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Author Topic: First time vs. Nids / 2.5k - build me an army :)  (Read 1029 times)

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Offline Katamari Damacy

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First time vs. Nids / 2.5k - build me an army :)
« on: March 26, 2012, 01:43:27 PM »
Oi

I'll be playing a rather special game in two weeks and it will be my first battle versus Nids ever. It will also be a very large game for me, i usually play 1,5k - 1,75k games so that will be something quite different this time.

I've been using a rather balanced army that worked okay vs. Orks and CSM but i thought i'd go for something a bit different this time. That said, i could probably just expand my regular list and be done with it. However, since i will play vs. a good friend who usually uses CSM, i thought i'd give him a suprise.

My usual picks, without further thinking would be:
1 Doom Seer
10 CC-Unit
10 DAs + Serpent
2x 10 Defenders w/Scatter
2 Wraithlords

This is what i always pick. However, it has gotten somewhat boring and i'm looking for some general advice against Nids and i would also like to invite you to build a list for me from the stuff that i own. I would especially like some input from people who are familiar with both armies. I listed some of the configurations because of WYSIWYG. We don't really care for this but in some cases it helps. Please pick from the following (no bikes, no Wraithguards):

1 of each Special Char (i never use them, might try it this time?)
4 Farseers, (2 spears)
7 Warlocks (2 spears)
1 Avatar
12 Fire Dragons (2 Exarchs)
21 Banshees (2 Exarchs)
21 Scorpions (2 Exarchs)
too many Harlequins
27 Dire Avengers (1 Exarch)
34 Guardians, 2 Scatter, 2 Flamer, 2 Fusion
15 Rangers
3 Vipers (without Weapons)
17 Warp Spiders (2 Exarchs)
23 Swooping Hawks (4 Exarchs)
12 Dark Reapers (1 Exarch)
2 Wraithlords with Blade + EML + BL
5 Wraithlords old, 3 Star Cannons, 2 BLs
2 Falcons with Pulsar/Scatter/Shuriken Cannon
1 Fire Prism with Shuriken Cannon
1 Warp Hunter
3 War Walkers old, 6 Star Cannons
3 War Walkers new, 2 Scatter, 2 Star, 2 EML
2 Support Weapon: Warp Cannon (small ones)
3 Wave Serpents, EML; BL; 2x Shuriken

I don't expect you to post a detailed list, however, feel free to post one  ;D I also gladly take "basic" advice on Eldar Units. I think i have a good idea of what works and what doesen't, but this is based on paper-knowledge.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 01:48:04 PM by Katamari Damacy »
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Offline XavianBlacksoul

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Re: First time vs. Nids / 2.5k - build me an army :)
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2012, 04:37:51 PM »
HI

I'm not going to write a list for you but hopefully give a few pointers in the right direction. I play against the nid list quite a lot so hopefully i can help. Contrary to most public opinion they are not a bad army, sure not in the Space wolves/Blood angels/GN category of super bad ass but still a challenge to beat.
I find the best army to be one that can react quickly at the drop of a hat, and to be more shooty than combat based.

Don't be fooled into thinking that they won't be shooting much because they have plenty of decent fire power, and more importantly the little ones are bloody quick. 
The main issue with Nids tends to be how they advance, the big guys tend to be slow, the little guys fast, and then outflankers and deep strike. If all the reserves appear second turn then they can be a royal pain to deal with, if not then you can remove them as they arrive. The best way in my opinion to deal with them is understandably to make a moving castle. This should be put in the center of the board to avoid outflanking rending genestealers, and have the ability to zip off quickly when they reach your lines. Here are my tips.

1. Take as much S6 multi shot weapons as possible. Nothing in their army has Toughness above 6 and the likes of scatter lasers will ruin their day.

2. Take a few EML, these are great for instant killing tyranid warriors and zoanathropes although the latter have a rather impressive invulnerable save (think storm shield) Brightlance is pointless.

3. Take Runes of warding and Witnessing. Nids are good at psychic stuff, zoans are the best anti tank they have, plus the hive tyrant can put it about also. Block it off and hopefully cause a few wounds. Witnessing is there because of the tyrants special rule (forgot what its called) They kinda cancel each other out.

4. Shoot the little guys first. Nids like waves, The first things that hit your line will be  hormagaunts, genestealers winged multi wound beasties such as Tyrants and harpies. If you don't deal with them then the big guys behind will arrive unmolested, you don't want that.

5. Take pathfinders/rangers. Snipers rock against the big guys. Wounding on a 4 plus is great, it brings a fear factor to your game, rending is not bad either. I like to put them away from the main force, hopefully drawing some of their force away from the action. If this happens don't be afraid to leg it, their job is done.

6. Protect yourself in tanks. Nids find Armour difficult to deal with unless in combat. It helps when you what to either move very fast away from them or place a unit of storm guardians or bladestorming avengers where they need to be. Regardless don't leave home without them. Oh and because you are not moving the first couple of turns falcons are great.

7. Night spinners are fantastic against this army. The nets shred gaunts and the movement hazard works wonders.

8. Wraithlords are a no-no really. Poisoned attacks can really ruin your day.
 
That's it i think, i may have forgotten something but i have a blinding headache and need a lay down. Hopefully something here is helpful to you.
All the best.
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Re: First time vs. Nids / 2.5k - build me an army :)
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2012, 05:14:21 PM »
In terms of building the list, I think that you'll receive much better advice if you post one.  Remember the following piece of helpful information from one of the board stickies:

-Please don't just ask for a roster to be made for you ("what's a good Saim Hann list for 1k?"). Some members will make lists for you, but it's generally better to have a list ready. After all, you're going to be playing with the list, you should go through the work of making it!

In addition, you're a much better judge of the types of lists which you think would suit you, even if they're differentiating from your usual standard.  For that reason, posting some kind of list to at least help others understand where you're coming with your alternative perspective would be advised  :).
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Offline Katamari Damacy

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Re: First time vs. Nids / 2.5k - build me an army :)
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2012, 11:31:35 AM »
Thanks Xavian, these Infos help a lot. I have the Nid Codex, but mainly for fun. I guess i'll study it a bit before the game although i can't say what he's going to field. I know he owns two of the old Army Boxes and a couple of Tyrants. Everything else will be a surprise. I didn't realize Nids have poisoned weapons en masse so that's a good reason not to field Dual-WLs.
As you can tell from my collection, i'm not a big fan of mech-lists. My Faloncs were used as Serpent proxies mainly when there was no model available for them and since then, they have seen next to no play. I'm a big fan of armies with lot's of infantry. I use Transport mainly because they have become a necessary evil.

Irisado, you're right i guess. I gladly post a list, i just didn't quite know where to start. I guess my usual plan will have to do here, with some major alterations. This is a 5-minutes build without too much thinking into it. A problem i have while designing a list for a such a big game, is that at 1800 or so points, i feel like adding 'extrastuff'. A couple more specific questions, in case someone can share their insight:

- What do people think about Hawks vs. Nids? I bought them a couple of months ago on ebay and i'd really like to try them.
- Dark Reapers worth it?
- Double RoWa? (Errata)
- Harlies or Scoprions (if Scorps, Fortune?)

1st Attempt:

HQ (255 Pts)
1 Farseer, RoWa, Stones, Doom, Eldritch Storm
1 Farseer, Stones, Doom, Guide

Elites (665 Pts)
- 10 Scorpions, Exarch, Biting Blade, Stalker
- 8 Harlequins, Seer, Jester, 7x Kiss
- 9 Fire Dragons, Exarch, Flamer, Re-Roll + Serpent, Shuriken Cannon, Stones

Troops (668 Pts)
- 10 Avengers + Serpent w/ EML, Stones
- 10 Defenders, Scatter Laser
- 10 Defenders, Scatter Laser
- 6 Rangers
- 6 Rangers

FA (410 Pts)
- 9 Warp Spiders, Exarch, 2x Spinner, Withdraw
- 2 Vypers, 2x Scatter Laser
- 1 Vyper, 2x Shuriken Cannon

HS (500 Pts)
- Falcon, Scatter, Shuriken Cannon, Stones, Holofield
- Night Spinner, Shuriken Cannon, Stones
- 3 War Walker, 6x Scatter Laser

2498 Pts total
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Offline Ginger farseer

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Re: First time vs. Nids / 2.5k - build me an army :)
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2012, 03:13:13 PM »
hi, this list looks like agood list, but I would recommend a few alterations.

First of all I have never found fire dragons much good vs nods, they are too short range, and often get killed by the fast critters before they even fire.

I would recommend giving the seers both RoW, as they stack, so two seers will give you add 2d6.

I personally always use pathfinders instead of rangers, especially when they will be firing at models with and meq or teq save.

I am struggling to find a use for the falcon, I find it poor when just used for fire support, and the only unit it can transport is the rangers.

I would probably get rid of either the scorps or the harliquins, and use the spare points to add more warp spiders, (creating the space by amalgamating the vipers), as they are super effective against nids.

I would also try to find the points for another unit of DA, you could convert the exarch, which I recommend taking with duel catapults and blade storm.


Hope this helps.
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Offline XavianBlacksoul

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Re: First time vs. Nids / 2.5k - build me an army :)
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2012, 03:34:03 PM »
Hello again
To answer your first questions
1. I don't think that Dark reapers would be point effective. They kinda hit mid ground really, too good and expensive to shoot at gaunts, not strong enough to really trouble the big guys, so their target would be the middle guys. I would probably leave them at home, for a start they cannot move and shoot, and when the wolf is at your door, will you run or fight. Dark reapers kill marines and unfortunately until we get a new codex i think they are sub par especially in the dawn of war scenario.

2. Stacked ROW would really put pay to zoans. I have not tried that but it would pretty much take them out the game. If i was the nid player i would be fuming, it really does not feel fair. But then we are Eldar so "whatever"

3. Have never used Harlies so don't know? All i would say is that against Genestealers, Banshees work best due to their masks. Striking first can be important as they beat you for initiative, you still need doom though as you want them dead. Scorps are OK but don't bank on the more impressive save due to the amount of attacks and rending blows the nids can throw at you. They are first and foremost a combat army so pick your targets well and keep them well supported. Fortune will help against the little guys (some of them) But on the whole, not much against anything else. I would forget it unless you fancy taking an Avatar to mix it up as a counter assault unit. By the way this can be quite fun :) Nothing quite like fighting fire with fire.

4. Hawks do much better against Nids than alot of other armies. They are still over expensive but if played well can be useful. You can either start them on the board and use their range and multi shot weapons to thin the little guys before leaping up into the heavens before they hit your lines. Or bring them in from above turn 2/3 away from the main force,  dropping bombs as you go and trying to separate their force much like light horsemen in fantasy.

Now for the list (which i think is kinda cool)

Quote
HQ (255 Pts)
1 Farseer, RoWa, Stones, Doom, Eldritch Storm
1 Farseer, Stones, Doom, Guide

I take it the Guideseer will be hanging with the Warwalkers/falcon? In which case Brilliant, that's a lot of dead bugs. Although Eldritch storm is effective against the gaunts i prefere to take Mind war. Check the codex and you will see plenty which you have a good chance of major popping head syndrome. It's a power that genrally only gets used against Orks but can really work, an easy way to remove fex's for exsample.

Quote
Elites (665 Pts)
- 10 Scorpions, Exarch, Biting Blade, Stalker
- 8 Harlequins, Seer, Jester, 7x Kiss
- 9 Fire Dragons, Exarch, Flamer, Re-Roll + Serpent, Shuriken Cannon, Stones

I personally think that there is too many points in this area. As i stated earlier i have no idea about the harlies. I would go Banshees first myself but using scorps as counter assault unit will hopefully tie up a unit and keep your guys firing. The Dragons will be fine, really good for removing multi would models/units.

Quote
Troops (668 Pts)
- 10 Avengers + Serpent w/ EML, Stones
- 10 Defenders, Scatter Laser
- 10 Defenders, Scatter Laser
- 6 Rangers
- 6 Rangers

This is all great, although i still would try to find points for embolden locks if possible. The witchblades may come in handy if not the leadership roll. The rangers should be aiming for Fly tyrants and Dragons first and foremost.

Quote
FA (410 Pts)
- 9 Warp Spiders, Exarch, 2x Spinner, Withdraw
- 2 Vypers, 2x Scatter Laser
- 1 Vyper, 2x Shuriken Cannon

Not normally a fan of Vypers but i can see them ripping up the place in this list. Its the speed that counts most, the scatter laser ones should be on the move from turn one, while the other should support the main base. Warp spiders are fantastic for removing the big beasties and having that many of them will put the fear into your opponent.

Quote
HS (500 Pts)
- Falcon, Scatter, Shuriken Cannon, Stones, Holofield
- Night Spinner, Shuriken Cannon, Stones
- 3 War Walker, 6x Scatter Laser

Perfect. If possible drop the nightspinner template over as many units as possible, then watch your opponents face drop as is entire force is slowed and killed, priceless. I would drop the shuri on the Nightspinner though because I'm not sure your gonna use it but potato tomato.

Overall i really like it. Hopefu;lly i have been of some help to you and i wish you luck in your game. Do let me know.
All the best.
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