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Author Topic: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*  (Read 20237 times)

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Offline Sox'li

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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2005, 10:35:32 PM »
New to Warhammer and looking for an army to start? Warhammer vet looking for a new army? Considered Lizardmen but still undecided about the choice? Well, look no further my friend, for you have found a compacted summary of the grand Lizardmen army! Here I will cover the more commonly used army, Lustria, and may do another later for Southlands if you DO happen to decide to play Lizardmen.

Fluff: So, long ago, there were powerful, god-like beings now known as the Old Ones. These beings had massive capacity for creation, and their servants, the Slann we all know and love, were their most talented. With the aid of their powerful masters, the slanns were capable of lesser works of creation. Well, making a long story short, the Old Ones stumble upon the world on which Warhammer takes place and rebuild it, altering its orbit and such other things. The first sentient race of the world was the Lizardmen. The Old Ones created a killing machine to use as warriors and protectors of their temples and cities. Around this time a huge band of saurus was patrolling the jungles, committing genocide to those creatures that did not fit in with the Old One’s meticulous plans, while defending others fiercely. Eventually, the Old Ones needed nimble, intelligent servants to help run the day-to-day activities in the temple-cities. Thus the skinks were born. The Old Ones also manipulated other jungle beasts to be servants and, if need be, powerful warriors. And so the Kroxigors appeared fr!
om the festering swamps of Lustria to serve the Lizardmen. Eventually, however, the Old Ones were driven off/killed/left of their own accord/whatever, and disappeared for ever, because of Chaos. The remnants of the Old One’s forces sought to end the Chaos insertion, and with the help of a noble sacrifice from the Elves, they were able to stem the tide. Since the departure of the Old Ones, the slann became dormant and thought the best ways to fulfill the Old One’s plans.

Strengths: This section deals with some of the more noticeable strengths of the Lizardmen.
- Magic. Despite the fact that they don’t have their own lore, the Lizardmen have arguably the greatest amount of magical power. The Slann Mage Priest is barely short of god-like in magic terms, and is an absolute must for magical dominance. They get so many bonuses and some great magical items, not to mention the banners they can get, that it’s just disgusting to not at least consider getting them. That is unless you hate magic. If this wasn’t enough, the lesser Skink priests access to one of the best lores in the game: Heavens.
- Troops. Lizardmen have some of arguably the most cost effective infantry in the game, in the form of Saurus Warriors. With two attacks each, a decent strength, and some high-ish leadership, these guys are meat-grinders and can more often than not stand up to almost anything, with the exception of Chaos Chosen and heavy cavalry.
- Dinosaurs! That’s right my friends, dinosaurs. Big, ugly, powerful, scaly beasts ready to absolutely crush everything in their paths. From tyrannosaurus-like carnosaurs to stegosaurus/triceratops/anklyosaurus hybrid stegadons, to raptor-like cold ones and demitridon-like salamanders (who spit fiery luegies!), and finally to the flying reptilians known as terradons, we have an army list that smacks of Jurassic Park. This, my friends, is beautiful!
Weaknesses: No matter how good I made you think this army list is, it still has its weaknesses, as follows.
- Nearly useless magic items bog us down. Dragonfly of Truesilver and a lot of our pendants and such absolutely suck. We actually have a very small selection of useful stuffs, consisting of little armor and little beyond some good cc weapons. It’s sad really…
- Short ranged. Let’s face it, no true war machines and access to weapons who’s highest range is a foot, we are a very short ranged army and rely on speed and positioning to be effective.
- Crappy special characters. Kroak is sweet, but he costs an army on his own. Unless the battle is huge, forget him. Kroq-gar is practically useless. Wish we had some access to some more powerful cc characters, but, alas, no cigar.
- No lore. We don’t have our own lore. That’s pretty self-explanatory.
- High points costs. We will be outnumbered and we will suffer from bad roles because of it.

While I am not the most “experienced” lizardmen player, I do know a fair deal of tactics. Now, I know that some consider word of mouth tactics with little experience is very illegitimate, but the following are agreed on by a large sum of lizard players, so I’ll go ahead and try this anyway. I will try to break down some well-used tactics as well as good force-organization considerations that I do not doubt will be useful to not only the newbie lizard player, but also the moderate-good player looking for some tips. Without further blabbing, here’s the Tactica.

SPECIAL RULES:

Blowpipes are a fun addition to what our skinks can do, making it so we can hail even more poisoned death upon our enemies. Javelins and blowpipes have been found to be nearly equal in effectiveness, depending on the given situation, and it is advised that at least one unit should have them.

Cold-blooded: This is a fun little rule that will make some inexperienced opponent cry cheese at times. This gives a little extra staying power in much needed close combat, so those who enjoy saurus armies will usually love this rule unanimously. Personally I love it ;D

To be continued...
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Offline Sox'li

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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2005, 10:36:46 PM »
*Lizardmen continued*
LORDS:

Slann-mage-priest: With its higher leadership, and magic-heavy abilities, the slann is a good choice for magical dominance as well as good leadership. Generations can be a waste in lower points games, and players usually don’t go past fourth generation. I advise not to use them higher than 4th unless you are playing at least 3k.

An important question that results from the fact that the slann is pathetic in close combat, with his measly skink attendant attacking for him, is this: What unit should I put him in? This topic is highly debated, with several sides. The two major stances on this choice are, quite obviously, blessed spawning saurus, or temple guard. Both are excellent choices, and the spawnings usually chosen are Tlazcotl and Quetzl with spears complimented by the banner of prophecy, which results in a nice, hard unit that can auto-break other units. The temple guards are also a good choice, what with their halberds and higher armor and being stubborn. Plus they look so dang cool! Magic weapons chosen by slann are usually plaque of dominion (or tepok, which also helps a lot) and either cube of darkness, which can shut down very important magic phases, or diadem of power, which some prefer sticking on a priest. Lores that are chosen for the slann usually depend on the player, but a popular one is Light.

Saurus Oldblood: Ah yes, the dreaded saurus killing machine! My personal favorite. If you want the power of a Chaos lord packed into scaly skin, this is your man…err, Lizardman. Speaking of which, there are many different ways to tool up your saurus general, whether he be the Oldblood or the Scar-veteran. So many in fact that it would take an entire tactica on its own to explain them all. The most widely (and effectively) however, is the Jaguar Saurus of Doom/Death, or JSOD for short. What this entails is basically giving your saurus the Jaguar Charm and a greatweapon. You can choose other weapons and equipment from there, as you desire. It is also important to remember to take blessed spawnings! Which brings me to my next topic: Mounting Your General. If you plan on having your saurus on foot, skip this here paragraph. Many people love the thought of a giant monstrous dinosaur from the dark depths of the jungle charging down enemy monsters a sadistically fun thought (me included!). This is not always the most practical choice (Carnosaur for those of you who are slow J), as it makes a large target that many a cannon would love to blast into nothingness. Not to mention that the carnosaur is far from on par with other such beasties, i.e. dragons, and players often feel inadequate. Nearly every general, however, loves oldies on Cold-ones, and they are often quite fierce when put into units of Cold-one Riders. The –1+ or so saves are often a very convincing factor.

That’s about it for lords, I’m sure I missed some, but it probably isn’t very important.

HEROES:

Saurus Scar-veteran: See oldblood, but ignore comments about carnosaur and remember that he’s limited to two spawnings and 50 points of gear. Still useful for staying power, still an evil little bugger that can really screw with people’s battleplans.

Skink Chief: This is one of the most useless heroes in the game, in many people’s minds. In fact, there is only really one viable option with this guy that actually makes him stick out: FSOD. FSOD, or Flying Skink of Doom/Death is, quite simply, a cheap mage/war machine killer. Give this guy a Cloak of Feathers, a Sword of Might, scouting, and let him fly! If you really want to, though, he can be a…poor to average fighter. If you want to just have fun and mess around, give him Dagger of Sotek and Killing Blow some poor sap’s chaos lord. That’s always fun.

Skink Priest: Generally used as scroll caddies, magic support, dependant wizards on their own, or diadem-holders, skink priests are actually more useful that their combat-based counterpart (skink chief). The option of putting him in a Stegadon is pointless, mostly because you no longer have the giant bow. But the extra protection and impact hits are always fun. Not one of my favorites, but if you want to, go ahead and do it. I just advise against it.

CORE: Thus brings us to the staple of all armies: the core choices.

Saurus: Wow. These guys, simply put, are amazing. Very few armies have units on par with saurus for core. Only problem is high point costs. The two attacks and decent save are very helpful in making these guys contenders with even chaos warriors. Usually you will see these guys with handweapons, and we’ll get to why in a second. But first, a note on command: the points cost to get this guy up one attack is stupid, and if you make/accept challenges with this guy, it is pretty much a waste (unless you want to distract that black-orc warboss while you kill the warriors around him) unless you are using him to fill points.

Spears. It is hotly debated whether or not they are worth the points to give them spears, but in my humble opinion, it isn’t. For one, you get no real benefit on the charge (and that’s generally what you want to get) with spears, and you worsen their survivability (no parry rule). On the other hand, the +second rank attacks can often turn the tide of a battle. Is it worth the points? I personally don’t believe so, but in the end it’s up to you. I will cover spawnings in the SPECIAL part of the tactica, so be patient or skip the rest of my stuff.

Temple Guard: As earlier discussed, temple guard are a viable option for slann-guarding. Let’s face it, 3+ save in close combat when using hand weapons is freakin’ sweet. Plus the two high-er strength attacks really help heighten these guys’ appeal. Reasons not to take them are they have to be joined by the slann, which can be a bad thing at times. If they are somehow overrun, bam! There goes a 900-point (at least!) unit all in one turn. Stubborn helps, but they can still be auto-broken, which sucks.

Jungle Swarms: They do what they do. Block marches, slow down big units, set up flank charges, and most of all, live for a surprising amount of time. Whether you think they are a waste of points or a valuable addition is your opinion, I really don’t have my own. Oh, and the poisoned attacks work wonders.

Skinks: Skinky skink-skinks! You cannot, I repeat, cannot leave these guys at home! I will physically force you to bring them if need be! How can you pass them up? People are scared of them and they do some great damage. Poison is a godsend against things like giants and ogres, which have little armor and you generally don’t wanna mess with in close combat. Just remember to keep them outta combat!

Javs or blowpipes you ask? This choice is purely situational. If the skinks are gonna take a charge and are just screening more valuable troops, go with javelins. They don’t suffer the normal penalties from moving and long distance, plus you get an armor save. These guys are great in conjunction with Kroxigors. If you are scouting or just standing and getting off as many shots as possible (defending an obstacle, maybe?) go for blowpipes. Double shots are vicious, especially on stand and shoots where you have to get poison to do anything anyways. Mine as well skip rolling to wound! These guys are oh so great for scouting because they have a greater range than javelin skinks, and can employ harassment tactics more effectively. Also used well with Kroxigors, but not as much in my opinion.

To be continued again...
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Offline Sox'li

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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2005, 10:38:14 PM »
*Lizardmen continued again*
SPECIAL:

Saurus Cavalry: Wow, these guys… I just love em to death. Who doesn’t enjoy hulking lizards carrying spears and riding faster, more stupid hulking lizards? Apart from stupidity, there is little to dislike about Cavalry. In fact, I can’t think of any! Well, except for the fact that they have miniscule armor compared to the other heavy cavalry choices in the game. But these are a huge improvement to skink cold one riders. They even have better weaponskill than regular saurus! High point costs, but worth it for flanking and riding down goblins. Give them Banner of Huanchi, and watch as your opponent whimpers in terror. Again, I’d leave the champ outta this unit, since he’s worth more than half as much as a regular saurus.

Kroxigors: Like skinks, you should never leave home without these guys. Decent save, better than other similar units, and skink screens make these guys a must-have. Leave out the ancient, he doesn’t add a whole lot, but he’s more cost-effective than saurus champs, so… if you want to have him, I wont hold it against you. Skink screens are almost a must, so keep these guys on the flank and have some fun bashing stuff.

Chameleon Skinks: Infiltrating, sneakier skins that are harder (much) to hit than regular skinks, these guys are pretty fun. A cheap tactic is to hide them behind enemy lines, making them in effect out of sight, but I wouldn’t do this since it seems a bit like powergaming. People generally don’t use them, but this is just personal prefrence. Keep the units small.

Terradons: Like a lot of other stuff lizards have, I love these guys to an extent that probably isn’t very healthy. Take into account the amount of stength 4 attacks. Then consider the fact that these guys fly, making them a very fast unit. And if this isn’t enough to make you start drooling, throw in hit-and-run. Salivating yet? Thought so. These happy bird-like reptilians are best used for hunting war machines and lone mages, but they can also be effective flank-chargers, helping out them there saurus. A large drawback to terradons, however, is their generally low leadership. If you hit-and-run, you run the risk of losing your terries. Horrible thought, ain’t it? But in my opinion, it’s worth it. Plus they have some great models to boot.

RARE: Whew, almost done folks!

Stegadon: This hulking mass of flesh is probably the most debated unit in the army. This is a love-hate relationship. Often you find that the giant bow, coupled with impressive strength, 2+ save skinks, impact hits, and survivability just brings so much joy to you as you smash through unit after unit with your beautiful triceratops mutation that should have probably never happened. At others, however, you may discover how frustrating it is to see nearly 250 points of destructive power being wasted by low-end troops because of low leadership and unsoloability. In other words, don’t charge these guys in alone, it barely ever works. All in all, this is a preference. Just try not to cry when he starts sucking to goblins…

Salamanders: Have you ever giggled like a little schoolgirl because you get a sick, sadistic pleasure from engulfing a unit in flames, causing a heck of a lot of casualties? Yeah, the salamander seems to have that effect. At under 70 points a pop, sallies are one of my favorite and most useful units in the game. I can’t argue with how many hits you get with Spout Flames, even if they are considerably low-strength. Sallies can also be a support unit in close combat. Low leadership and general hatred from other players are drawbacks, but sallies are just too fun to pass up. Keep in mind that two is the optimum unit level, and that people usually frown upon three. Whiners.

TACTICS: In this section, I will talk about some very fun tactics that have been honed over the year or so the new book has been out.

Thunder Lizard: it’s in your book.

Flying Serpent: Again, it’s in the book.

Harassment: This is generally a skink-tactic, although I suppose it could work with sallies. This involves being just out of charge range of a unit that is especially nasty in close combat, say, chaos warriors. The point is to keep moving as the warriors try to get close and charge the skink unit. Eventually he may be pulled into a flank position with some Kroxigors or something, and at which point you charge the sonofagun. This tactic generally only works on frenzied units or complete newbs. Most vet players wont fall for it, so you should save yourself some embarrassment.

Lone Slann: This tactic is pretty self-explanatory. It’s a slann taking advantage of his maneuverability, being alone and free to zap a unit with magic at his leisure. This also helps if you need to get somewhere and use that high leadership for a valuable unit.

Using swarms: Roadblock a unit, say a giant. Flank that giant. OR, roadblock a hefty cc unit, such as knights. Then flank charge. You get the idea.


Dang, didn't know it was gonna be that long! Oh well, enjoy ;D
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Offline Baron von Sakamoto

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Vampire Counts
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2005, 08:21:38 PM »
I guess I'll try the Vampire counts just cause I gots the book for em'.

VAMPIRE COUNTS:

The Vampire Counts (affectionatly reffered to as the VC) can muster up a ton of dead rotting walking carcasses. They move rather slowly and attack fairly slowly, but there are a lot of them. They have some pretty awesome units putting aside the skelies and the zombies. The Black Knights are great (by undead standards) and move fast (also by Undead standards).

They can take Vampires, awesome close combat units and with access to pretty nifty gear. The 5 different bloodlines, Strigoi, Necrach, Blood Dragon, Von Carstein & Lahmia. All of their Vampires can use Necromancy (except the Vamp. Thralls). If they can't make the use of counts/lords (which are Vamps in the Lords catagory), they can take Necromancer, which fill in the magic roll. Vampires tend to be point heavy but are very strong, very fast and deadly combatents.

Blood Dragon Vampires all specialise in Close Combat. They can take down almost any opponent they are required to fight. They could take down a Khorne Bloodthirster.

Von Carstein, is basically the all around vampires but can use the SoC list for the army of sylvanian which is a whole nother story.

Strigoi, (who've seemed to de-evolve rather than evolve) are machines driven by the hatred of their own kindred. All Strigoi vampires cannot take any weapons/armour or such things, but are none the less, still potent wizards and are more resilient than other vampires.

Necrach Vampires are the most magic oriented. While they are the worst Vampires in close-combat, that really doesn't say much. They still retain the scary speed of vampires and the strength of them, but with more powerful magic.

Lahmian Vampires are exclusively female. They are the fastest vampires. They also specialise in psychological abilities that can screw up your opponents forces.
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Offline Baron von Sakamoto

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Vampire Counts continued
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2005, 08:47:04 PM »
Units: The thing that you must remember with the undead is that they all cause fear! Fear is your greatest weapon in this army. Remember that relying on your Characters only can be a bad idea.
Moving onto the units.

LORDS:
Vampire Counts & Lords:
In 2000 point games, Counts are very good generals. Lords are generally reserved for larger games considering they take up a lord & hero slot. Usually want to give him a mount of some sort and always a form of a ward save considering that you are with undead and that he is the most important model in your army. If you give him a big mean mount (Winged Nightmare or Zombie Dragon) than you can throw him into the thick of the enemy and not have to worry about him too much. In small games, this is a bad idea though as the troops won't benefit from his aura.

Master Necros:
These guys aren't that great in games of 2000 points because they lack the strong power of a vampire. They make a nice second lord choice in big battles though.

HEROES:
Thralls:
Vampire Thralls are useful for making the fighting capabilities of your army better and the Ld of your core units better and can carry the general's standard. They are awesome in reducing the casualties in reducing the amounts of casualties suffered.

Wraiths:
These undead guys are great for challenging power enemy characters who have left their magic weapons at home, at his girlfriends car, ect. and can scare some dudes nicely with the Terror he invokes.

Necros:
A must have. They give you the magical support that the VC or any undead army desperatly needs. It's very wise to give them a bunch of dispel scrolls while you can have your general taking more interesting items.

CORE:
Skelies:
Skeletons are the basic bread & butter unit of the Undead. They can be bought in big units without equiptment or fewer of the lightly equipted ones, while keeping in mind you can always raise em' up from the dead if need arise.

Zombies:
One of the c**piest cc units in the game because of the "Braindead" rule. Basically, they have to wait until everyone has attacked and then they go (even after the Great Weapons). However, their strength is in numbers, not quality. With the highest unit minimum and the lowest cost and the easiest to raise. It all boils down to the fear tests; the more the better (and scarier!).

Ghouls:
They are a great screen for missile fire and prove useful in close combat when other units can get to other enemies. Their poisoned attacks are great for killing skirmishers & small units. They are alive however & not undead.

Dire Wolves:
They have a long charge distance (18" is pretty long!) and a unit strength of 2 per model and with that on top of it, a nasty slavering charge. It is ideal for killing artillery crews and small units. They do a good job of attacking the flank. However, they are extremely vulneralbe to missile fire.

Bat Swarms:
Flexible and very fast. They can tie up enemy units and are good at taking care of warmachines.

SPECIAL TROOPS:
Grave Guard:
Grave Guard are exceptionally strong and can continue to fight even after the death of the general and even characters should be aware of them and try to keep away of them because they all have killing blow.

Black Knights:
Same that applies to Grave Guard applies to Black Knights. But wait, there's more! Their equiptment gives them a better armour save and strength 6 attacks on the charge and they can move faster. They will rip the enemy apart if they start in the flank.

Fell Bats:
The fastest unit that you have, but don't hit hard and are best suited at warmachine hunting. They can also kill missile armed skirmishers in open, enemy wizards who stay on the outside of protection of their units.

Spirit Hosts:
These can hold up chariots and large monsters easily with the "Ethereal" rules that apply to them. They are great screenings against missile fire.

RARE UNITS:
Banshees:
They are expensive & frail, but can be very hindering against heavy cavalry with their screams.

Black Coaches:
Any weapon with 7+ is the bane of this construct, otherwise which is extremely resilient to missile attacks. It does a great job of charging units, but won't last long if charged.

And so concludes my part here.
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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2005, 04:44:56 PM »
Bretonnia part 1[/i]
Well let’s start with the Lords and work our way down shall we?  First is the Bretonnian Lord.  No fancy name, just a Bretonnian Lord (often referred to as a duke.)  Obviously, he is the best combat character that the Bretonnian’s have.  While having weapon skill six and usually strength six on the charge (with the abundance of magic lances) he is good, but doesn’t compare to a lot of other armies lord characters.  But needless to say, that a Bretonnian lord is still a powerful character on the battlefield, and adds and extra punch to a charging lance of knights.

Then there is the Prophetess…that in my opinion doesn’t really belong with Bretonnian’s.  Some people will argue, but I just do not believe Bretonnia to be a magic heavy army and your points would be better spent somewhere else.  Sure she has access to heavens, but in all honesty life is a perfectly good Lore and works well enough as it is.  Only time I would consider a Prophetess is a 3000pt battle or more, and even then a second Duke might be better to consider.

Now, onto hero’s.  As Bretonnia, we are required to take one more hero than normal, so in 2000pts we have five heroes when everyone else only has 4.  That can be a benefit but can also be a problem.  The benefit is that we get a BSB without spending the points for the upgrade.  The downside is that there is another character that is taking points away from your core.  Now, you do not have to max out on characters, but then again with the ability to field 5 characters at 2000pts you can field a Lord, 2 Paladins, and 2 Damsels.  Which gives you a decent combat force, as well as magic defence.  Paladins are your basic character, can give the added bonus to a knightly unit.  Damsels are your basic casters, with access to the Lores of Life and Beast.  Really, Beast does not suit the Bretonnian styles of fighting, considering a mounted damsel can hide in the center of a lance and not be able to cast magic.  Life however, does not require line of sight (except for rain lord) and can be very useful.  Your damsel remains protected and she can still kill things.

Now, the hero’s have been more or less covered…let’s focus on the big benefit of Bretonnia…the Knights.  Starting at the lowest of the knights is the Knights Errant who are affectionately called (by me) The Boys.  They are essentially your basic human on a horse with a lance and armour.  No biggy right?  Wrong.  While they just appear to be humans on horses, they are much more than that.  They are Impetuous!  Essentially they are harder to control than your basic knight, but they aren’t as hard as frenzied units.  Basically, they have to take a leadership check if you did not declare a charge and they could have.  Now that is the disadvantage of Impetuous, the advantage is that if you didn’t figure them to be in range they may still charge…but the bigger advantage that on the charge they are immune to psychology for that turn.  Added with the Errantry banner, for the cost of another Knight, you get +1 St on the charge and –2 to the impetuous test.  So you’re testing on 5 to see if you can hold back the charge.

Next up are the Knights of the Realm.  Your basic unit of knights, which you are required to have at least one unit of.  Relatively cheap compared to most other armies knights.  Nothing fancy aside from the fact they can take a magic banner.  Now Pegasus Knights are essentially Knights of the Realm on…you guessed it, a Pegasus.  They have an extra wound but do not receive a barding bonus.  Aside from that, they can fly and are skirmishers, which make them excellent flanking units.  A unit of 3 or 4 with a standard in the flanks of a unit getting hit by a lance of knights will cause even the hardiest units to flee.

Here comes the fun ones, the Knights of the Grail.  Which are Questing Knights and Grail Knights.  Questing Knights are the most unique unit of knights in the entire game of Warhammer.  Reason being, the models.  They are guys with massive swords who have their entire life on their backs.  Now, for rules and game play, people will say they have the most punch than any other unit of knights.  That may be true, but during combat they are also the most vulnerable of Bretonnian knights.  Their great weapons remove their shields in combat so they only have a 3+ save.  Ok so they have great weapons and are knights, big deal…but they also have the questing vow, which is quite cool.  In the previous editions of warhammer, all the questing vow did was make them immune to panic, however in the most recent version of the Bretonnian list the questing vow makes them reroll a failed psychology test.  While it is still possible for them to flee from panic and terror and such, there is a greater chance that they will pass which makes it all that much more better. 

Finally the last unit of knights to cover, who also happen to be my personal favourite unit, the Grail Knights.  The Grail knights are, arguably the best unit of knights in the game.  Immune to psychology, 2 attacks that usually hit on 3+ at st6 on the charge…while in lance formation.  Even chosen chaos knights are hard pressed to cause as many wounds.  These boys are the second most expensive unit in the Bretonnian list for a reason (second only to Pegasus knights).  A unit of 8 grail knights in lance formation with a damsel in the middle rank will have:  14 attacks hitting a unit, magic resistance, and 2 ranks.  Throw in a full command for the hell of it and every time they charge they will break a unit guaranteed (unbreakable and stubborn units don’t count).  I try to include one unit of 8 in every army that I personally make.  Sure it’s an expensive unit (comes out to 365 I think) and it is likely to draw a lot of attention, but in all honesty, all the fire power and magic that gets directed at it isn’t going to the rest of my knights, and even if 4 knights live out of 8…that’s still the same amount of attacks as a lance of 8 Knights of the Realm.  What I’m saying is that, even with a small amount of models left they still cause quite a hurting.
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"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2005, 05:39:53 PM »
Bretonnia part 2

Now for the Low born…errr I mean Peasants.  If you are unfamiliar with peasants, they are inbred, malnourished, weaklings.  But anyways, let’s begin with the Men-At-Arms.  They are the basic lowborn, brought to war by their lord.  They have a pitiful weapon skill of two, which means they are hitting weapon skill five on 5+.  No big deal, that’s where the honour is, let’s leave it for the knights.  So really, WS2 isn’t that big of a disadvantage as long as you don’t go against the big baddies.  Men-At-Arms are actually still quite good.  They have a decent save and for no additional cost you may switch their halberd to a spear.  But the real question is, is that a good idea?  With WS2 they are practically always going to be hit on a 3+, so yes it is a very good idea.  The halberd might give a strength bonus, but spears can give you more attacks.  But what’s the biggest benefit of a Man-at-arms?  He is cheap!  Dirt-cheap really!  You can have a squad of 20 for 100pts!

Ok next are the Bowmen.  Your basic human archers, they aren’t going to hit much and aren’t going to kill much.  But, they have long bows so have a decent range, and are only one point more than a man-at-arms.  One of their bonuses is their defensive stakes.  Basically, it adds an inch to the charge range of the unit charging them, but removes all their charging bonuses.  So a lance won’t give the extra strength, great weapons strike last etc.  For one point more, then can skirmish, which allows them to make an excellent screen to either prevent your Knights Errant from charging or prevent the enemy from charging your knights.

My favourite unit of low born has to be the Grail Reliquae.  They are the only peasants that benefit from the Blessing of the Lady.  From what I can tell of this unit, they have one weakness in the Bretonnian army.  They have WS2 (as they are peasants) and they only move 4.  Other than that the unit is all advantage.  They are stubborn, they hate everything, they have leadership 8 (only peasant unit which does), they have the blessing, come with unit strength of 12, and (after buying more battle pilgrims) can be brought up to unit strength of 36.  Theses are however, the most expensive peasants…but not by much.

There are the Mounted Yeomen, which are not anything special.  They are your basic fast cav.  Slight save, fast moving, bows, cheap.   I have personally never used them, but they would make good flankers, but I guess it would be a personal decision on them.

Finally is the Trebuchet.  A recently added war machine to the Bretonnian Arsenal.  It’s a cheap effective unit.  A strong stone thrower with a minimum range of 12” and a crew of 4 models.  Most people don’t believe it fits in with the Bretonnian image, but it is a good change from the ordinary.  People will often complain that something is unfluffy and shouldn’t be in the army list, but then they complain when they see an army that is the way Bretonnia is supposed to be played, a vast majority of knights.

Next installment will be last, discussing tactics and such.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

Quote
"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline frankthetank

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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #27 on: September 1, 2005, 11:20:10 AM »
where the orges ?

Offline Rasmus

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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #28 on: September 1, 2005, 03:39:38 PM »
Noone has bothered to write them up. If you do it I will gladly include them.

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Offline Cames99

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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2008, 10:04:27 AM »
The Baron speaks the truth about all the Bretonians except for the yeomen in my opinion.

They are a very cheap unit of mounted horse archers in my opinion and if you need something to draw attention and/or fire away from the knights then the opponent may mistake these guys for important enemies. Especially if your playing people that don't know about Bretonnia

Offline Tanuvein

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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2009, 10:02:59 PM »
The article in here explains the DE as expensive and mostly metal. The post however is about 4 years old - so does this still stand true? Based on some threads I read in the DEldar forum, they are mostly plastic now (though I may have misunderstood).
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Offline Changeyname

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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2009, 06:00:07 AM »
No, you'd be right in thinking the majority are still metal im afraid

all of the characters, all but one of the five special choices and both rare choices are still metal
they only have four plastic units, three of which are core (and one of which is the same kit with different options)
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Offline Elemental_Elf

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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #32 on: August 3, 2009, 05:04:52 AM »
How up to date is the information in this thread?

Offline Changeyname

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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #33 on: August 3, 2009, 05:18:37 AM »
not very, if you look at the dates they were posted the actual reviews were done over 4 years ago

that means that a good third of the books have now been redone, not to mention i think a new edition of the rule book (pretty sure that was summer '06)

plus a new army entirely has been added (daemons)

all in all, you'd be best looking into the army specific boards, i think they have a bit more up to date and in depth info on the armies
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Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #34 on: August 3, 2009, 09:26:38 AM »
Somewhat yes, but even the stickies in the army-specific boards are getting a bit dated by now. One of the many projects I keep trying to get done in between bouts of not getting my army finished for the 8th 40KO tournament is updating the ones I know anything about (so Dwarfs then. And maybe one or two others)
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Offline Awfully Dandy

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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #35 on: August 3, 2009, 09:53:06 AM »
It still mentions BoC and HoC mixing, hehehe

Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #36 on: August 3, 2009, 09:54:26 AM »
Exactly, it be ooooooold.

I know I'm not staff in these here parts, but I think it's safe to say that modly appreciation and possibly sexy sexy custom titles would be doled out to those who put their rears in gear and produced an updated run-down for any armies they feel comfortable discussing at length
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Offline Awfully Dandy

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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #37 on: August 3, 2009, 12:58:28 PM »
I play BoC so I would do the writeup if anyone is interested.

Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #38 on: August 3, 2009, 01:10:47 PM »
Then do so, consider me interested at the least.
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Offline Awfully Dandy

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Re: Playing or Picking an Army: General Help *READ BEFORE POSTING*
« Reply #39 on: August 3, 2009, 04:23:38 PM »
Will do but will probaly be tommorrow before I post it.

 


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