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Author Topic: How Much Do You Invest in Veterans?  (Read 2941 times)

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Offline Wyddr

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How Much Do You Invest in Veterans?
« on: May 9, 2014, 08:47:04 PM »
Thinking about putting together an elite-ish Guard force, but I'm wondering how many points to invest in a Vet squad. They're awfully squishy, and you can easily wind up investing 11-12 points a model.

So: What do you give them?

Is it just the three specials? Do you run them with Heavy weapons? Do you give them Krak grenades?

Are Demolitions/Forward Sentries/Grenadiers worth it?

Curious to hear how you kit them and how. Thanks!

Offline ranger_scout

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Re: How Much Do You Invest in Veterans?
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2014, 10:42:53 AM »
It really depends on how you play them.  They are not much more expensive then normal guardsmen with better bs, more options and no platoon stucture.  This is there huge advantage. 

If running in chimeras I would recommend 2 spec weapons as that is all the firin points for any gun you still have las gun arrays.

The fowards sentries is okay as well gives you flexible deployment options and better saves in cover.  3 special weapons for vets on foot is smart as they can use them all now that you are out of chimeras or heavy weapons.

Carpace is okay to better save but guess what they are still guardsmen and a lot of weapons ignoor av 4 and well cover seems to be able to just taken away a lot now to.  So I still tend to think of guardsmen as disposable and not quite worth the upgrade. 

Lastly the demo charge is good with demolitions but what are melta bombs going to do vs MC not much as you are still guardsmen. Basicly take this if you want a demo charge and or are going to manage to run up to tanks.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: How Much Do You Invest in Veterans?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2014, 11:24:51 AM »
I'm thinking of going a Catachan force of grizzled vets (now contracted with a Rogue Trader).

My standby/main line unit is Vets w/ 3xPlasma, Forward Sentries, Krak Grenades.

This unit weighs in at 125 which, given how fragile they are, has me a bit worried whether I should shave points. I could drop the Krak, but then they don't have any recourse to assault vehicles, which I've found is the best way to kill vehicles this edition. Then again, even though I plan to move them around, I'm not 100% they'll ever live long enough to assault a vehicle often.

I've also got enough points left over to buy them the occasional Heavy Bolter or Mortar, but, again, that strikes me as spending too much on 10 GEQ wounds, Stealth or no Stealth.

The problem comes down to this:
1) I want a list without many tanks, since they're supposed to be used to working in dense terrain. I've filled by Fast Attack with Sentinels, Valkyries, and (probably) a Vulture. None of the Heavy Support options fit the theme, so heavy lifting needs to be done by infantry.

2) The problem with Vets only as infantry is you can only take 6 squads (which I have--two squads riding in Valks), but I find myself with a dearth of long-range firepower. Most guns operate in the 24" or less area, Sentinels excepted. I'm thinking I should toss some heavy weapons in the troops department, but that means investing even more points in units that strike me as easily wiped out. Troubling.

Perhaps I should drop a pair of vet squads and insert a platoon with some heavy firepower? Not sure. Anyway, here's the preliminary 1500-point list:

HQ
Company Command Squad w/Master of Ordnance, Medic
Primaris Psyker, Lv 2

Troops
Vets w/ 3x Plasma, Forward Sentries, Krak
Vets w/ 3x Plasma, Forward Sentries, Krak
Vets w/ 3x Plasma, Forward Sentries, Krak
Vets w/ 3x Plasma, Forward Sentries, Krak

Vets w/2x Melta, 1x Hvy Flamer, Grenadiers
Vets w/2x Melta, 1x Hvy Flamer, Grenadiers

Fast Attack
3x Armored Sentinels w/Lascannons
2 x Valkyries w/Multiple Rocket Pods, Lascannons
1 x Vulture w/TL Autocannon, HK Missiles

Leaves me about 15 points to burn. I *could* shift two plasma vets to GL/AC vets which could free up about 60 points (I think), but that puts me back into investing in troops or (maybe) buying some Ratlings or something (which would be fluffy, true, but I'm not sure how useful).
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 11:26:15 AM by Wyddr »

Offline spunkybass

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Re: How Much Do You Invest in Veterans?
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2014, 11:36:07 AM »
I've been playing an AirCav-themed Catachan veteran infantry army for awhile now. The original list did not have any heavy weapons on the ground, as in 5th Ed, the army started in their Valks and Vends and I relied on those flyers for heavy firepower. But with the current edition, I needed to have half my squads on the ground. And I found that heavy weapons do go a long for the guys on the ground to hold off the enemy while waiting for the cavalry to turn up. I usually have 2 squads with autocannon, plus another with a missile launcher. They also have plasma guns, and with the new codex, I've been experimenting with snipers as well (it's so cheap points-wise, why not). You might want to consider that.
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Offline Lazarus

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Re: How Much Do You Invest in Veterans?
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2014, 01:13:34 PM »
I always ran my Vets with Demolitions. Now, they are xx points cheaper because you need to buy Krak grenades if you want them - which you don't need when you already have Melta bombs.

They dropped the other doctrine costs by a lot and the Heavy flamer option too. What was always a solid unit for me in the last codex, got better and cheaper.
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Offline LoH

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Re: How Much Do You Invest in Veterans?
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2014, 09:18:10 PM »
I always ran my Vets with Demolitions. Now, they are xx points cheaper because you need to buy Krak grenades if you want them - which you don't need when you already have Melta bombs.

They dropped the other doctrine costs by a lot and the Heavy flamer option too. What was always a solid unit for me in the last codex, got better and cheaper.

Right, that's going to be a big of edition lag for me -- Vets used to come with 'em. So not actually any cheaper in the base cost if you consider the change in default wargear, then.
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Offline Lazarus

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Re: How Much Do You Invest in Veterans?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2014, 04:42:19 AM »
Well, I do actually view them as cheaper in that configuration despite the loss of the Krak grenades. I found that once you had Melta Bombs, you weren't using the Krak genades anyways so why pay for them?.

I currently have 5 units of Veterans and usually use at least 3 units in every game.
"If someone used the ridiculous cover saves rule on me I'd probably punch him in the face. If he's still standing he would be entitled to punch me in the face, take my army, and my woman if he can. This is known as the Conan rule of play, and is not forbidden in the core rules and encourages serious amounts of sportsmanship." - Carniflex

Offline fejj06

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Re: How Much Do You Invest in Veterans?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2014, 08:11:58 AM »
Geez is it just me or are plasma guns just to expensive. 3x plasma upgrade
Not very much cheaper than base unit cost. Last couple game ran backfield vets
With lascannon and vox and 3x sniper rifles. Not sure its the best but
Has been doing decent

 


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