high female representation, from the Aeldari races to the Astra Militarum and T'au Empire. Each of these factions are made up of both female and male soldiers, and that's always been the case. Over the last several years, it's gotten even better regarding the representation being depicted in the GW models.

I don't know why this sudden and obscure lore change has stripped away the illusion for some that this is a bros only game.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Mention of a female Custodes brings out ugly controversy
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2024, 05:36:10 PM »
I mean, at most I think I can get the argument that this opens up a can of works of why the Emperor never made any female primarchs if he could make female custodes but honestly I think there's a whole new generation of 40k fans who don't know that we had arguments about female space marines back in the 00s and even back then there was never really a super-strong argument over why there aren't any, just sort of a inertia-driven adherence to previously established material.

It could be said there were never any female Primarchs as the Emperor was and is a complete rather unsavoury chap, what-ho old bean?. It wasn't couldn't be done but rather he didn't bother and that's been followed through in the Imperial Creed that this means it can't be done. GW has an out with Cawl and Bile who could power through creating the gene seed through hard work and just not accepting no as an answer.

After having a LOT of spare time recently I've been catching up on the 40K novels and blowing through the Cawl and Bile books.
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Offline PaxImperator

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Re: Mention of a female Custodes brings out ugly controversy
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2024, 12:02:18 PM »
There appears to be a wider conspiracy theory here that there are some investing firms with sinister sounding names like Vanguard and Blackwater who've forced GW to put women in their games for... presumably sinister and woke reasons.

Hah! That almost had me spit out my coffee. Take it from someone with a passing interest in ESG investing that Vanguard is NOT a leader in bettering the world through the investments it makes on behalf of its clients. Quite the opposite in fact. They believe they exist to further their clients' short-term financial interests to the exclusion of all other considerations.

Sorry to hear about the controversy. Female custodes don't register on my 'amphetamine parrot I get worked up about' radar by a long shot. What's wrong with these people.

Offline Lachdonin

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Re: Mention of a female Custodes brings out ugly controversy
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2024, 12:27:08 PM »
What's wrong with these people.

They simply aren't smart enough to know that they are idiots. Full stop.

I legitimately had one person arguing that you can't take the 'weakest' people and make them the 'strongest'. Like those terms actually mean anything, when you're effectively bioengineering an entirely new species. Custodes are so far outside the range of capabilities of Humans they they can't even be CALLED human anymore. If you're going that step, why would you engineer in sexual dimorphism?

Nevermind the fact that human sexual dimorphism is a lot more complicated than just Weak and Strong.

They're the same sort of morons who think their grade school science class gives them all the information they need to understand the world around them, instead of... you know... giving CHILDREN the basics they need to learn and explore that world.

If this gets them out of the hobby, then good riddance to bad rubbish.
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Re: Mention of a female Custodes brings out ugly controversy
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2024, 01:29:57 PM »
I'll be honest: those absolute choads are on the list of reasons I've backed away from 40k to the far more inclusive and mellow Age of Sigmar.

It's also why, if/when I do play 40k again, I'm never playing another Imperial faction, because these beslubberwads are almost *universally* Imperium fanboys and I want very much to stomp them into bloody paste (on the game board, mind you), and I can think of nothing more satisfying than doing it with a bunch of Chaos marines or, even better, the good ol' Tau.

beslubbering morons.

Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: Mention of a female Custodes brings out ugly controversy
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2024, 02:49:42 PM »
What's wrong with these people.

They simply aren't smart enough to know that they are idiots. Full stop.

I legitimately had one person arguing that you can't take the 'weakest' people and make them the 'strongest'. Like those terms actually mean anything, when you're effectively bioengineering an entirely new species. Custodes are so far outside the range of capabilities of Humans they they can't even be CALLED human anymore. If you're going that step, why would you engineer in sexual dimorphism?

Nevermind the fact that human sexual dimorphism is a lot more complicated than just Weak and Strong.

They're the same sort of morons who think their grade school science class gives them all the information they need to understand the world around them, instead of... you know... giving CHILDREN the basics they need to learn and explore that world.

If this gets them out of the hobby, then good riddance to bad rubbish.


It's a universe where marines can tease out memories by EATING their enemies. It runs completely on Rule of Cool/Insane. It's nonsensical to try and bring in any kind of realistic biology to begin with, much less pre-high school levels musings.

----

Despite my best attempts to not engage with this, I had a brief exchange with someone who said this was an EVIL change. EVIL. These beslubbering guys need to log off and talk with real people.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2024, 02:52:19 PM by Sir_Godspeed »

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Mention of a female Custodes brings out ugly controversy
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2024, 03:27:29 PM »
Despite my best attempts to not engage with this, I had a brief exchange with someone who said this was an EVIL change. EVIL. These beslubbering guys need to log off and talk with real people.

If you look into the posting history of many of the people you'll find they're big on being on the wrong side of the culture wars but not a lot when it comes to the hobby. No models, no discussion other than hating on things, don't appear to play or read anything. You don't have to do all the things but these guys don't appear to do any of them. GW don't even know they exist let alone potentially miss them if they leave.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Mention of a female Custodes brings out ugly controversy
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2024, 04:08:07 PM »
The thing that always gets me with this is the people crying "if female custodes, why not female marines."  Custodes, unlike Astartes, have never had lore definitively say it can only be done with males.  Astartes have had this established for decades.  The fluff for Custodes only really started getting developed at the very end of 7th edition when the "codex" was first dropped.  To me, the saying that they are recruited from the noble "sons" of terra is like walking into a mixed room of people and saying "Hey guys!"

What makes it really funny for me, though, are the people crying about how ham-handed GW was in handling this; then using examples of Ripley from the Alien franchise about how she was a character who just so happened to be female.  Like the female custodian in the short story that sparked everything off...

Basically, this all boils down to GW is ruining 40k and everyone should change to OPR because GW can't be trusted with their own IP any more.

Blah...
Blah...
Blah...
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