Topic: 1000 Ork Hordeish armylist

[tzeentchling]

So, with the new Codex out, I decided to try my hand at making a swarm list, something I haven't really played before.  Not sure if it'd actually get made (time and money are against me), but if I were to play them this is probably the list I'd use:

Big Mek, Kustom Force Field, 'eavy armor, burna - 110
12 Lootas - 180
20 Shoota Boyz, 2 big shootas - 130
20 Slugga Boyz, 2 Rokkits, Nob, power klaw, bosspole - 180
20 Slugga Boyz, 2 Rokkits, Nob, power klaw, bosspole - 180
15 Stormboyz, Nob, power klaw, bosspole - 220

It's a good 88 models at 1000 points.  There's a decent amount of speed in the Stormboyz, whose job it will be to run forward and tie my opponent's firebase up while the boyz slog it out, hopefully charging by turn two or three.  The Mek will walk along them near the front line with his KFF giving some protection, and with his Burna he can actually be useful in close combat, especially in 1000 point games.  The Lootas, of course, take out tanks and hard targets.  I went for the 2-1 ratio of Sluggas to Shootas primarily because of the Klaws - in Army Builder, at least in the newest release, they've made it so that Shoota Nobs can't take Power Klaws, unfortunately, so I'm stuck with Slugga Boyz and the corresponding Nob.  It's a valid RAW interpretation, so I'm not complaining (too much).

What do you think of the list?  Does it meet the goals of a successful swarm list, and might it be successful?

[Gutstikk]

For 1k it's not bad, and could work, but there's an awful lot of points tied up in storm boyz. If you are stuck on a hoard list it would do quite well as far as hoard lists go, just be sure to fire those rokkits at the same target [unless the first squad kills the target!].

I find with Sluggas the rokkits are almost an unhealthy distraction though. If you were willing to part with the rokkits [and there's no reason why you should], and lose 5 stormboyz [makes them susceptible to LD tests but also makes them far easier to hide effectively], you would net yourself 100pts. With those points, you could add:

a deff dred with 2 rokkits and riggas [as troops! and only loses 2 rokkits total, and 1 extra scoring unit],

or 2 kans with grotzookas and riggas [more vulnerable, less AT, but more CC power and 2 extra scoring units]

Either of these also benefit from the KFF, and from personal experience a single deff dred is actually quite excellent [especially as troops!]. Killa Kans have been good scoring units for me but I have yet to actually fire the guns [they've always been out of LOS!]. Dreds being troops lets you position them much later, and therefore more effectively, than the Kans.

[tzeentchling]

I worry that dropping the Stormboyz down to 10 means they won't be as effective in close combat.  Other than that, I'd not feel too bad about it.  I could also drop two Lootas to get 30 points, and some stuff from the Mek if need be, before I drop the Rokkits, but I don't know if I'd want to put in the Dreads or Kans.  I'm staying away from vehicles at the moment just because.  I might look into doing the above plus dropping the Rokkits and putting in instead Tankbustas, which should be really good at 1000 points with few vehicles to worry about, or perhaps Kommandos to help the Stormboyz out (in theory).

[Kiefatar]

I think your sluggas are fine, your storm boyz are fine, your Mek is fine, and even the shootas are ok.

I don't like the lootas though... don't know why, maybe as it's the only real shooting element, it just stands out, and it ends up being a lot of points for a one trick pony... that will die quickly or possibly rendered inert.

I think I would rather see either either Rokkit or Buzzsaw, (or both) Deff Koptas instead. They can operate as anti-tank, give you a bit more mobility, and can tie up even more units giving you those precious turns to advance without getting shot up. Rokkit buggies could also fit the bill and screen your boyz in the process.

[tzeentchling]

Alright, how about this change:

Big Mek, KFF - 85
10 Lootas - 150
10 Tankbustas, bomb squig, two tankhammers - 155
20 Shootas, 2 big shootas - 130
20 Sluggas, Nob, PK, bosspole - 160
20 Sluggas, Nob, PK, bosspole - 160
10 Stormboyz, Nob, PK, bosspole - 160

Spreads out some shooting, gives me two dedicated heavy shooting units in the Tankbustas and Lootas, with still 3 good close combat units.  The Stormboyz have to do a significant amount of damage on the charge, though, or else they'll just fall apart and not do their job.  A bit leery of having all my Rokkits in one squad, but Tankbustas look fun.... I dunno about Deff Koptas, I suppose they'd help the Stormboyz, and give me some more mobility, but I'm not sold on them.  I want to keep the Lootas, mainly cause they look cool and because people are scared of them (for justifiable reasons!).

[4084595657]

I think thats a decent list right there, all i can think to talk about is tactics. When you run your boyz into close combat just try and charge the same target, outnumbering is good but charging is even better. Try and keep the lootas and Tankbusters out of line of fire etc...

One thing: You COULD try and get a trukk with a boarding plank, stick the tankbustas in it. Drive around the board destorying enemy tanks (preferably stationary tanks) with a tankhammer. Then once all the armor is gone hop out and focus your fire on infantry. This enables the trukk for suicide attacks (fun and occasionally useful), you could tank shock infantry into troops and push them towards your close combat units or away from your shooty units.

*WARNING RISKY TACTIC ALERT*

If your very desperate you can try to get it destroyed, because on the trukk destruction table you can possibly make it explode into enemy unis, which is great for killing light infantry. But on the other hand you could just explode in a horrible mess.

[Gutstikk]

Big Mek, KFF - 85
10 Lootas - 150
10 Tankbustas, bomb squig, two tankhammers - 155
20 Shootas, 2 big shootas - 130
20 Sluggas, Nob, PK, bosspole - 160
20 Sluggas, Nob, PK, bosspole - 160
10 Stormboyz, Nob, PK, bosspole - 160

This I like much better. Now your sluggas are free to Waaagh!!! and don't have to choose between shooting tanks or charging infantry. The Tankbustas do what the Lootas don't and vice-versa. Plus, the stormboyz now are a fast extra powerfist for any unit that happens to need it. Don't worry about smaller size - the trade-off is that while you had more models before, more were likely to die. Now you have less models, but they will be likely to take less fire, and after the charge it is typically the Nob that does all the work anyways. A nice, simple and brutal list. Gork would be proud.

BTW - bombsquigs are better than anything else you can give a unit of Tankbustas, period. This is because they do not need LOS to work, and can be fired from behind LOS-blocking terrain, keeping the whole unit safe, and because one bombsquig is about as effective at tank-killing as 3 tankbustas at 1/3 the cost [so, on a point-by-point basis, bombsquigs are 9 times as effective at killing tanks!]. If you lost one tankbusta to add 2 bombsquigs you would never notice or regret it, and the stormboyz can deploy on the same flank to run interference.

[Zaeon]

I think thats a decent list right there, all i can think to talk about is tactics. When you run your boyz into close combat just try and charge the same target, outnumbering is good but charging is even better. Try and keep the lootas and Tankbusters out of line of fire etc...

One thing: You COULD try and get a trukk with a boarding plank, stick the tankbustas in it. Drive around the board destorying enemy tanks (preferably stationary tanks) with a tankhammer. Then once all the armor is gone hop out and focus your fire on infantry. This enables the trukk for suicide attacks (fun and occasionally useful), you could tank shock infantry into troops and push them towards your close combat units or away from your shooty units.

*WARNING RISKY TACTIC ALERT*

If your very desperate you can try to get it destroyed, because on the trukk destruction table you can possibly make it explode into enemy unis, which is great for killing light infantry. But on the other hand you could just explode in a horrible mess.

I wan't aware that tankbustas could get a trukk

[4084595657]

After a quick flick through the codex i couldn't find anything saying they cannot. But correct me if  i am wrong

[Gutstikk]

Okay - works like this. Unit Entries for units that can select dedicated transports specify which dedicated transports those squads can take. So you will notice in the entries for Nobs and Ork Boyz squads, the Boyz may select a wartrukk and the Nobs may select a wartrukk or battlewagon as a dedicated transport.

Tankbustas have no such option listed and so may not select a dedicated transport. Therefore, it may be worth selecting a Looted Wagon or a Battlewagon for them to ride in.

[Zaeon]

Gutstikk is correct

[CherryMan]

mec.
custom force field.

30 shoota boyz
3 rokkits

30 shoota boyz
3 rokkits

30 slugga boyz
1 big choppa nob

30 slugga boyz
1 big choppa nob

30 grotts
3 runt herds

now thats a horde army
151 models in 1k army , average cost of 6.6 per model.
true i stepped over with a few points but its easily fixed with downing the grots to like 29 (as u only need 2 runtheards by then) saving up 13 points just like that. 6 rokkits, even when manned by orks will do something, and once u hit cc with this green tide there will be no stopping them. I'm sad thou that the Grots have bean reduced to nothingness (and anyone who have bought 20+ blisters of grots from GW will agree with me hehe). now they are barely a cheep unit, with the silly "need a runtheard for every 10th grot" rule. and the loss of a great cover save rule, but still a bit cheaper than a boyz unit.

sorry if i completely messed up you're idea of a horde´ish army, but to be frank i preferred you're one better. U should diss the hole "horde" style, and get another unit of stormboyz, adding boss zagstruk, would make a terrible mess of things

[tzeentchling]

Um, thanks for the list suggestion, but I'd suggest posting a list like this in a separate thread if you wanted comments on it.  I know that my army isn't pure horde like the list you posted, but that's why it's "horde-ish."  I wanted a list with a good amount of bodies, but also reasonable upgrades and such with decent shooting, and that cuts into numbers.  Honestly, with Ork shooting, having only 6 rokkits to take on any tough targets in the opponent's army really just isn't enough, especially without any powerklaws.  90+ models is still a horde for 1000 points, especially when facing Marine armies of 20-30.

[Kiefatar]

People always overestimate orks versus high quality infantry like MEQs. Without the PK Nobs, your not likely to score that many casualties once the dice have been rolled, regardless of what the odds are saying.

If your not getting the charge, than your odds are even worse, and few situations take into account the fact that your almost never going to get all 30 boyz into the kill zone or that your going to have all of them before your opponent strikes (not to mention any lost to shooting on the way in).

Still, it's a valid strategy, even if your only wearing them down by attrition, but it has it's flaws none the less.

[CherryMan]

Um, thanks for the list suggestion, but I'd suggest posting a list like this in a separate thread if you wanted comments on it.  I know that my army isn't pure horde like the list you posted, but that's why it's "horde-ish."  I wanted a list with a good amount of bodies, but also reasonable upgrades and such with decent shooting, and that cuts into numbers.  Honestly, with Ork shooting, having only 6 rokkits to take on any tough targets in the opponent's army really just isn't enough, especially without any powerklaws.  90+ models is still a horde for 1000 points, especially when facing Marine armies of 20-30.

whoo, take it easy tzeentchling, not trying to step on any toes. Just comming with some suggestions and my thoughts of what i find a "horde" styled army of orks looks like. But as i said, I liked your list better, mainly because of the more tactical options one have during the turn.  The point of my horde swamp-em tactics is simply this, he wont have the firepower to shoot down everything, its that simple. And more than often ill have some good´ol cover to run behind before breaking in to his lines.

Got one concern in the list u wrote thou, and its the speed of the stormboys. I personally think, as this is the only speedy unit in the list u wrote, that the speed can backfire on you. Being first to the fight might be good, but not if you find yourself allone and outgunned. Even thou i can see this is a unit meant to either take out small units of heavy fire power, like devastator's and other weapon support units. Or a unit simply meant to tie up front line units so other support fire units of the enemy cannot fire thou the fight on to the advancing green horde. True it will be a amazing unit facing a army with no real cc capability's, but if up against a good solid MEC list, I think they will be the first to the fight, and the first to die. perhaps die a bit too fast for my taste (true orks are supposed to die like flies, but not before they have done their duty and killed something of greater value). Just a thought thou, so no intentions in breaking you're mood or something. But as i said in my earlier post, id try to squeeze in a nother unit of these bad boys and equip one of them with boss zagstruk, think they could do some serious damage and play a more vital roll in the battle.

[Gutstikk]

Actually, Stormboys are an excellent choice for "second into the fight" duties. The horde units swamp enemy positions and once locked into combat, by the end of the 2nd round you ought to know which of your horde squads need help. That's when you toss in the stormboys, who have the speed to get there in a moment's notice. This brings a bunch of extra charge attacks plus a second powerfist into a fray that isn't going well, and can quickly turn the tide.

A KFF easily makes 60 footslogging boys the equal of 110 without a KFF [I've tried both!], because the cover save comes with you and you don't have to worry about getting slowed down by difficult terrain. Then, with the tankbustas able to advance and offer support, while the Lootas provide fire support, the Boys have an even better chance of arriving intact. Finally, the stormboyz will turn whichever combats need turning while the ones that are going well can be let alone.

This list as posted by Tzeentchling:

Big Mek, KFF - 85
10 Lootas - 150
10 Tankbustas, bomb squig, two tankhammers - 155
20 Shootas, 2 big shootas - 130
20 Sluggas, Nob, PK, bosspole - 160
20 Sluggas, Nob, PK, bosspole - 160
10 Stormboyz, Nob, PK, bosspole - 160

...is actually quite excellent as a horde force.

[EngeKomkommer]

After a quick flick through the codex i couldn't find anything saying they cannot. But correct me if  i am wrong

Doesn't say they do... so they can't. Only Nobz, Meganobz and boyz can have a trukk.

[4084595657]

ok thanks for clearing that up for me