I think that I've playtested at least 50 games with the current incarnation, and I haven't gotten a single complaint....
did you ask? after each game i asked players what they thought and this came up all the time. as you state
People think re-rolls are worse than more attacks, no matter the actual numbers. The best example is for Chaos: Daemonic Mutation v. Spiky Bitz. Spiky Bitz is normally better,
reroll are better than extra attacks, my point exactly, so why not give them extra attack and downpower.
People may think its overpowered before the game, but after the game they realize every time that other weaknesses make it only fair.
What other weaknesses? as i pointed out above High WS, high I, power weapons, number of attacks, fell blades, kisses, masks and grenades, flip belts.
oh i assume you mean the low strength. with the new rules about not been able to strike back at all if no man is in hand to hand, the quins small unit need only kill one or two guys to enforce this if used right. even if they get to fight back they still need to be lucky to score a hit, and wound and not have the quin save.
that means with masks, and grenades you will win the combat a high percentage of the time and youre opponent will flee. this combined with the ability to enter hand to hand quickly and you are laughing all the way to the black library.
,Finally, if you've ever played against Daemonhunters, then you'll know that Harlies aren't all their cracked up to be in close combat
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i have played daemonhunters 5 times , won 4, lost 1.
again the statement apples, kill two and the rest cannot fight back, repeat, till dead, move on. daemonhunters are specialist army , and cost just as much, in balance. with only T4.
What is your argument? It is currently, as I understand it.
1) Harlequins are good in H2H
2) They need to be balanced
3) They have high attacks already
4)They are expensive
5)They should be focused on hand-to-hand
How does this justify your suggestion?
they are good yes,
TOO GOOD, as it stands.
1. Won't this just make everyone always uses Venoms? How is this good? , 2. see above, 3. banshee yells.
1. if they want to burn there heavy slots, missing out on all the other juicy stuff then let them. watch them get shot.
2. I think this makes perfect sense, one of the primary rules of any hand to hand fight is ensure your footing.
3. If khorne berserkers, daemonhunters, and necrons suffer it so should we get a penalty. we are, bar one chap, living and have souls.
Have you ever tested Tanglefoot Grenades? They are for me a waste of points in any incarnation.
several times, and they have proven lethal with our high init. not having anyone follow up benefits us enomously as stated above, we kill 2, noone fights back, they cannot move in, so we choose where we go, and repeat. this is flangey.
Englishharlie,
i am of the same opinion as you. the rules are fine, again i like the historical, but it would be nice to pick the nice stuff out and leave the rest. i won plenty of games with the CJ39-44-50 rules in 4ed.
i find all this extra stuff added, a bit too much. i do not have a problem with new(old) units been added but a balance needs to be taken or teh quins become a one trick army, with too many special rules and options. keep it simple ( masques)
instead of all the pansying around with special rules , this and that.
why not say we always wounds on a maximum of a 5+, due to consumate skill, lose the hit and fade, and have done with it. And this is no way beardy as daemonhunters have WS5, s6 in h2h, furious charge etc. that way we fight with our kit that is listed in the CJ's and take our chances.