Author Topic: Dire Avengers? (Read 5132 times)

The Orange · « **Reply #20 on:** December 21, 2004, 04:52:25 PM »

Quote from: Warlawk on December 18, 2004, 04:05:08 AM

awesome stats, nice weapon, reroll misses in both shooting and CC, 3+ invulnerable save...... he is what all the other pheonix lords SHOULD be.

Correcton, thats what the AVATAR should be $:-\$ .

Adamus · « **Reply #21 on:** December 21, 2004, 07:59:56 PM »

Dire Avengers are decent in tournaments or games where you do not know what to expect. Mine usually do ok but rarely earn their points. What I would like to see that would keep in context with their fluff is the ability to shoot their Shuriken Catapults in Close Combat or maybe Harlequin-style bio-explosive(I think that is right) shurikens.

Farseer Bling Blong · « **Reply #22 on:** December 24, 2004, 07:34:51 PM »

Dude, Dire Avangers have a higher LD, with the new rules out you know thats importain, and Dire Avangers are great units, there are many great things about them, as of all eldar units, if you only learn how to use them correctly... anyway i like thier Helmets...

-=Abyss=- · « **Reply #23 on:** December 24, 2004, 08:28:33 PM »

Still to me they either need to be cheaper or have more capibilitys, I don't use them beacause my Gurdains fit thier role perfectly, I play Ulthe'we btw hahha

Rasmus · « **Reply #24 on:** December 25, 2004, 03:21:54 AM »

Quote from: Abyss on December 24, 2004, 08:28:33 PM

Still to me they either need to be cheaper or have more capibilitys, I don't use them beacause my Gurdains fit thier role perfectly, I play Ulthe'we btw hahha

Only the first 1-2 squads of them, depeding on mission. The rest are just as bad as everyone else's. This is where the Avengers come in to fill the gap. You save some points getting Black Defenders for the first compulsary slots, but then the Avengers are worth their points filling out the rest in your high-BS-skill force.

DaveV · « **Reply #25 on:** December 25, 2004, 07:53:25 AM »

This topic keeps coming up. At least it's not the old Scorps vs. Banshees thing

I play in tournaments, and I never leave home without my Dires. People are often suprised to see them in my Swordwind army. However, I've never found them to be a detriment to my final tourney standing.

They're the cheapest of the Aspects, and using either Avenger Fist or Fleet of Foot tactics, I can usually get them into position to shoot down something. In 4th Ed., they get to shoot twice and then charge into close combat, where their extra WS comes in handy.

Also, Dires need not "make back their points" if they even slow down, say, an important enemy unit. Always think about the goal of a scenario. Some units do a lot of the killing, if they are allowed to, others seize objectives or points of terrain. My Avengers are a flexible unit that fulfills a number of roles, in a way that more expensive (and specific) Aspects or less-able Guardians cannot.

Lazarus · « **Reply #26 on:** December 25, 2004, 08:18:51 AM »

glad to hear that they work for you and that you DO use them in tournaments. where i play i have yet to see someone else use them.
i disagree however about them being able to fulfill more roles than the less-able guardians.

dire avengers have a 0% chance of hurting a tank...even av 10! they do not get access to grenades either so are hampered by opponents in cover. their total effective range is 12" (max) with no range options. the exarchs powers basically do nothing now.
access to special weapons (flamers and fusion guns) for stormies
access to warlocks
we all know the toys warlocks can have

many a tank / dread has fallen to a defender "fist" squad from the warlock's blade.

the avengers WILL see changes in the new codex that will make them better than they are now which will be a win win situation for you because you are already happy with them now. it will also possibly make me start using them

69Lazarus.

Farseer Bling Blong · « **Reply #27 on:** December 25, 2004, 08:22:00 AM »

If your just playing Ulthwe you can only have 2 black guardians...what about the othe 4 slots??? before anything else have you (Abyss) use Dire Avangers before???

I think they work nice in a Biel-tan army...

Grey Mage · « **Reply #28 on:** December 25, 2004, 04:07:04 PM »

They do work wonderfully in a bieltan list.

Do not doubt the ablity of higher leadership... have you seen the new "fear the darkness" power?

Lazarus · « **Reply #29 on:** December 25, 2004, 04:18:41 PM »

love the models.
would love to put them in my biel tan list but i couldnt find room. see, i would have to sacrifice other units that are better then they are. my last 6 seats on the falcon?... i think the dragons will get that.

69Lazarus.

Grey Mage · « **Reply #30 on:** December 25, 2004, 04:26:35 PM »

*shrug* I generally use them as a counterassualt unit to cover my reapers or whatever firebase I took, something they are good at but not so expensive that Im sorry I didnt assault with them.

Lazarus · « **Reply #31 on:** December 25, 2004, 05:44:33 PM »

a wraithlord does wonders as a protective unit for your reapers. put him in the same cover the reapers are in and no one will go near it. the wraithlord will also last alot longer. he costs the same as the squad does minus the exarch and all his gear / power.

dire avengers NEED something.

69Lazarus.

Grey Mage · « **Reply #32 on:** December 25, 2004, 09:54:38 PM »

Ahh, but it seems... odd. I think that wraithlords should be spearheading assualts on foot... but still, you raise a good point.

I wont argue that they dont need something... but I also think that they work as they are... then again, I dont mind my unit not being a sure thing, I dont mind taking chances, and all in all I dont mind if some of my units are substandard... cause they are what I have, and Ill use them the best I can.

-=Abyss=- · « **Reply #33 on:** December 25, 2004, 11:37:42 PM »

Wait where does it say I can ONLY have two Black Gurdian squads? if that was true I would be unable to field more then two Asepects

Grey Mage · « **Reply #34 on:** December 26, 2004, 02:28:26 AM »

You only get black graurdians as your complusory squads, so some missions give you NO black gaurdians... the rule is number of gaurdian squads, not nunber of BLACK guardians.

-=Abyss=- · « **Reply #35 on:** December 26, 2004, 03:10:44 AM »

Oh just read the Craftworld codex, thats very odd, still I don't use Dire Avengers, I think they cost too much for just higher BS and LD and I ahve used them before, they died rather quickly, my Gurdians survived much longer, but why are you only allowed two squads of Blak Gurdians!?!? that does not make sense

Rasmus · « **Reply #36 on:** December 26, 2004, 05:09:15 AM »

It is a matter of game balance. If you were allowed any number of Black Guardians then you would be paying for them. +1/+2 points each, or something, possibly even more for the Storms.

Farseer Bling Blong · « **Reply #37 on:** December 26, 2004, 06:32:13 PM »

But you can have any amount of Black Guardians in an USF army!!!

Praetor · « **Reply #38 on:** December 26, 2004, 07:06:37 PM »

Well I also use Rangers in my Ulthwe army... They do very well pin units that get to close to my BGs..

Rasmus · « **Reply #39 on:** December 27, 2004, 02:53:49 AM »

Quote from: Farseer Azdianur on December 26, 2004, 06:32:13 PM

But you can have any amount of Black Guardians in an USF army!!!

But there a single shot can open the gate too soon, and if surrounded, half of your army is dead. This balances nicely, I think.

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Author Topic: Dire Avengers? (Read 5132 times)