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Offline Count von cordova

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(almost) all warrior army?
« on: June 10, 2009, 12:50:31 AM »
so i noticed that you can take warriors for hq fastattack and elites

and that rippers count as troops

so has anyone ever tried maxing out the amount of warriors you can take and then just taking a few ripper squads for troops ?

if so
how did it do?
how did you equip them?
do you think its possibly competitive?

if not
how WOULD you equip them?
do you think its possibly competitive?

Offline Nihilanth

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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2009, 12:57:30 AM »
It sounds like a fun idea, but it seems too financially expensive for anyone in their right mind to attempt. :P

I don't know if it would be competitive, but it sounds like it would be a lot of fun to play for some reason. You'd also get some serious WTFs from people around you.

As far as equipment, I'd probably set aside a few broods for shooting and a few for close combat (particularly the winged ones). I'd give non winged ones extended carapace just so they won't automatically get hurt from every boltgun shot that comes their way (of which there will be lots).

Other than that I can't really tell you much since I don't use warriors a lot, but it's an interesting idea.

Offline MaldeCaderas

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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2009, 02:52:22 AM »
Unfortunately, rippers are, though they are troops, unable to capture objectives, so you can't win a capture game with all rippers. You can solve troop problem by biomorph "without number" on gaunts, two squads would do well.

I believe all out warrior lists would do quite fine against crowd armies, like orks, or infantry heavy lists as well as light armor spam. However against normal and high av vehicles and MeQ saves they will have hard time.

And the thing is, while the basic cost for a warrior looks quite low, it becomes quite high when you give it even the most basic setup for what it does. It only catches a fine point/effect value between 30 and 40 points a warrior each, which results in relative low number of models on board - which are also fragile.

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Offline shaten

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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2009, 10:26:51 AM »
the other issue with this army is warriors die easily, Now you can make them last longer by giving them different weapons (wound allocation per model) but the armor save of 4+ gets chopped through fairly fast.

I would suggest 4 to 5 large gaunt squads (cover saves) then all warriors could be a fun list. (and somewhat close to my 1500pt tourney list)
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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2009, 10:29:30 AM »
Unfortunately, rippers are, though they are troops, unable to capture objectives, so you can't win a capture game with all rippers.

Sure you can. Just kill all of the other side.
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Offline MaldeCaderas

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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2009, 10:40:53 AM »
It would en up a draw wouldn't it :D

Misunderstandment. If you clean wipe the enemy you win the objective battle I guess, no matter if you have any troops left or not. So you are right.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 10:42:10 AM by MaldeCaderas »
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Offline blinky jungle(REM)

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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2009, 10:59:02 AM »
You could own all horde armies with I think 72 deathspitter shots. Now thats enough firepower to wipe all off the face of the planet in one turn
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Offline Nihilanth

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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2009, 12:35:38 PM »
omg...

I don't even want to think of how time consuming it would be to place and scatter 72 small blast templates in one turn... But it still sounds fun.

This thread has inspired me to start collecting warriors now. :]

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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2009, 03:16:32 PM »
Now just imagine facing an ork army with 180 boyz. 1=ork player 2=tyranid player

1. I outnumber you by so much there is no chance of you winning.
2. Really I'll see about that.
1. you and what army
2. Just me and my 72 deathspitter templates
1.*gulp* I can still go first
2. *rolls dice and smiles*
1. Dam...

And so half of the ork army is wiped out in 1 turn.


Now being serious this could be very competitive list if played right but as all specialist lists it has 1 downfall AV14. nothing can damage it unless you swapped some warriors for fexes and also this list might not do well in objective games but you can blast the opponent off the objective.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 03:21:46 PM by blinky jungle »
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Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2009, 04:08:03 PM »
Tha'd be hellishly expensive though. And an Ork player could also spam Nobs and Meganobz in addition to the 180 boys just to piss you off.

It'd be fun, but not a good idea for competitive purposes.

Offline KingNid

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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2009, 10:22:10 PM »
Now just imagine facing an ork army with 180 boyz. 1=ork player 2=tyranid player

1. I outnumber you by so much there is no chance of you winning.
2. Really I'll see about that.
1. you and what army
2. Just me and my 72 deathspitter templates
1.*gulp* I can still go first
2. *rolls dice and smiles*
1. Dam...

And so half of the ork army is wiped out in 1 turn.


Now being serious this could be very competitive list if played right but as all specialist lists it has 1 downfall AV14. nothing can damage it unless you swapped some warriors for fexes and also this list might not do well in objective games but you can blast the opponent off the objective.



How can you get your warriors to shoot a 24" range gun at the enemy on the first turn?
I realize the whole this is hypothetical :P , but still, either I have way to much room in between me and my enemy or I am unaware of some special rule that allows you to shoot really far???


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Offline Count von cordova

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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2009, 11:51:44 PM »
12inche deployment 6 inch movement

48 inch board

unless those are shooty orks they got a big problem

it would be almost a completley anti ork army since all their vehicles are open topped we can pen with our venom cannons and they need 6's to wound us in combat(if we take leaping we should get the charge most of the time)

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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2009, 05:03:51 AM »
12inche deployment 6 inch movement

48 inch board

unless those are shooty orks they got a big problem

it would be almost a completley anti ork army since all their vehicles are open topped we can pen with our venom cannons and they need 6's to wound us in combat(if we take leaping we should get the charge most of the time)

Since when does a Strength 3 model need to roll a 6 to wound a Toughness 4 model?
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Offline Deathpepper

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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2009, 09:09:24 AM »
I've used warrior heavy armies quite a bit, usually in units of 6 or so with spitters.  They always do pretty well vs everything.  The times I used cc warriors, they were ok but not amazing.  The ranged loadouts are just so much better, you can make a vicious shooty army based around warrior, zoan, and MC guns.  Everything is reasonably tough while screened, and they can all move and shoot to focus fire.  Most of these units are still solid in cc, too.

Rippers on the other hand, are about the worst unit you can field.  They just don't have anything special to make them worth taking.  I'd only put them in a list that already has lots and lots of scoring troops.  They don't have fleet, they don't hit very hard, they die REALLY easy so you'll take tons of no retreat casualties, they can't screen warriors because they're so short (except the forgeworld models), and they have several kryptonites:  S6+ anything, blasts, templates.  No scoring is just that final straw making them a theme/fluff only choice. 

do you think its possibly competitive?
As long as you have no scoring units, it will never be competetive.  Swap in WoN gaunts and/or stealers and you have something.

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Offline Count von cordova

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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2009, 12:20:13 PM »
12inche deployment 6 inch movement

48 inch board

unless those are shooty orks they got a big problem

it would be almost a completley anti ork army since all their vehicles are open topped we can pen with our venom cannons and they need 6's to wound us in combat(if we take leaping we should get the charge most of the time)



yeah sorry about that for some reason i thought warriors had t5

Offline Lucky_Jackal

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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2009, 10:51:03 PM »
You know. a Hord style army made only of Warrioirs and gaunts chould be interesting.

2 warrioir units in the HQ slot.
3 in the Elite slots.

then fill the rest with gaunts.

Offline Archaon

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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2009, 01:23:19 PM »
I have found barbed stranglers to be quite effective bs meq and incredibly effective vs orks and IG. Even vs meqs the huge template will force quite a lot of saves.
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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #17 on: July 1, 2009, 11:36:51 PM »
Slightly old thread, but here is a copy of my post from the 40k in 40minutes thread that just happens to deal exactly with this topic:

The most warriors you could get in an army using a standard FOC with the current rules are 72. Each Warrior squad can have up to 9 warriors in it. Standard Warrior squads can be either HQ or Elite, so that is the first 5x9. Then, if you give warriors wings, they count as fast attack, which gives you the remaining 3x9. If my mathhammer is working correctly, the full 72 possible warriors equipped with nothing but toxin sacs, deathspitters, and scything talons (and wings for the FA group) totals up to about 2610 points. To make it a playable force, you need to add a minimum of 2 ripper squads, bringing it to a total of a minimum 2670 point game to actually field them all. Not to mention it would cost over $840 to buy them all.

Warriors with Deathspitters completely wreck IG and other GEQs, especially when they take a lot of infantry.
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Offline Count von cordova

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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #18 on: July 2, 2009, 12:10:34 AM »
hmm what amount of money do you think it would take to get up to 1500? (i bow to your math hammer abilities)

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Re: (almost) all warrior army?
« Reply #19 on: July 2, 2009, 01:26:13 AM »
Well, once again assuming that you equip them as toxin sacs, scything talons, and deathspitters (costs 31 points each), and taking into account your minimum of 6 ripper bases to satisfy the FOC, you can fit about 46 warriors in 1500. However, the maximum number of warriors you can take without spilling into the fast attack slots is only 45, so you end up with 45 free points to do whatever with, probably to give venom cannons to 4 (+10pts each) warriors so they can deal with lighter tanks and a barbed strangler (+5pts) to another to take out infantry. That will bring you up to exactly 1500 points. Still, to buy 45 warriors at $35 for every 3 warriors means you have to buy 15 boxes of them, totaling to be over $525! Plus you would still have NOTHING that can hurt AV14 vehicals (warrior+toxin+venom cannon = S7 + D6 = max 13 VAP), so against a Land Raider or Monolith, you are screwed. However, against a GEQ army with no strong tanks, 40 Deathspitters, 4 Venom Cannons, and a Barbed Strangler will rip everything to shreds.

Okay, the following assumes you are fighting against an all-infantry IG army (I've seen this done in what was probably a 2000 point game vs Dark Eldar, didn't see who won though):

Depending on how close he packs his infantry together, a Deathspitter's (DS) small blast template will hit an average of 3-5 units, a Barbed Strangler's (BS) large blast template will hit between 7-13, and a Warrior without +BS will usually hit with one to two Venom Cannon (VC) shots every two turns or so. Using blast averages of 4 for the DS and 10 for the BS, then considering that you will most certainly miss some shots every turn, probably up to a third and increasing with every model you kill, you should be able to land about 27 solid DS shorts per turn that will cause about 108 S6 hits (using the 4-model average) and will cause about 90 instant death wounds (S6 to T3 = 2+ and ID) at AP5. Assuming that half of his gaurdsmen might be in cover, about 45 will be instantly killed and another 22 will die from failed cover saves. From the BS, we get another 10 hits that wound on 3+ (Warrior S4 + S1Toxin - S1 BarbedS = S4 to T3 = 3+), so about 6 more wounds will result from this shot, once again at AP5. If his men are in the open, that is 6 more dead, but only 3 if he has his 4+ cover save. Finally, you get 8 shots with the VCs, but as Ballistic Skill 2, only 2 or 3 will actually hit. Just for fun, lets say we got 3 hits. Once again, at S7 to T3, we wound on 2+ and cause instant death. That means we will most likely wound with all 3 hits at AP4. If he has a cover save, 1 or 2 will die, otherwise all of them go poof.

So, given one round of shooting where everyone is able to shoot, you could cause approximately 75 unsaved/unsavable wounds, 69 of which cause instant death to anything with T3. In order to ensure that you get as many blasts in as possible, be sure to make all of your rolls to hit BEFORE you start rolling to wound!! This way you ensure that you can hit the maximum number of targets possible and thus cause the maximum amount of wounds that will transfer to people not under a blast template after bodies start being removed. I will personally testify from personal experience that a 5 warrior squad with toxin sacs, enhanced senses, 4 DSs and a VC will cause mega damage to gaurdsmen.

There is one limiting factor to this, and that is that you have only 5 squads. Each squad has 8 DS and a VC (and one BS), so you can only shoot at 5 different squads per turn. In tight quarters with scatters it is, of course, possible to hit more than that, but it is still important to keep in mind.

As far as defense goes, checkerboard the warriors so they all get a 4+ cover save. For those who don't know what checkerboarding means, it is when you take two squads of roughly the same size, call them squad 1 and 2, then place them like so:

1 2 1 2 1 2
2 1 2 1 2 1
1 2 1 2 1 2

They obscure eachother and thus get a 4+ coversave, hopefully making up for their crappy 5+ save (remember that they didn't get +Sv).

Here is a visual of checkerboading:
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