Topic: *@1500@* nEcRoN lIsT ~~bang bang

[rIzA]

Im a newbie at necrons, but heres my list
HQ
Lord
destroyer body
Res Orb
170
Elites
10 Flayed Ones
180
Troops
10 warriors
10 warriors
10 warriors
10 warriors
720
FA
3 Destroyers
150
7 scarabs
84
HS
Heavy Destroyer
65
Heavy Destroyer
65
Heavy Destroyer
65
Total 1499

ill take all comments

[Halfpast_Yellow]

Careful with the 3 destroyers. If they are all knocked down in one go, no WBBing. Making that a full size unit would help keep them alive (and give you more firepower). You have four groups of warriors and flayed ones, 50 all together, that's quite a lot (for your points value). You could get rid of one group of 10 warriors, and use that 180 points for one or two extra destroyers, and stick any left over points back into the other warrior squads, so you end up with 12 12 10 warriors or 12 12 12. Jut a few extra warriors over the minimum and your squads perform much better in my experience...

[Pekhov]

I agree with yellow on adding more destroyers.  You could even use the points to buy another unit of 3 destroyers and keep them in close proximity so you'll get your WBB rolls if a unit is wiped out in one turn.

[Killswitch]

My advice is to first drop the flayed ones (I never liked them). The theme of necron is mid-range shooting and mobility, so capitalize on it. If you're saying you need flayed ones to protect you from CC...well....never worked out for me as they are just not as good as the other CC specialize units that you'll be facing, and they  move quite slowly.

Second, immortals. I hasn't yet seen any necron players who doesn't field them. T5 with a 24inch assault2 weapon can pack a punch. They also won't be instant killed by most weapons (aside from raillgun and venom cannon...etc), so you don't need to keep them near to a lord.

Third, take out the destroyer body...what do you want your lord to do? Give it a T6 when your opponent can't single you out because you're an IC? Fly around the field with rezorb to rez your warriors? If that's the case, I would had just shoot those warriors that are not in the coverage of rez orb. 90% of the time my lord does not see combat...the most he does is firing his staff behind the warrior squad. Take VOD instead as it can offer you some great mobility if used correctly. If you wanted coverage for your warriors, I usually takes only 2 unit of warriors, and then like them up in the center in a line formation (2 inch apart if there's a battlecanon in the game) and the lord behind them, but enough to cover both unit with rez orb. Then at the last few turns or when there are very little S8 weapons around, I'll start VODing them

Fourth, more destroyers. You either play at least 5, or none at all. 3 gets killed too fast, but with 5, you stand a better chance of surviving a return fire and thus, gets your WBB.

Try a few games first, then when you are comfortable using necron, maybe you can start thinking about a monolith. My tactic with necron is always flank shift. On my deployment I deploy most my units near the center, leaning towards one flank. My destroyers can be deployed on the flank that I'm leaning towards too. This would usually caused the opponents to deploy on one side as well to engage my forces. Then when the game starts, I would slowly shift them to another flank, with the help of monolith and the mobility of destroyers so that I can focus my firepower on the weaker side of my opponent's army. It worked out quite well for me. Hope these are useful.

[Halfpast_Yellow]

Flayed ones can be okay. I can see how they wouldn't work ideally with your fast/teleportation tactics, but in the above list which has no teleportation, they can run interference well along with the scarabs against assaulty armies, and infiltrate along with turboboosting scarabs against shooting armies. They are cheap by necron standards.

I hear you with immortals, but I'd say either one or the other when it comes to them and destroyers. Like Pekhov said even another group of 3 destroyers would work well.

You're right about the destroyer body. With the big core of warriors, a supporting Lord on foot is probably better. I'd give him a gaze of flame too...half the price and achieves the same as a destroyer body, it makes your lord more survivable by reducing charging enemies attacks. I've even held up well against unsupported genestealers when my lords in a group of warriors helping them recieve the charge.

[Killswitch]

Guess we uses different doctorine in our necron army. I've always fielded 8-9 immortals and 5 destroyers, only rezorb on my lord, a core of 20 war, 2 HD, 6 scarab, 1 monolith. Stratagy is to DS monolith if there's a lot of S9/S10 weapons, and if not, just deploy at center. Then I would use monolith to shift flank, Immortals to hold the line (teleport out with monolith if CC troops moving close), scarabs tank hunting if there's one, if not then hold the opponent's CC/heavy weapon troops. HD takes out high save troops (usually marines/termies) and light vehicle. Immortals and destroyers as firesupport. I'll usually concerntrate on taking out AP3 weapons first, and then high S weapons. Once there's no more AP3 weapons, I can pretty much dominate the game. Monolith will be blocking assault routes and granting the extra WBB roll. Most of the games that I've played so far, I've only lost a few necron models (besides scarabs, which usually got wiped). This is my stratagy

[Halfpast_Yellow]

Your strategy is good and sound and you've put it really succinctly. I guess you could call it different doctrines. I don't think Necrons are as cookie-cutter as everyone says, there are a few ways to mix and play with your units to get results 

[Killswitch]

I would say that they are an easy army to learn how to play with....but hard to master.

[TheGreatAvatar]

Instead of taking a unit of five destroyers, take two units of three.  Keep the units together.  This provides more flexable firing options plus helps with WBB rolls.  Your opponent has to dedicate at least TWO units of fire power to eliminate your destroyers since BOTH units must be destroyed before they all can't get their WBB rolls.

I'd drop the Heavy Destroyers.  I haven't seen a need to use them and for the points I just don't think their worth it.

[Killswitch]

Heavy Destroyers are sort of like an insurance of some sort. Given the total lack of AP3 weapons in necron, Heavy Destroyers could help a lot with exposed 3+save and against light vehicle. Have 2 HD floating nearby, you're forcing your opponent to rethink about moving their tanks/marines into the open. Their high str also means they are the only one that can hurt high T and instant kill some T4 IC. It's not a winning peice, but rather more of a support that I'll definately take for a balanced army list since you won't know what will you be facing.

[Waaagh?]

The problem with them is, that taking only a few means most probably no We'll be back, and HD's aren't very survivable for their point cost. Against most targets, normal destroyers are better. When you have both normal and heavy destroyers, use the normal ones for 4+ save units, and heavy tanks. Use the HD's on lighter tanks. This is because when shooting a Land Raider with a HD, you need a 3 to hit, and a 5 to glance, and a 6 to penetrate. Doing the same with the regular (FA) destroyer, you need a 3 to hit, and a 6 to glance, but... you have 3 shots instead of just one. Normal destroyers are also cheaper, so you can take more of them for the same amount of points. I'd say: only use HD's for shooting Greater Daemons, IC's wandering alone and maybe Terminators... at most other jobs normal destroyers are just as good, if not better.

[Halfpast_Yellow]

The thing is, Heavy destroyers provide something that the rest of the army doesn't. High strength AP2 weapons. Sure if you must pick one choice, pick normal destroyers. But if you can run both, it's better to do that than just have a whackload of one type. Tactical flexibility.

[OMGOOSES]

Personally I don't like to throw in 1 or 2 random units that won't have a likelyhood of surviving... either a full squad, or not at all.

But that's me.

[Unseen57]

1500 and no monolith?!?!

[OMGOOSES]

Unseen has a point...

[Samdan]

He does?  Because I sure as hell don't see one.  He needs a monolith because he's a necron player?  Sorry, I don't see the argument here.

So, I think I'll put a rest to that, and move on to the list.  I don't feel like reading every single comment made, but I have the general gist: less HD, more D, axe the FO, etc.

Lets start with destroyers.  Three HD's are extremely hard to kill without diverting a significant amount of firepower towards them.  Put them about 5" from each other, nothing will hit more than one of them, except a Talos, unless it hits everything along a straight line.  5" is enough for WBB range, and with clever positioning, you can't deny the WBB without killing all three of them.  Your destroyer unit is fine as is, since finding the points for more would be pretty hard.  The one suggestion I would make would be to drop 4 warriors, consolidating into three units of 12, and two flayed ones (they are often overlooked for their lack of shooting), then get two tomb spyders.  You would be at 1501 points, and putting a spyder by the destroyers and heavy destroyers would make it damned impossible to kill them with the aid of that destroyer lord of yours.

Kudos on the flayed ones and scarabs, they are both highly underrated.  True, scarabs will do next to nothing most likely, but they cost nothing too.  They are amazing for keeping those assault units away from you.  They are small, but with 3 wounds each, you wouldn't believe how long they live.  Flayed Ones are cool, because everybody thinks necrons = shooting only.  I have had units of flayed ones take out units of terminators.  They are much better than warriors usually, since they can infiltrate or deep strike, and are more useable in assaults.

Also, feeback from you, rIzA, would be great.

[TheGreatAvatar]

Lets start with destroyers.  Three HD's are extremely hard to kill without diverting a significant amount of firepower towards them.

Not true.  Granted, T5 is hard to down but not extremely hard to kill.  There are a lot of AP3 weapons out there fielded by a large number of armies.

  Put them about 5" from each other, nothing will hit more than one of them, except a Talos, unless it hits everything along a straight line.  5" is enough for WBB range, and with clever positioning, you can't deny the WBB without killing all three of them.

Except that the unit is now out of coherency.  Bikes get at most a 4" spread between models.  And, depending on how the models are down, one WILL be out of range  of WBB.

A full unit of Destroyers are still at risk.  It better to have two units of three than one unit of five.

[quote
  Your destroyer unit is fine as is, since finding the points for more would be pretty hard.  The one suggestion I would make would be to drop 4 warriors, consolidating into three units of 12, and two flayed ones (they are often overlooked for their lack of shooting), then get two tomb spyders.  You would be at 1501 points, and putting a spyder by the destroyers and heavy destroyers would make it damned impossible to kill them with the aid of that destroyer lord of yours.
[/quote]
The Spyders will not help a destroyed Destroyer unit.  They might help the HDestroyers though.  The only problem with the Spyders is they only have a six inch movement.  This will severely limit your Destroyers movement if you keep them near the Spyder.

[Samdan]

Except that the unit is now out of coherency.  Bikes get at most a 4" spread between models.  And, depending on how the models are down, one WILL be out of range  of WBB.

Who said they were one unit?  rIzA has three units of a single HD each.

The Spyders will not help a destroyed Destroyer unit.  They might help the HDestroyers though.  The only problem with the Spyders is they only have a six inch movement.  This will severely limit your Destroyers movement if you keep them near the Spyder.

You're right, sorry about that.  At 1:45 in the morning, I'm not exactly at my best.

In that case, I would recommend only one spyder, and use the leftover points to get another destroyer, putting you at 1496 points.