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Author Topic: "real-world" influences on 40k?  (Read 32675 times)

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Offline Cripple, Whose Corporeal Form is Now a Shade of Blue

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"real-world" influences on 40k?
« on: April 14, 2008, 11:00:00 PM »
Thought I might as well ask this question.

What real-world influences do you think are used in the flavor of the 40k universe, along with obscure "concidental" references.

As an (rather obscure) example:

The ultramarines have a stong greek/roman influence.
They are the 13th legion.

The legion that Julius Caesar led over the Rubicon was the 13th legion. Quite "coincidental".

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Offline bluewpc

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2008, 11:03:03 PM »
The Night Lords are based loosely off the followers of Walter E. Kurtz from Apocalypse Now which is based off of Conrad's Heart Of Darkness.
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Offline praetorian1

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2008, 11:44:23 PM »
there is much history that seems really close to what is in 40k fiction

probably cause of most of the writers being historians lol
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Offline Rasmus

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2008, 02:20:32 AM »
GW has stolen 90% of their material from other authors or historical events. It is just a LOT simpler than to actually come up with it all on your own. I am sure this thread could be hundreds of pages long...

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Offline Bumbles

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2008, 02:34:18 AM »
Alternatively, it'll last two pages before it's a flame war, and it's locked.

Anyway:
Corax (Primarch of the one of the Something Raven chapters) is Latin for Raven, and his only attributed  quote is "Nevermore", which he said after meditation over events of the Heresy. The quote itself is lifted directly from Edgar Allen Poe's novel, "the Raven", where the Raven in question said only "nevermore".

Offline praetorian1

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2008, 04:12:46 AM »
well i wouldnt go so far as say stole, as history tends to be weirder than fiction

besides does history not repeat itself?
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Offline Irandrura

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2008, 04:30:56 AM »
Corax (Primarch of the one of the Something Raven chapters) is Latin for Raven,

40k tries to use a lot of Latin. Emphasis on the word 'tries'. Typically it's not very good with it. I still find the end of Lord of the Night amusing. Ave dominus nox, it says, which is supposed to mean 'hail the lord of the night'. It does not. It means 'hail lord night'. Spurrier used the nominative case of nox - he should be using the genitive for 'of the'. A more correct Latin translation would be ave dominus noctis. I could understand using a fake Latin translation if the correct phrase doesn't sound dramatic or intimidating, but in this case, the proper phrase sounds every bit as atmospheric as the printed one.

So that's what GW gets for not doing the research. I suppose most people wouldn't be bothered by that sort of thing, but it sometimes bothers me. It's mostly if the phrase itself is a very simple one. Getting more complex phrases wrong is something I'd be more sympathetic to. That isn't one of them, though. Both dominus and nox decline completely regularly in the present tense and are quite common words. It's very basic grammar, which is what makes it annoying. Getting complex grammar wrong is forgivable, though.

Anyway, there was no reason to complain about that. I just looked at Lord of the Night recently and it's been bothering me.

Back to the topic, though, yes, there are a lot of historical references. I imagine they're supposed to be amusing, though it goes without saying that the vast majority are not. There have been topics about them before.
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Offline Heretek

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2008, 05:51:21 AM »
GW has stolen 90% of their material from other authors or historical events. It is just a LOT simpler than to actually come up with it all on your own. I am sure this thread could be hundreds of pages long...

I'd be careful about using the word 'stolen'. It's a rather aggressive term. I would go with 'inspired'. They didn't steal the design of the Land Raider from the Tank, for example, the Tank inspired the Land Raider.

This thread could really be pre-empted by using the search button though.

Offline Rasmus

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2008, 06:06:27 AM »
My favourites, apart from using holidays as names of Craftworlds, would be where the name of the Dark Angel Primarch came from and why.

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Offline Talion

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2008, 07:41:05 AM »
GW has stolen 90% of their material from other authors or historical events. It is just a LOT simpler than to actually come up with it all on your own. I am sure this thread could be hundreds of pages long...

I'd be careful about using the word 'stolen'. It's a rather aggressive term. I would go with 'inspired'. They didn't steal the design of the Land Raider from the Tank, for example, the Tank inspired the Land Raider.

This thread could really be pre-empted by using the search button though.

And *the* Box inspired *the* Tank? ;)

Offline Bumbles

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2008, 07:03:27 PM »
My favourites, apart from using holidays as names of Craftworlds, would be where the name of the Dark Angel Primarch came from and why.
Okay... I'll bite... story please.

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2008, 07:07:38 PM »
The poet Lionel Johnson wrote a poem entitled "The Dark Angel" which was considered by many to be his greatest work, full of pain and regret as it was.
Rejoice.  Despair. 
Fate does not care.
Each knotted mind entwined. 
Each soul another's bind.
And blind though we are led. 
In time we do know when, to cut a thread.
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Offline Rasmus

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2008, 02:09:29 AM »
Lionel Johnson = Lion El Johnson, of course. It is such a simple and tawdry thing I always thought.

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Offline Caerolion

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2008, 03:11:48 AM »
Funny thing was though, the real Lionel Johnson was apparently gay, giving some backing to those insults the Space Wolves keep throwing at their "dress"-wearing rivals.

Offline Irandrura

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2008, 04:54:33 AM »
*sigh* That always comes up. Of course, you then have to point out that regardless of any personal inclinations, Johnson hated homosexuality. The Dark Angel is often interpreted as Johnson struggling with his latent homosexuality - the Dark Angel he speaks of is a personification of homosexual lust, and as you can see, Johnson seems to consider it both seductive and evil. A more generic reading of the poem sees the Dark Angel as a metaphor for the temptation of evil in a general sense, and that appears to be what GW is drawing on for the Dark Angels Chapter. Unless one would argue that there was some homosexual attraction between Luther and Lion El'Jonson, but that's something better not contemplated.

Speaking of which, should a discussion on the homosexual themes to Lionel Johnson's work and their applicability to the Dark Angels appear, I expect everyone to be able to talk about that calmly and maturely. Keep it out of the gutter.

On a different note, didn't they use to spell the name Lyyn Elgonsen, back in the Rogue Trader days, which was a marginally more subtle reference?
(Just to pre-empt - yes, I know Wikipedia agrees with me. I don't trust it. I believe the name was mentioned on this site before. Rasmus, I think you know...?)
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Offline Rasmus

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2008, 05:12:41 AM »
I will have to dig out my RT-book to confirm that, but I know a lot of spellings were changed in transition to 2nd and 3rd ed. Along with a lot of revision to fluff. Leman Russ became a Primarch over night, he used to be just a wage-slave spy before.

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Offline Irandrura

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2008, 05:24:43 AM »
I thought Russ used to be a guardsman who fought his way up, but you're right, a lot's changed since then.
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Offline Caerolion

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2008, 06:32:53 AM »
Yeah, I'm sorry for bringing up that bit of info. I never knew his name was spelled like that before though, thats kinda weird, as is the non-Primarch stage of Leman Russ.

Offline Eldrad Fashan

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2008, 10:14:52 AM »
Tau=anime
Tyrinads=zerg=starship trooper bugs
Necrons=...do I really even have to mention this?

And every 40k army (about) has an equivalent or at least an influence from fantasy.
SM=Britonia
IG=Empire
Eldar=Elves
Necrons=Tomb Kings
Tyrinads=Beast Men

The influences are obvious if you know where to look.

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Offline FifthWindDieGermanator

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Re: "real-world" influences on 40k?
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2008, 10:42:23 AM »
How do you get Tyranids from Beast men? Beast men were Chaos, so it would be:

Chaos=Chaos.

The Tyranids were "origional" in the sense that it wasn't based off of a Fantasy race, and the similarities between the others are very obvious.

(Oh, and you forgot one: Squats=Dwarves)(I don't care that they aren't here anymore)
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