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Community => The Space Tavern => Topic started by: Grand Master Lomandalis on October 30, 2020, 03:02:36 PM

Title: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Grand Master Lomandalis on October 30, 2020, 03:02:36 PM
We all know how great of a show this is.  I just finished watching the premier of season two and I wasn't disappointed.

Without giving anything away, having a canon reveal that Star Wars fans have been waiting decades for?  Yes please!!!
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on October 30, 2020, 06:37:06 PM
Always good to see our friend from Guatemala again.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Sir_Godspeed on November 21, 2020, 08:41:40 AM
Ye man, it's a heckin' great ride.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on November 21, 2020, 10:12:08 AM
While I have enjoyed the series thus far, I think I'm probably the only person who thought "The Heiress" (last week's episode) was just a straight-up poor episode of television.

I get why the Star Wars superfans liked it--it featured a key character from another Star Wars show and she was super cool--but my problem is this: I do not watch this show to see characters from other Star Wars shows. The show is called The Mandalorian and I'm in it to see the Mandalorian. Not those other Mandalorians. The main guy--the main character of the show.

And in that one? He was window dressing--an afterthought. The Owls and their boss didn't need him for their transport heist. He barely contributed (I just don't believe they couldn't figure out how to handle those repeating blasters on their own). The conflict in the episode was not related to his own conflict (caring for and returning the child). We, the audience who has not watched Clone Wars, have no idea what the Darksaber is (a black lightsaber the bad guy has, I guess) and, more importantly, have no actual reason we should care.

Mando was holding the idiot-ball for this whole episode. The man who slew a Kyatt Dragon should have been able to slay that beast in the water. The guy with a jet-pack should be able to get out of the cage. The killer bounty hunter that has saved the Child from a thousand other foes should be the one to save the child again, not left gasping for breath on the deck. The guy who has taken out umpteen-million brutes didn't need to be "rescued" by the other Mandalorians.

And then, when his life's code is challenged (yay! Potential conflict!) it goes exactly nowhere.

It was really clear the writers for this episode found those characters from that other show to be cooler than Mando in his own show, and that really irritates me. Not to mention that the "danger" in this episode was barely present, the conflict completely tangential to the Mandalorian's interests, and the resolution entirely unsatisfying.

Okay, rant done. Haven't seen this week's episode yet; hoping it's better. Yes, generally I enjoy the program, thank you.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Sir_Godspeed on November 21, 2020, 02:25:46 PM
I totally understand your point, Wyddr. I've seen others express similar views.

I'm a bit torn. I kinda feel like Episode 2 was a bit of a nothing-episode. I don't mind monster/villain of the week (I actually really like it), but it just felt like a stopgap between other events. Episode 3 was a lot more varied and interesting, but as you say, the Mandalorian himself was kinda demoted to second fiddle, and a lot of it hinged on you being into other pieces of SW media.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on November 21, 2020, 02:45:49 PM
I didn't like "The Passenger" very much, either, but at least Mando had things to do and there was a clear conflict he was engaged in resolving and so on. Did the episode need to exist? No, absolutely not. Was the deus ex machina at the end an earned moment? No, it very much was not. But it was okay for what it was.

This is very much a monster of the week type of show--it has been that from the beginning. The desire from a segment of the viewing audience to make it into something with a well defined serial structure I think will lead to the show's eventual downfall. It's gone from being edgy and stylish to being muddled and boring, and the thing that's causing that is their refusal to commit to a mode.

This show should take a few tips from the writers of Avatar: the Last Airbender and allow the show to breathe narratively. Allow the progress of the characters and the overall story arc to be slow and keep the primary focus on the A-plot for the episode itself and use that conflict to force slow character growth. Instead, they're trying to force it, and it won't work.

Which is why they had that objectively stupid scene in the cockpit of the Imperial transport where Mandalorian A was beating up some Imperial and screaming "WHERE IS THE DARKSABER" while Mando and Mandalorian B pull back on the control sticks and Mandalorian C...just stands there.

If you didn't know what the Darksaber is (or even if you do), then there is nothing in that scene that is remotely interesting. It also fully cements my argument that Mando was completely superfluous, since there was a whole extra Mandalorian just sort of standing there, watching the other two right the ship. It was a forced scene, and notably so, only to play fan service to fans of other SW properties.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Grand Master Lomandalis on November 21, 2020, 05:19:02 PM
See, I disagree on that. 

If someone has watched the show from the beginning, and has no other experience with the greater Star Wars universe, then I think that enough was added to the story to keep up the intrigue.

What are the things we have learned from the previous season?

1)  This is the way
2)  Mandalorians never take their helmets off because of their creed
3)  Moff Gideon has an awesome lightsaber that is a different style compared to what everyone is familiar with

For those familiar with Star Wars lore, there are a lot of gaps missing that didn't make sense at the end of season one.  We had The Clone Wars and Rebels showing us plenty of Mandalorians with their helmets off, so why this new fascination with helmets that came out of no where?  For those unfamiliar with the lore, that is covered by "This is the way."

Now, enter Bo-Katan and her posse, and we find out that not only are there multiple sects of Mandalorians, but that Dinn Djarin is part of a breakaway sect.  Yeah, those that know can make the connection that the "Children of the Watch" are the remnants of the Deathwatch, but it's an added layer to Mandalorian society that wasn't explored before.

As for them hunting for the Darksaber, I don't think you give the general populace enough credit.  Bo-Katan explains that she was part of the ruling family of Mandalore / was the ruler of Mandalore during the Purge; and that she needs something the Empire took from her to reclaim control of Mandalore.  When she's interrogating the guy about the Darksaber, it's clear that a) this is the thing that the Empire took from her, and b) that is clearly the Lightsaber that Gideon has.

We are too early in the season, and possibly even the show, to say that this scene was paying lip service to fans.  It set Dinn on a path to bring the child to Ashoka, which is something that likely won't pan out until the end of the season; but it also set up that the Mandalorians are fighting to return to their home and regain control of their planet.  This could be the episode that is establishing story arcs for future seasons when they opt to pursue the retaking of Mandalore.


Frankly, when you consider that Star Wars is one of the most popular franchises in existence, it makes sense that they are paying some lip service.  Where I see things is that they are acknowledging that not everything is it's own entity.  It all folds into the overarching Star Wars umbrella, but the stories are connected within the universe.  If you look at Clone Wars and Rebels, they really spent the first season being different branches of a story.  When they brought Ashoka and Maul back into the story, it became clear that Rebels was a continuation of the story being told in Clone Wars; just from a different perspective.  The same thing is happening here.  It's still the story that was told from Clone Wars to Rebels, but now it is being told through the eyes of the Mandalorian(s).
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on November 21, 2020, 07:01:48 PM
I've got a lot (a *lot*) of disagreements with what you just said, but I'll condense it to this:

Even if I grant that an audience unfamiliar with Clone Wars and Rebels would understand the nuance they are trying to show about Mandalorians (which they have not, I would argue), the problem here is not comprehension, it is investment.

The story of the Darksaber and the ruling house of Mandalore are not inherently interesting. They are only interesting insofar as they are related to the characters that we care about. This is true, by the way, about all plots in all stories.

The Darksaber/ruler of Mandalore thing, at this moment, has no effect on Mando (and I don't call him by his true name because it's only been spoken once and I don't remember it, which is sort of corollary to what I'm talking about here). Consider this:

1) Mando has never seen the Darksaber.
2) Mando has never been to or expressed an interest in going to Mandalore.
3) Moff Gideon was defeated last season and we haven't heard from him since.
4) None of the above is apparently relevant to protecting the Child or completing his quest, which is Mando's primary objective, next to maintaining his personal code (and are therefore the things the audience is most invested in).

Now, it is entirely possible that they could make any or all of that stuff important to Mando and, therefore, important to the story, but they haven't. That is where I get annoyed, because it's just lazy storytelling! Relying on secondary characters from other shows to have conversations with one another and just presume the audience will be interested b/c they're fans of that other thing is so, so lazy. amphetamine parrot like that is why Rise of Skywalker was so abysmally bad, why the JJ Abrams Star Trek reboots were just so-so, and why I find Doctor Who fandom so impenetrable - they are coasting on the actually good stories better storytellers told elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: magenb on November 24, 2020, 04:53:20 AM
it needs someone who has a bit of military knowledge, so you don't get a bunch of elite trrops standing around watching the ticking bomb.. or people punching metal around with their bare hands... or having traps that are so immediately obvious that my son calls them out..

but hey, it still better than the last 3 things they called movies :)
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on November 24, 2020, 06:24:53 AM
Oh, the Idiot Ball sees a *lot* of use in that show, for sure. I mean, Stromtroopers have always been terrible, but now they're just jokes. And the frustrating thing is the show insists upon making us think they're dangerous.

My favorite episodes have all been the ones featuring no stromtroopers. I just can't take them seriously anymore.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Sir_Godspeed on November 24, 2020, 10:03:41 PM
I'm not a fan of the self-aware "ha ha stormtroopers are bad shots" thing either.

The bad aim is a cinema trope that you can find in lots of movies. It was fine for fans to joke about it, but it does not need explaining or rectifying in-universe.

As usual, I have to admit that I mostly just enjoy myself watching these. I have my quibbles, but it's a fun romp, so I try not to overthink it. Admittedly, the Star Wars writers having no sense of scale of time and space makes it a bit difficult, but I manage.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on November 24, 2020, 10:25:21 PM
In that last episode, they point out that the Imperial Base is, like, on the total other side of the planet and so they...drive there in a speeder?

They really aren't trying that hard.

I do agree--I'm having fun. I do feel, though, that the show is gradually veering towards asking us to take it more seriously, and I think that is ultimately a bad idea.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Sir_Godspeed on November 25, 2020, 01:11:02 PM
Yes, driving from Canada to Argentina in a car over the course of what seems like an afternoon was... weird.

EDIT: As is, of course, the repeating theme of an entire planet having like 500-odd people living there, and traveling between star system without going over the speed of light, but that last one I suspect lots of people will handwave more easily because it's more abstract to many.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on November 25, 2020, 01:20:34 PM
I've pretty firmly stood by the assertion that Star Wars has never, ever made one whit of sense, so I try not to give it trouble for "realism" issues. There's too many to count, anyway.

The problem is, though, that they need to keep the story engaging enough so that the audience doesn't notice. I've been noticing more and more lately, which is a bad sign.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Sir_Godspeed on November 25, 2020, 01:23:11 PM
I've been around too many people who worship and obsess over Star Wars to easily sit down and go "oh yeah, it's all nonsense", but I'm trying to do it more.

I mean, I'm a Warhammer fan, so I've got experience.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Calamity on November 25, 2020, 04:09:46 PM
Way to perfectly summarise my feelings on Star Wars too.  It’s both brilliant and ridiculous. ;D
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Grand Master Lomandalis on November 25, 2020, 09:01:19 PM
Quote from: Sir_Godspeed on November 25, 2020, 01:23:11 PM
I've been around too many people who worship and obsess over Star Wars to easily sit down and go "oh yeah, it's all nonsense", but I'm trying to do it more.

I mean, I'm a Warhammer fan, so I've got experience.

Oh yeah, complete nonsense!

Stepping outside of the Falcon in the mouth of a giant space worm that apparently has an atmosphere?  "If they did go to hyperspeed, they'd be on the other side of the galaxy by now!"  Ezra and Kanaan riding Space Whales?

beslubberin' Ewoks... lol
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: magenb on November 25, 2020, 09:18:51 PM
its bad/lazy writing to dive into a universe without reading any of the lore, they dont need to read everything, even one of the old RPG book has more than enough info on why they should stop doing things like making storm troopers cannon fodder.

Instead get the EA treatment of just reskinning something else and slapping a <insert franchise> sticker on it.

I do wish they would move into the hour long episodes though, the pacing and sense of time for things would improve, instead of, oh she brought me food, maybe I should retire here lol.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Calamity on November 26, 2020, 06:22:26 AM
I personally hate having the Stormtroopers as cannon fodder.  It actually lessens the heroes abilities and standing imo (oh you can kill hordes of bucket heads?  So what?) and makes me wonder how the Empire actually held anything.

A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back had it spot on imo; stormtroopers are introduced blasting their way into the ship like pros.  They then blocked off and contained the heroes in the prison block forcing them to go down the garbage chute before letting the heroes escape without making it look like they let them escape (as per orders).  Then there’s the Battle of Hoth; crushing curb stomp defeat for the rebels.

It was on Endor that things started to go south...beslubberin g Ewoks lol.

I have noticed though that in The Mandalorian they actually do hit Mando a lot of the time...it’s just that armour of his is too damn good for their blasters lol.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Grand Master Lomandalis on November 29, 2020, 11:51:28 PM
I think we might be a bit off on where the small little cameos are fitting in.  We either thought that they were paying lip service to fans or potentially building towards a larger plot.  What if it were neither of those?

What if the known characters are being dropped into the show for single episodes to give some grounding in the current timeline to launch a spin off?

I've read somewhere that they've been thinking of really diving in to the interconnected story lines to have everything really tied together, but to explore it in a way that is similar to Game of Thrones.  Have multiple plot lines being explored during a single episode in different parts of the universe, but all still tied together in one major story.

It's not the first time that several shows have had their ground work launched in a few episode of the same universe.  The Arrow-verse, for instance, was notorious for it.  Could they be looking to do something along those lines with Bo-Katan and Ashoka?  Or are they maybe building to a more GoT style show and have it all happen under the umbrella of the Mandalorian?
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Calamity on November 30, 2020, 03:26:42 AM
It’s definitely a possibility. 

Personally, if they’re going to do this I’d prefer it if they give these different stories their own shows rather than trying to cram it all under one umbrella.  The Mandalorian works because it’s a simple and concise story.  Whilst I’m dying to see these other stories, let’s give them proper room to breath.

Plus, bonus, if any of them turn out to be crap, they can be safely ‘contained’ lol.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: magenb on November 30, 2020, 05:53:04 AM
Quote from: Calamity on November 30, 2020, 03:26:42 AM
Personally, if they’re going to do this I’d prefer it if they give these different stories their own shows rather than trying to cram it all under one umbrella. 

Yeah spot on, the show is barely long enough for any character development for mando, let alone any one else..
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on November 30, 2020, 06:30:14 AM
That was my initial suspicion about Bo-Katan, yeah - spin off.

But I hate it when shows do that. It's like you can see the manicured hand of the marketing department intruding into frame. The show is called THE MANDALORIAN, so just have it be about THE MANDALORIAN.

That said, I did enjoy "The Jedi" more than most recent episodes. Had a good mix of Spaghetti Western and Samurai movie vibes. The Thrawn reference was EYE ROLL but, fine.

I hope the cameos are over. Play that ep back in your head except have Mando do the whole assault w/o Ahsoka and think of how much cooler that would have been.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Grand Master Lomandalis on November 30, 2020, 11:11:03 AM
Quote from: Wyddr on November 30, 2020, 06:30:14 AM
I hope the cameos are over. Play that ep back in your head except have Mando do the whole assault w/o Ahsoka and think of how much cooler that would have been.
I'm a sucker for the intertwining of Star Wars stories and characters, so I don't think it would have been better without Ashoka.  But that's just me.

Quote from: Wyddr on November 30, 2020, 06:30:14 AM
The Thrawn reference was EYE ROLL but, fine.
It was actually that reference that started me thinking about these cameos being the launching point for spin-offs.  At the end of Rebels, Ashoka and Sabine were continuing the search for Ezra after the Rebellion.  The last Ezra was seen was onboard Thrawn's Star Destroyer using the Purrgil to pull it into hyperspace.

So Ashoka asking where Thrawn is was more of an indicator that she is still searching for Ezra.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Sir_Godspeed on November 30, 2020, 01:16:05 PM
Maybe? I could see it with Ahsoka, certainly. I mean... Ahsoka vs. Thrawn? That's probably going to get a lord of SW folks chomping at the bits (not all of them in the right way, admittedly)

But is Bo really that popular? And does it make sense to have a story about reclaiming Mandalore without the Mandalorian? This proposition seems a little more sketchy to me.


In other news, I *really* disliked that Baby Yoda turned out to be *from* Coruscant and the Jedi Temple. I would've much more preferred him to just be some random yoda-species kid caught out in the wide world.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on November 30, 2020, 02:07:08 PM
Quote from: Grand Master Lomandalis on November 30, 2020, 11:11:03 AM
So Ashoka asking where Thrawn is was more of an indicator that she is still searching for Ezra.

This is pretty much a direct indicator of why I didn't like it. Ezra and Thrawn have nothing whatsoever to do with the Mandalorian, and so I don't like the idea of it being dangled in front of us when the story in this specific show has no skin in the game.

To take a separate example of a series that did this "weaving together thing well," let's consider the MCU. In every instance in every movie, the focus and the agency is given to the main characters in the movie in question. Any references to other characters in other films were one-offs without major implications OR were presented after the credits were over, in a kind of coda that had implications for the larger series. In other words, if you watched Guardians of the Galaxy and no other Marvel movies, it made perfect sense and was satisfying on its own. Same with every single other Marvel movie with the exception of Infinity War/Endgame, but those were sequels to dozens of other movies collectively, so they get a pass.

The Mandalorian, on the other hand, has twice now taken its main character and given him second-billing to a character from a different property that, if you hadn't previous knowledge of them, leaves you out of the story. I consider that poor storytelling, full stop, and I find it distracting and irritating.

I realize I've said this several times now, so I'll stop with it, but it's a standing criticism: I don't like it when this is done this way anywhere and for any reason, let alone Star Wars. I didn't even like it when the Globetrotters and Batman and Robin were on Scooby Doo. 
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Grand Master Lomandalis on December 4, 2020, 02:17:52 PM
Wyddr, I know you're not a fan of them bringing old characters into the show, but...


It's snaking on a plane BOBA FETT!!!!!!

In a single scene, he showed off the bad-ass that we always knew he was; which was more than we saw in Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, and Attack of the Clone (with Jango).

*** Note:  Slight chance of fangirlling may be occuring.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on December 4, 2020, 07:20:54 PM
We did kind of know he'd be popping in since the start of the season though so this shouldn't be a surprise. Alas, there goes the economy ship and I've never been a fan of Slave 1.

Edit:  Boba Fett Destroy Two Troop Transport Ship With One Rocket Scene | The (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3VARWPArjM)
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Sir_Godspeed on December 4, 2020, 11:16:39 PM
This was a lot of fun.

I can nitpick later, as of now I'm just gonna stew in enjoyment.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on December 5, 2020, 01:19:52 PM
Haven't seen the episode yet (maybe will by tomorrow night or so). My primary hope is that Mando gets to be in the driver's seat for the episode rather than riding shotgun.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Sir_Godspeed on December 5, 2020, 09:27:21 PM
Yeeeeeah, you might be disappointed then.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on December 5, 2020, 09:42:32 PM
There's a large Idiot Ball quotient.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on December 9, 2020, 06:04:19 AM
I'm getting a little tired of the episodes where there's a single extended firefight and nothing else. When that ended I was like "wait...really?"

Boba Fett was fine. It still felt like the episode was more interested in him than Mando, but Mando did things, at least.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Sir_Godspeed on December 9, 2020, 12:16:27 PM
It's very difficult to introduce Boba Fett (his cameo in ep.1 doesn't really count as a character moment) without getting lost in showing him off, imho. He is a character of some repute.

It would be nice if the episodes were longer though.


On a sidenote, the whole idea of "there's a temple on Tython where you can page Jedi about any force user you find" was such a massive ass-pull that also somehow kinda feels underwhelming for Tython based on how it's presented in the old EU. But then the new canon seems to push a more low-key, "naturalistic" style of Jedi relics and the like, so it might be consistent.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on December 9, 2020, 12:45:02 PM
Quote from: Sir_Godspeed on December  9, 2020, 12:16:27 PM
It's very difficult to introduce Boba Fett (his cameo in ep.1 doesn't really count as a character moment) without getting lost in showing him off, imho. He is a character of some repute.

It is really not that hard. The Empire Strikes Back did it just fine.  ;)
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Calamity on December 9, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
I still have just one gripe...the incompetence of stormtroopers continues to annoy me.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on December 9, 2020, 01:37:04 PM
Quote from: Calamity on December  9, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
I still have just one gripe...the incompetence of stormtroopers continues to annoy me.

I have a raft of gripes. I honestly think I'm starting to dislike this show, which is a shame, as I enjoyed the first season so much. Nothing that made the first season charming is present in this season, though. Even the Child/Grogu is passe at this point.

I mean, there's just so much wrong with the arc this season and with the writing in general, but nobody seems to notice because they keep carting out everyone's favorite characters from ages past for essentially a martial arts demonstration. Boba Fett as a secondary character has some potential, I'll grant, but if these last three episodes are any indication, this is going to go from a "Bad but Fun" show to a "Just Plain Bad Show" by the end of this season. There's only so many cameos you can pull out before everyone notices there's nothing going on behind the curtain.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Grand Master Lomandalis on December 9, 2020, 06:15:58 PM
Quote from: Wyddr on December  9, 2020, 12:45:02 PM
Quote from: Sir_Godspeed on December  9, 2020, 12:16:27 PM
It's very difficult to introduce Boba Fett (his cameo in ep.1 doesn't really count as a character moment) without getting lost in showing him off, imho. He is a character of some repute.

It is really not that hard. The Empire Strikes Back did it just fine.  ;)
Did it, though?  Realistically, if you look back at ESB, what did Boba Fett actually do?

- Look bad ass?  Check...
- Have a couple bad ass lines?  Check...
- Tell the Empire where to find the Falcon?  Check...
- Have aim as bad as the Storm Troopers (you could argue that he wasn't trying to hit Luke, but that's besides the point)?  Ummmm, check?

Throw in Return of the Jedi for good measure:
- Stand around looking imposing?  Check...
- Get tied up by his own cable?  check...
- Get taken out of the fight like a little be-atch by Han randomly smacking his jetpack?  Sigh... check...


Boba Fett had more life brought to his character (canonically speaking) in The Clone Wars than he did in the original trilogy.  As a young teenager, he was the leader for a group of bounty hunters that included the likes of Bossk and Dengar.

Fett had such a build up of expectations since 1980 because of the EU that if they hadn't shown him being a bad-ass, they would have upset a lot more people.

I know you're not a fan of all of the fan service being done in this show, but that is what Star Wars is.  After the original trilogy, it has always been geared towards fans by having the interconnected stories.

I still say that it is too early to pass judgement on the season because of the past three episodes.  From the way the last episode ended, I think Fett and his sniper chick are going to be major characters for the remainder of the season.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on December 10, 2020, 06:31:10 AM
It's true: since the original series, there's been only 2 movies I've liked much and this is/was the only show I've been interested in.

I've already explained the difference between referencing/acknowledging other things in-universe and having those things steal the spotlight, so I'll decline to re-hash the argument.

I'm standing by my prediction. This show takes a nose dive. It's substituting glitz for storytelling (just like the prequels, just like the sequels) and that's gonna wear thin unless they course correct. I don't think they will, either, because the writers, like you, seem to think "that's what Star Wars is."

And maybe they're right! That just doesn't speak well of Star Wars.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Sir_Godspeed on December 10, 2020, 08:34:18 AM
Quote from: Wyddr on December  9, 2020, 12:45:02 PM
Quote from: Sir_Godspeed on December  9, 2020, 12:16:27 PM
It's very difficult to introduce Boba Fett (his cameo in ep.1 doesn't really count as a character moment) without getting lost in showing him off, imho. He is a character of some repute.

It is really not that hard. The Empire Strikes Back did it just fine.  ;)

That's the entire point. He was *not* a character of some repute back then, he was a literal nobody, basically an extra.

Over the 40 years since, he's amassed a ton of mythology and fan appeal, mythology and fan appeal which was *directly* reponsible for this very show existing in the first place.

Now, obviously, you can make fun of that. I've seen tons of sketches and riffs that point out that Boba does beslubber all in the OT and basically only exists in nerds' imaginations and expanded universe novels and somethingsomething manbaby whatever, and that only dorks care. And I get it, that's a valid point, but in a series that exists because LucasArts decided to use that Ye Olden Times fan appeal to build a mythology on him, introducing him as a character becomes something of a "thing", whether you personally like it or not.

At this point, there are so many different ideas of what Star Wars "is" and I've basically dropped out of that conversation because it inevitably escalates to involve way more brainspace that Star Wars deserves, so I'll leave that to others.

I'm having fun so far, but my favorite episodes were definitely the three first ones in season 1. It's debatable whether the series could've continued like that, though. And I am happy for those people who've waited a long time to see their personal faves get the live action screen treatment they hoped for, imho. So, eh, you know, you win some you lose some I guess.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Grand Master Lomandalis on December 10, 2020, 07:05:16 PM
Called it!
(https://i.imgur.com/aAFZfRR.jpg)

They went on a binge announcing everything coming down the pipes.

Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on December 10, 2020, 07:46:26 PM
Also the Rogue Squadron movie in 2023.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on December 10, 2020, 08:40:45 PM
Of all of that, I think Rogue Squadron and Lando sounds the most interesting to me.

And Willow!
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Roboknee77 on December 11, 2020, 02:24:07 PM
Right, so season two of the Mandalorian is basically The Simpsons Spin-Off Showcase.  :P  Or Iron Man 2 or Avengers: Age of Ultron.  Sacrificing the main story for the sake of spin-offs and future content.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on December 11, 2020, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: Roboknee77 on December 11, 2020, 02:24:07 PM
Right, so season two of the Mandalorian is basically The Simpsons Spin-Off Showcase.  :P  Or Iron Man 2 or Avengers: Age of Ultron.  Sacrificing the main story for the sake of spin-offs and future content.

YES, exactly, thank you!

I have the vague hope that now that all these announcements have been made they can get back to letting the Mandalorian star in his own show, but I'm doubtful. We'll see.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on December 17, 2020, 08:54:07 PM
Well, "The Believer" was a breath of fresh air. Amazing how much better that show gets when they use actual character development and focus on the main character.

I hope this is a trend.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Sir_Godspeed on December 18, 2020, 07:51:00 AM
Yup, it was great.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Calamity on December 19, 2020, 06:53:33 PM
It was beautiful.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Sir_Godspeed on December 20, 2020, 11:00:27 PM
Well, damn! Whether you liked or disliked that ending, it sure as hell was *something*, wasn't it?
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Grand Master Lomandalis on December 21, 2020, 02:45:24 AM
The CGI on his face was on the shoddy side, but I am not too proud to admit that I squee'd like a little girl when I saw the X-wing!

I have a feeling that the show is going to turn more towards helping Bo-Katan retake Mandalore. 

But that after-credit scene...

Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on December 21, 2020, 08:01:58 AM
Probably done with the show, I think. Seeing Luke was fun, sure, but when I started this show I was in it to watch a space western about a bounty hunter and the show just is not that anymore. They're making it into just another Star Wars show, and there's a reason I haven't watched most Star Wars shows.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Sir_Godspeed on December 21, 2020, 12:28:02 PM
I totally understand that. I definitely do not want it to delve more into the Force and Jedi than this episode did. I guess the next season is going to go high-politics with Mandalore drama, which I'm not stoked about either, but I suppose there's no going back. At least the characters are enjoyable, and it's still fun as long as I don't think to much about what I'

I guess I can only hope they put in a couple of episodes where the titular bounty hunter actually does some bounty hunting.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Wyddr on December 21, 2020, 01:25:43 PM
My hope at this point is solidly pinned on the Lando show being good. I rather doubt it, though. Star Wars has squandered nearly every good thing they've gotten their hands on, and I shouldn't expect that will change.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on January 1, 2021, 10:51:47 PM
Because I can:
https://twitter.com/CalKcstis/status/1344991027489353728 (https://twitter.com/CalKcstis/status/1344991027489353728)
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on January 5, 2021, 02:36:59 PM
My Fiancé and I just finished watching season 2 of Mandolorian. We really enjoyed it! Seeing Luke at the end was a real treat, and I liked that there was Boba Fett. The episode with the spider monsters was pretty cool too, It was great Seeing Oppa from 'Kim's Convenience' fly an X-Wing.

Never watched any of the other star wars shows, so I don't know who that Jedi lady was before she showed up in this show, but I look forward to more content.

 
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Grand Master Lomandalis on January 5, 2021, 02:38:44 PM
Quote from: Killersquid on January  5, 2021, 02:36:59 PM
Never watched any of the other star wars shows, so I don't know who that Jedi lady was before she showed up in this show, but I look forward to more content.
Take the time and watch through Clone Wars and Rebels.  The short version is that she was Anakin's padawan, but the character developed into so much more than that.
Title: Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
Post by: Calamity on January 5, 2021, 04:05:19 PM
Basically, she starts off as annoying as Jar Jar but evolves to the point that she’s more or less level with Anakin or Luke themselves.  An incredible character arc.