News: No news is good news...

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: Thoughts on Chaos Knights?  (Read 1338 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Wyddr

  • Author Eminence: Hereticus Liber Daemonica | Fio'shas Shi
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5182
  • Country: us
    • My blog about SF/F stuff
  • Armies: Daemons, Imperial Fists, Tau, Ksons, Vostroyans
Thoughts on Chaos Knights?
« on: April 4, 2022, 01:10:05 PM »
So, that latest reveal has gotten me thinking long and hard about starting a Chaos Knights army. Now, I know that the new codex will change a lot of the balance in the army and how good it is and what to take and so on, so I'm not looking for strategic or tactical advice. I have three questions:

1) Is it fun to play Knights (Chaos or otherwise). Like, if I have only 4-5 models on the board, is it going to be an interesting and challenging game?

2) Will my opponent have fun? Like, is playing against pure Knights a good time, or is it a dreadful slog where either you win immediately or get hopelessly stomped?

3) I have a small gaming group (there are 4 of us), so how badly will fielding a Knights army screw with the tiny little metagame we have going (I play against Orks, Sisters, Craftworlders, Iron Hands, and AdMech)? If my opponents tailor their lists to beat me, is that to be expected, or does that ruin the calculus of running a pure Knights list?

Any advice you have playing with or against pure Knights is appreciated.

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

  • Grand Master of the Deathwing | Oh the lolmanity! | 40kOnline's Care Bear of LOL!
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11346
  • Country: ca
  • We were murderers first, last, and always!
  • Armies: Dark Angels, Custodes, Knights, Night Lords
Re: Thoughts on Chaos Knights?
« Reply #1 on: April 5, 2022, 09:45:56 AM »
It's hard to say what the experience will be playing with the new knights as knights are in a weird place right now.  The most successful knight list I've seen was someone running 14 Armiger class knights.  The mid-range knights are too easily brought down by concentrated fire and are just such huge fire magnets that you will likely lose one a turn (as the rules currently stand), which is a huge loss.

But to answer your questions:

1a)  Is it going to be fun?  I've always enjoyed playing with my big stompy boys, even if the game doesn't go well because "hehehehe knight goes STOMP!!!"
1b)  Is it going to be an interesting and challenging game?  Yes, because of the challenge you will have due to a smaller model count.  Your guys put out a crap-tonne of pain, but even then it isn't a whole lot so you are going to have a good fight on your hands

2)  This will all come down to the list your opponent builds.  If they build a list that primarily focuses on anti-infantry because they haven't had to face armour in a long time, then they aren't going to have a good time.  If they built a well rounded list, it'll be a good fight.  If they built a list designed to beslubber up armour... well... at least you will be able to get multiple games in in a single evening!

3)  It'll definitely throw a wrench in to the meta, that's for sure.  I don't think any of those factions will necessarily struggle with knights, but as I mentioned before it will come down to how they build their lists.  Worst comes to worse, they can always play the objective.  Thankfully, even a grot can potentially damage a knight.  Long gone are the days when you needed a minimum of strength 6 to damage a knight.
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

Quote
"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline Wyddr

  • Author Eminence: Hereticus Liber Daemonica | Fio'shas Shi
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5182
  • Country: us
    • My blog about SF/F stuff
  • Armies: Daemons, Imperial Fists, Tau, Ksons, Vostroyans
Re: Thoughts on Chaos Knights?
« Reply #2 on: April 5, 2022, 10:35:59 AM »
Yeah, my concern about them tailoring will be pretty well-founded, then. If I do this, I might have to implement a "I don't tell you what I'm playing" thing, but that might interfere with some of the more narrative stuff we've done in the past.

Good to know they can be fun and tactically challenging to play. Hopefully the new book cuts down on the damage a tailored list can do somewhat. This army, though, has got to be a be-atch to balance well and we all know that GW doesn't do a great job at that out of the gate.

But the models....soooo pretty.

Offline Lord of Winter and War

  • The Cause of Diabetes -Captain- Necrontyr Immortal - KoN Veteran - Master of All Diplomacy | Wi-Fi Nomad |
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8901
  • Country: ca
  • Armies: Harlequins, Spiderfang, Bonereapers, Space Wolves
Re: Thoughts on Chaos Knights?
« Reply #3 on: April 5, 2022, 10:51:56 AM »
I play chaos knights, I run 8 models in my army.

I find they are fun to play, but the games are basically decided turn 1.

If my opponent can kill 1 or 2 of my knights or armigers turn 1, I will probably loose, if they can't, I usually win.

Anyone with transhuman (dark angels for example) are really hard, as needing to wound on 4's sucks, and folks with lots of inv saves are tough too.

I find playing the mission isn't too hard  especially as wardogs are obsec.

I run a tyrant, desacrator, and 6 wardogs in my army, with 85 Reinforcement Points for summoning demons.

I've played vs grey knights, necrons, horde and elite tyranids, space marines with my knights, and only the dark angels really caused me a lot of trouble.

Haven't played against any of the meta boogeyman  armies, mostly due to me not having opportunities to do so.
Harlequin Army Blog

That's not blatant, this is blatant: I'm super happy that I'm playing Austria, the greatest nation in all of Diplomacy!

Azore of Austria

Offline Roboknee77

  • Ork Boy
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 228
  • Country: us
  • Armies: Orks, Sisters
Re: Thoughts on Chaos Knights?
« Reply #4 on: April 5, 2022, 11:53:09 AM »
As one of the opponents to the possible Chaos Knights, my Boyz say, "Bring 'em on!"    ;D

After the one game I played against Thousand Sons this edition, I realize basic Boyz don't cut it and I will have to lean into things like Rokkits, Mega-Kannons, and/or Lootas/Flash Gitz to do damage.  Which, while not tailored for Knights, would be effective against Knights.  Either way, lots of Dakka and lots of Big Booms will make me happy.

As for Sisters, I'm trying to build a well rounded list and I know they have some tricks that can help them against Knights.  I just don't have enough experience using them yet to know what those.  :D

Offline Wyddr

  • Author Eminence: Hereticus Liber Daemonica | Fio'shas Shi
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5182
  • Country: us
    • My blog about SF/F stuff
  • Armies: Daemons, Imperial Fists, Tau, Ksons, Vostroyans
Re: Thoughts on Chaos Knights?
« Reply #5 on: April 5, 2022, 01:01:58 PM »
I play chaos knights, I run 8 models in my army.

I find they are fun to play, but the games are basically decided turn 1.

If my opponent can kill 1 or 2 of my knights or armigers turn 1, I will probably loose, if they can't, I usually win.

Hmmmm...on the face of it, this doesn't sound great. Then again, I've basically found almost all my 9th edition games are decided by Turn 2, anyway, so I'm not sure how big a change this is. And, of course, the new book may change this calculus, anyway. I'm glad to hear they're fun--that's the main thing!

As one of the opponents to the possible Chaos Knights, my Boyz say, "Bring 'em on!"    ;D

After the one game I played against Thousand Sons this edition, I realize basic Boyz don't cut it and I will have to lean into things like Rokkits, Mega-Kannons, and/or Lootas/Flash Gitz to do damage.  Which, while not tailored for Knights, would be effective against Knights.  Either way, lots of Dakka and lots of Big Booms will make me happy.

As for Sisters, I'm trying to build a well rounded list and I know they have some tricks that can help them against Knights.  I just don't have enough experience using them yet to know what those.  :D

This is good to hear! I don't want to invest all that money + time just for it to be a drag to play against (remember 8th edition Deathwatch? <shudder>).

Anyway, this won't happen until the new book drops. Going to see if I can grab the army deal, go from there. Will continue to update Ksons and maybe some Tau in the meantime.

Offline Lord of Winter and War

  • The Cause of Diabetes -Captain- Necrontyr Immortal - KoN Veteran - Master of All Diplomacy | Wi-Fi Nomad |
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8901
  • Country: ca
  • Armies: Harlequins, Spiderfang, Bonereapers, Space Wolves
Re: Thoughts on Chaos Knights?
« Reply #6 on: April 5, 2022, 01:23:57 PM »
Knights are a skewed army. Either folks can deal with them, or they can. My games with knights or against them are not usually close games.

But,  they are an easy army to play, and not terribly complicated. It's very nice to just move a handful of models around the table, and they are very forgiving.

Plus, as they are chaos characters, you can put points aside and summon demons, which is fun.
Harlequin Army Blog

That's not blatant, this is blatant: I'm super happy that I'm playing Austria, the greatest nation in all of Diplomacy!

Azore of Austria

Offline Roboknee77

  • Ork Boy
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 228
  • Country: us
  • Armies: Orks, Sisters
Re: Thoughts on Chaos Knights?
« Reply #7 on: April 5, 2022, 01:56:39 PM »
This is good to hear! I don't want to invest all that money + time just for it to be a drag to play against (remember 8th edition Deathwatch? <shudder>).

I had forgotten about it until now, thanks.  :D  I got one good game in against them and then they wrecked my *bleep*.  But they did what they do in the lore, wreck Xenos.

I just checked out the models, and yeah, they look sweet.  I may have to invest in a Morkanaut, or possibly a Gorkanaut, to go up against them.

Offline Wyddr

  • Author Eminence: Hereticus Liber Daemonica | Fio'shas Shi
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5182
  • Country: us
    • My blog about SF/F stuff
  • Armies: Daemons, Imperial Fists, Tau, Ksons, Vostroyans
Re: Thoughts on Chaos Knights?
« Reply #8 on: April 5, 2022, 07:27:23 PM »
Quote
I just checked out the models, and yeah, they look sweet.  I may have to invest in a Morkanaut, or possibly a Gorkanaut, to go up against them.

Ooooo! Giant robot throwdown!

Offline Grizzlykin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 846
  • Country: fr
  • Run little eldar, run! ... And KILL THEM ALL !
  • Armies: Eldars, Tau, Necrons
Re: Thoughts on Chaos Knights?
« Reply #9 on: May 8, 2022, 08:06:31 PM »
Heyo, I might be fairly late to the party on that one and I don't have much experience, but I've played a game or two against knight and the last one was a lot of fun. I played pre codex eldars and fought against a assassin/Knight list, might be because it was the first game in 1or2 years, but even if my foot dars got blasted to pieces it was a lot of fun.

I'm probably playing against an other sililar list soon and this time I will build a list with a bit more of a resistant and armor punch approach, so I don't get blasted to pieces turn 1 the same way.

So far my take is, is it fun to play against? Yes defenetly. Even if you get blown to kingdom come, the simple act of felling one of those monstrous giants one way or an other is immensely satisfying. That said I am defenetly not going to try to build a list just to deal with knights, I feel like that's not fair to the opponent and to the game in general. The game for me is more intresting with a varied army and a cool looking line-up that looks like something a bataillons might have fielded had they try to prepare for a normal varied engagement from the enemy. Plus if you wanna be playing some narrative game you can always try to balance the game differently, look at power levels or arbitrary adjustment maybe?

Is it going to break the meta? Yup, probably, but that might just force people to change their list a bit and try new unit they have not before. You never know, they might like it ^^

Anyway the new codex is there soon after all, so have fun every one :D
The Grizzly's Arvandor Craftworld!

Quote from: Cavalier
ALL HAIL THE TORNADO! The legend is REBORN.

Quote from: Alienscar
The forum member so nice that even when he is MIA he still gets two votes for being the nicest member

Offline Wyddr

  • Author Eminence: Hereticus Liber Daemonica | Fio'shas Shi
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5182
  • Country: us
    • My blog about SF/F stuff
  • Armies: Daemons, Imperial Fists, Tau, Ksons, Vostroyans
Re: Thoughts on Chaos Knights?
« Reply #10 on: May 9, 2022, 08:44:25 AM »
Thanks, Grizzlykin!

I have pre-ordered the army starter, so it's happening sooner or later. I'm excited to see what the new codex can do and I think it will be an interesting challenge, fielding an army of only 3-6 models or whatever. I'm looking forward to it!

Offline Grizzlykin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 846
  • Country: fr
  • Run little eldar, run! ... And KILL THEM ALL !
  • Armies: Eldars, Tau, Necrons
Re: Thoughts on Chaos Knights?
« Reply #11 on: May 9, 2022, 12:25:36 PM »
The friend that ik ów playing them had a feeling the problem will mostly be invu saves. Some of the guns are naaaaaasty but they suffer from no invul bypass mechanics, I'm curious what you think of them once you have them. Let us know how it goes, I'm really curious if their are thing i can learn from your experience for me to face IK.
The Grizzly's Arvandor Craftworld!

Quote from: Cavalier
ALL HAIL THE TORNADO! The legend is REBORN.

Quote from: Alienscar
The forum member so nice that even when he is MIA he still gets two votes for being the nicest member

 


Powered by EzPortal