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Author Topic: How to Play Blood Angels Competitively - Part 1: Opening Thoughts  (Read 13655 times)

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Offline Spectral Arbor

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HTPBAC – Part 1: My thoughts on playing Blood Angels competitively

The Short Version:

The Blood Angels' chapter tactic is Furious Charge. If you aren't aiming to use your non-vehicle units in assault, even as a secondary role, you're probably better off taking another chapter's units. Other loyalist chapters get free rules that you could take greater advantage of, instead.

Blood Angels have some unique options available to them, and I believe that by using them, a competitive advantage can be gained against other MEQ armies. On the other hand, there are many unit options that are better off as other chapters, which make taking them in a Blood Angels list less effective by comparison, making said list less competitive.

This work aims to explore list strategies, ultimately eliminating those strategies that are more powerful in other codices, hopefully leaving a strategy that is most powerful within the Blood Angels codex.

Chapter Tactical Inflexibility:

To be blunt, the only time we benefit from our chapter tactic is when we're charging. Note: That isn't to say that we benefit when we're in close combat. We only benefit when we're charging. In all other situations, nearly any other chapter's tactics are more valuable.

Ultramarines can choose their buffs as needed. White Scars can benefit from shooting, charging, breaking off, shooting, and charging again. Imperial Fists have benefits whenever firing a bolt-weapon. Iron Hands are a little tougher than normal, and their vehicles are tougher than standard. Raven Guard have an easier time getting their Jump Pack infantry into assault... though their Jump Pack infantry are not as good as ours can be. Salamanders [You're taking Vulkan, let's be honest.] get some of the best short ranged shooting in the game, and free upgrades to all their characters. 4 Bikers with 2x Meltagun and a combi melta sum at one point less than 5 Assault Marines with the same weaponry, in a free Pod. Said weaponry is more destructive, with the higher accuracy, in the hands of Vulkan's Salamanders. Somewhat more reliable, in that you are more mobile and less likely to be wrecked by a bad scatter. At the very least, they're comparable unit choices.

What, Blood Angels don't have the hands down best melta delivery in the game? Not so cut and dry? 105 pts for a pair of melta is 53 points per melta in an Assault Squad. You can do a pair of Melta on a trio of bikes for 83 points, at 42 points per melta. If you happen to kill your target, you can then chase down something else with the bikes. Sorry my, fellow sons of Sanguinus. I think my honest preference is for Bikes these days. You can fire and assault the same turn, even turn 1 if you're fortunate. ;) Drop Pod Assault Squads are good, but not the only method of delivering Meltaguns. I've been facing off against White Scars a lot, lately. I know. Those bikes carry their cover save with them, and can provide a cover save for units behind them. Invaluable for Jump Packers that want to move directly towards a target.

Black Templars... got a big dry shaft, in a distinctly uncomfortable location. The ear canal, if anyone's curious.

So what do we pull from this?

White Scars are better at protracted combats, and receiving a charge. At close range, they're more able to make repeated shooting attacks if they are assaulted. If on the offensive, they can repeatedly charge a single unit, gaining bonus attacks and “free” rounds of shooting in between. Plus bikes that never die. Like, ever. That pretty much ignore terrain. They don't need to be in Close Combat, but if it's advantageous they can do so, and if it isn't, they can break away. Their units can be geared towards shooting exclusively, if they desire, since they can flee from combat. Nice for anything that wants to shoot, shoot again, and shoot some more. Jumped out of a Drop Pod, and got charged? Hit and Run, baby! Masters of the Alpha, Beta, and Omega strike.

Iron Hands non-vehicles mimic a benefit of our Sanguinary Priests, albeit at a lesser effect. However, it's a free upgrade, and army wide. Their vehicles are innately superior to ours [If we don't pay for a Fast upgrade] as they get a free IWND upgrade. Our Fast upgrades are at a cost, even if it's a reasonable one in most cases. If you want a Chapter Master that just won't die, Iron Hands are for you. If you really like Land Raiders, than an IH Master of the Forge riding inside is going to keep it alive forever. Toss some Honour Guard in said Raider... they're going to make it there. If you want to go heavy into vehicles, it's hard to go wrong with Iron Hands.

Salamanders have more devastating close-quarters shooting weapons, and a Master-Crafted Close Combat upgrade on a Sergeant might balance out the effect of furious charge, after bonus wounds from flamers pre-charge. In a drawn out combat, a Master-Crafted Close Combat weapon pays off round after round. They stack damage up front, in the shooting phase, instead of extra hurt in the assault phase. More powerful Alpha Strike on turns that they can't assault, and are more capable of crippling an opponent before assaulting, lessening the need for overwhelming Close Combat ability. They use “Assault” weapons the way Blood Angels do, but better.

That sounds rather negative:

Well... kind of.

It mostly just means that we need to rely on mobility, to achieve overwhelming force in the assault phase. Unlike many other factions, we REALLY don't want to be doing anything but wiping squads on the charge. Yes, it means we're at risk of suffering return fire, but there's only one way we're benefiting from our Furious Charge, and that's if we're charging. We can't be charging, if we're stuck in combat for multiple turns. Furious Charge generates extra kill-power, and we need it.

Besides, if you're charging with more than one unit, into more than one unit, what's going to be left to shoot you next turn? ;) So that leads to another, more-or-less enforced list building rule. Everything needs to get Close Combat upgrades. A shooty biker Sargeant needs a power fist, because after the bike squad shoots, the squad needs to charge. Without a second Close Combat Weapon, he might as well go for the Fist. The bikes need to charge “Squad A” so that “Squad A” can't shoot the Death Company, that are about to slaughter “Squad B” in a single charge. The Death Company wont need to endure the shooting of “Squad A”, so can then charge and mop up “Squad B” the next turn, without losing overly much to opposing shooting. If The bikes don't sweep their target too, of course.

To that end, we have units that are unique between other Marines and ourselves, in both Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. Both units move faster than infantry, and both units hit like a ton of bricks. Yes, other armies have units that can move fast, and other armies have units that are good in Close Combat, but none combine them like Blood Angels do. Many Marines have Vanguard Vets, or the like, but who uses them? Wolves have Thunderwolf Cavalry, but for Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield, they pay 75 pts a model. To the best of my knowledge, their chapter tactic is Counter Charge, which is an even more situationaly useful ability than Furious Charge is. Sure, they're tough as nails, and punchy as a racist Irish-joke. Blood Angels can put a lot down for the cost of three TWC. We might need to charge, but at least we get to choose that. An opponent needs to choose to charge the Wolves, before they can benefit. Look out, the Fire Warriors are charging me! Said no player, ever.

We can't do Alpha Strike shooting like Scars or Sallies. We don't thrive in drawn out combats, like Scars and Sallies can. We don't have the widespread endurance that Iron Hands have, particularly in their vehicles.

We do well on the charge. We have many ways to boost our Close Combat power. We can take pistol variants that no one else can, which are useful before a charge.

We have Fast vehicles, that can keep up with our high mobility non-vehicles. Those vehicles can protect our other units, by blocking Line of Sight or providing cover. This helps to ensure that the non-vehicles get to their target, while bringing to bear heavy weapons that are otherwise in short supply. In particular, a Fast Predator with Lascannon sponsons can move 6” and fire all weapons. This helps to ensure Line of Sight while adjusting position within a ruin, for example. This triples full BS firepower, compared to a Predator from another codex. We can move 12” and still fire a pair of weapons at full BS. That's useful when chasing down another fast vehicle, or while providing cover to advancing jump Pakers or Bikes. The dramatic improvement in firepower on the move meshes well with Blood Angels' reliance upon mobility.

We can still use units that don't necessarily play into these strengths, so long as they support the mobile units. For example, an opponent wishing to play a gun-line-type army will generally need to deal with targets on a proximity basis. Podding a pair of Dreads down into their line can draw fire away from the more expensive, more critical elements of your army, buying them a turn to advance unscathed, to deliver their assault potential at full strength. Mobile armies that don't wish to be thumped on by Dreads will need to move out of cover, or towards your advancing units to avoid the Dreads. That's good for your advancing units, to ensure they're within charge range.

At the very least, this keeps your army from being completely one-dimensional, and I do like Dreadnaughts. :)

It's a niche market:

There aren't many ways to play Blood Angels competitively. You move very quickly towards your target, shoot it, and then punch it in the face. Rinse and repeat. You need speed to ensure you can wash over your targets like a wave, denying your opponent's firepower though engagement in Close Combat. You can't spend any extra turns in front of your opponent's guns. Even “weak” assault units must charge, to protect the heavy hitters. In doing so, the smashiest of your units can do their best to destroy a unit each turn, while the rest provide support and “pin” targets in place.

I think that's the Blood Angels' strongest strategy. Fast, punchy units, supported by Fast shooty units. Those shooty units should still plan to assault where possible. They can be supported by slower units that force distraction from the main force, or that can force your opponent to change position to allow more reliable assault by the main force.

In order to drive your opponents into you, it can be wise to Drop Pod threatening units behind their line. Such close proximity can make prioritization difficult for your opponent. Do they deal with the podded Dreads, or shoot the Predators that are screening your Death Company? Do they move forward, to deny your Dreads the ability to charge next turn, but then place themselves in range of Sanguinary Guard? Do they charge our podded support units, only to be pinned in place for charges from the advancing Bikers?

Building a List @ 1500 – 1850 Points:

I'm old, and 1500 points has always been my “standard” list size. I've played games all over the board, and I find that 1500 points is still the most challenging value to play at. Most armies don't have enough points to cover all the bases. You are still going to have a weak point somewhere to protect, while you attempt to exploit your opponent's weakness. That said, my area is moving towards 1850 points as the new standard. I find that by building a tight 1500 point list, I can usually add a couple of toys, and then boost the numbers of a squad or two  to fill out the extra points quite easily. In my mind, it's a 1500 point list + 350 more points.

Trying to give list building advice for Blood Angels is tricky, since there are roughly 100 different Dataslates, Formations and Detachments that a person can choose for Blood Angels now. To the best of my knowledge, there are options in the Rulebook, Codex, two Shield of Baal campaign books, and White Dwarf issue/s. There might be more, that's just what I know of.

I'm not fond of our Codex “Troop” choices, in regards to being able to play into a fast moving, punchy playstyle. I know that the 5-man Heavy Flamer Tactical squad in a Pod is pretty popular. Bare bones, you're looking at 115 points. You could instead buy 5 Bikes with 2x Flamers for the same price. If your opponent moves forward, or deploys infiltrators / scouts close to you, you could move, flame + shoot, then charge that target. If that target then moves away, or gets wiped out, you can then rapidly redeploy, turbo boosting if necessary, to remain a part of the game. Tacticals can't do that. All other load-outs can be done by other Chapters, and they generally have more useful CT's to apply to those builds.

You could play “Distraction” Scouts, by infiltrating Close Combat Weapon armed versions close to your opponent. They have the downside of being unable to charge during the first turn, and if your opponent goes first, they'll soak two rounds of shooting plus overwatch before they can charge. That presumes that your opponent isn't mobile enough to keep away from them. Will bike heavy lists be distracted by Scouts? Doubtful, they're going to move off anyway. If the sit'n'shoot units are punchy themselves, such as SW units, or Chaos troops with Close Combat Weapon upgrades, they'll just wait and let you charge while they focus on the real threats. Their babysitting value as an objective camper is questionable, compared to other codices. For example, Iron Hands are more apt to take a Techmarine / Master of the Forge. In doing so, they can boost the save of a ruin, and the Scouts can take cloaks to gain a TEQ cover save, without going to ground. Blood Angels scouts, on the other hand, should be geared to chase down and punch opposing units, which doesn't mesh with sitting around holding the fort.

We have more options, though....

[Half way point... time for a break! See you in a couple days!]

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: How to Play Blood Angels Competitively - Part 1: Opening Thoughts
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2015, 01:12:22 PM »
The Shield of Baal: Deathstorm box has a campaign book that is perfectly valid to pull from, thanks to 7th edition. Within, are Squad Raphen, a 5-Man Death Company “Troops” squad with ridiculously stupid armaments, and Cassor, the Damned.

Cassor is a Death Company Dread, reasonably armed. For a 5 point tax, he is taken as a Troop choice instead of Elite. He can't take a Dedicated Transport Drop Pod, but if you have a spare FA slot, or don't mind risking him in a Storm Raven, you can work around that limitation. You can also run him along the ground, I suppose, though I don't think it would be my preference.

That's all I know of. Since I'd probably play a Death Company Dread anyhow, Cassor is an easy choice for myself.

What are the best options for Battle-forged lists?

Rulebook - Combined Arms Detachment:

I'm not fond of our Troops, and Objective Secured in general. This would be my least useful detachment, most of the time. By taking Cassor as one Troop choice, and delivering him with a Storm Raven, I see this as a FOC that, practically, consists of...

1 HQ, 1 TR, 1-4 EL, 0-3 FA, 1-3 HS

Blood Angels Codex - Baal Strike Force:

Getting better, the extra Elite slot is nice. Trading ObSec for bonus Initiative on the charge is good, presuming you're facing off against armies with a base Initiative of 4 or 5. If you face a base I of 3-, or 6+, the initiative bonus is useless. By taking Cassor as one Troop choice, and delivering him with a Storm Raven, I see this as a FOC that, practically, consists of...

1 HQ, 1 TR, 1-5 EL, 0-3 FA, 1-3 HS

Which is better for me, as I'd want to focus on Elite choices.

Shield of Baal: Exterminatus - Flesh Tearers Strike Force:

My go-to FOC at the moment. Trading ObSec for a roughly 1/6 chance to gain Rage on the charge. Some units, able to reroll their charge distance dice, are more likely to achieve that bonus, but not by a lot. With a Sanguinary Priest leading Sanguinary Guard as my warlord, the only useless Warlord Trait is Blood Mad, but with a re-roll the odds of getting that are very low. The only other trait I'd re-roll is Unstoppable Momentum. Still usable in that you are more likely to sweep an opponent in one round [unless ATSKNF] but it's not as valuable as the other 4 options. By taking Cassor as one Troop choice, and delivering him with an empty FA slot Drop Pod, I see this as a FOC that, practically, consists of...

1 HQ, 0 TR, 1-4 EL, 0-5 FA [after buying a Pod for Cassor], 0-3 HS

And if desired, a 5-Man Scout Tax to take a second FOC makes this...

2 HQ, 1 TR, 1-7 EL, 1-11 FA [after buying a Pod for Cassor], 0-6 HS

And if you can't fit an “unbound” list into that, you're playing something really out there. I probably wouldn't do this until 1850 points, but still. It's pretty crazy when I've been accustomed to a single FOC for so many years.

As an allied Detachment, the FTSF Detachment offers a large number of FA slots to take Drop Pods from, while still allowing the Blood Angels side of things to still have access to a few FA slots of their own.

Shield of Baal: Exterminatus – Archangels Strike Force:

An FOC that's useful if you're...

A: looking to take a squad of Terminators, with a Terminator Librarian... and then want to take some more Terminators or Furioso Dreads.

B: looking to use multiple detachments to free up other Elite slots for Death Company, Sanguinary Guard, or other non-Terminator, non-Furioso choices.

The key drawback to this formation, in my mind, is that you're forced to take an HQ choice in Terminator Armour that isn't a Sanguinary Priest. Since Terminators need a Land Raider or Storm Raven to deliver them, in my opinion, this forced HQ option is less than ideal. I'd want to have a Sanguinary Priest join the Termies. If they ride in a Raven, which would be my preference, there isn't enough room to fit the Libby, 5 Terms aaannd a Sanguinary Priest. I'm not sure where I'd add a Terminator Armour wearing Librarian to, other than to just drop him down onto the field and hope for the best.

The Divination Primaris power [Prescience] will increase the accuracy of Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield Terminators more than a Sanguinary Priest's boost would, but you need to get a WC 2 power off in order for that to happen. Ideally, without suffering perils. Depending on your Metagame, a single Lv1 Psyker facing off against 10+ dispel dice might be painfully unlikely to achieve a successful casting. Psychic powers are just so unreliable now, in my experience, but Captains and Chaplains are far too expensive for what they do, especially once you tack Terminator Armour onto them.

One of the greatest benefits to this detachment is that Drop Pods only scatter 1 d6 inches, which after a 6” move from the Dreadnaught guarantees that you can be in your desired position... unless you fall of the board. Even then, your risk of doing so is greatly diminished. If you want to run Assault Terminators, and a Fragioso, but you're worried about running out of Elite FOC slots, this detachment could ease those concerns.

Of course, if you take a pair of Flesh Tearers detachments, you could free up nearly as many practical Elite options, still have to take an extra HQ [that could be a Sanguinary Priest] and then gain access to a ton of FA slots... though you would then pay for a Scout tax. In perspective, a Terminator Librarian with Storm Shield will be a base of 100 points, while a Sanguinary Priest and Scout squad base at 116, with added Bolt Pistol. I'd prefer the 2nd FTSF, for the extra points, but that's me and the precision Drop Pod landing isn't too critical for my plans.

Shield of Baal: Exterminatus – Archangels Sanguine Wing:

What's not to like about Vanguard Veterans with free Power Weapons? Nothing, that's what! Compared to Sanguinary Guard, the VV can all be equipped with Power Weapons, at 67% of the cost of Sanguinary Guard. At the loss of Master Crafted weapons, and a TEQ save, the VV can gain Storm Shields to be at roughly equal price. Nothing forces you do do so on every VV, so you could mix and match to create a solid balance.

Unfortunately, you need to take a Storm Raven, filled with Sternguard Vets. As a base, you're looking at 220 points inside a 200+ transport. Yes, they could [and should!] be geared towards combis with assault weapons, so that they could hop out of the Raven into short range shooting, before assault. After claiming a location, they could hold the fort, providing support fire from their special Boltgun ammo.

Forcing the VVs to deploy by Deep Strike, however, means they can't possibly assault before turn 3. Without reserve manipulation, there's a good chance they might not be able to assault until turn 4, or even later!

Considering that, and the fact that without any additional upgrades, the formation starts at 860 points, there's not much on the table for the first little while. It makes sense to give the VV a handful of Storm Shields each, and a couple of Power Fists. It makes sense to give the SV sarge a CC upgrade, and maybe equip a couple of the squad with non-combi guns to increase their follow up turns, not that there will be many turns left to take advantage of...

Looking at this formation as a rough-and-ready cost of 1000 points, is more accurate for the way I'd run them. Loosing out on so much power for so many turns is distasteful to me, so I doubt I'd use them.

Shield of Baal: Exterminatus - Strike Force Mortalis:

If you want to use 3 squads of Death Company, 2 Death Company Dreads, a Chaplain and a Storm Raven, than this is for you! The formation bonus gives a bonus attack to any Death Company that is outnumbered in combat. The Chaplain tax isn't too bad, as his rules work well with Death Company. The only particular drawback to this formation is that you're rather stuck using a ton of Death Company.

If you take a Chaplain with Jump Pack, 2x 6-Man squads, 1x 10-Man Death Company squad with Jump Packs and 2x Power Fist or 3x Power Swords per unit, a pair of Dreads with Talons, and a couple of Drop Pods to put them in, you're looking at about 1150 points. It doesn't leave much space for support options, though they arguably don't need much in the way of support. One could, as a reasonable alternative, plan to carry a Death Company squad and a Dread in the Raven, to save some points. One could also expand this formation to fill out 1500 points pretty easily by expanding the size of the Death Company squads, or filling them with Close Combat upgrades, though I think doing so would diminish their competitiveness.

White Dwarf #47 – Angel's Fury Spearhead Force:

So you want to assault from Deep Strike, do you?

Well, here's the right place to start. The requirements are 3 full-sized Tactical Squads, and 3 Storm Ravens. So, without upgrades, you're looking to start at 1020 points. If you want the Tacticals to be anything but space filler, you're going to need to add some upgrades. If we ballpark 40 points worth of upgrades for each squad, that raises the baseline to 1140, leaving 260 points for other units to take advantage of the Deep Strike Reserve... plus... while you get to make a re-rolled reserve roll on the first turn, if nothing shows up first turn, you're cooked.

Even at 1850 points, you'd only have about 610 points to build a detachment from. One that focuses upon Deep Strike assault. Taking Cassor with a Drop Pod as a Troop / FA choice in a FTSF Detachment is a good start, and then you can take a dirt-cheap Sanguinary Priest with a Jump Pack and a squad of Sanguinary Guard to finish up. Not exactly flexible, is it?

Ok, so what are you going to put in a list?

I'm going to save that for the next instalment. :P

My personal preference, as already stated, is for the Flesh Tearers Strike Force Detachment. I want to be able to go into depth regarding unit choices, and the strategy behind those choices. I just don't feel that I have the space to do so here.

The Wrap Up:

It is my opinion that Blood Angels are at their competitive edge when taking advantage of our unique units and abilities, to quickly move forwards to engage in assault. This assault needs fire support, which is available on Bikes for Special Weapons, and on Predators and Storm Ravens for Heavy Weapons.

Deep Strike, and to a lesser extent Infiltrating units can have a role to play, in that they create an “Anvil” within your opponent's deployment zone that you can crush them upon with your rapidly advancing main force. Such units hopefully push your opponent towards your main force, but in a worst case scenario will at least draw fire from the main force.

Thanks for reading! Good luck, and good gaming!

Tom Parks

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Re: How to Play Blood Angels Competitively - Part 1: Opening Thoughts
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2015, 02:22:32 PM »
I think it's difficult these days to look at a codex in it's pure form and think of them as competitive or not.  With the exception of a few of the top tier codexes few can perform well competitively without allies. The blood angels codex is filled without a lot of decent choices but few that I would consider outstanding.  Sanguinary guard and death company will hit like a ton of bricks but they are assault units and this is not the best rule set for assault units. Personally, I feel that blood angels bring a lot to the table as an ally but not as the primary. 

Particularly, I'm looking at the flesh tearers strike force.  It grants access to Storm Ravens to armies that don't have them. The benefits of opening up nearly a full FOC including 6 fast attacks can be a huge boon. The ability to add 6 drop pods to Imperium army with only a single troop tax and a single HQ. Blood angels have some fantastic HQ choices.  Dante (LOW) is a beast in CC and is a boost to any unit deep striking. LVL 2 librarians and mephiston are good choices.  A sanguinary priest is a dirt cheap way to add FNP to any unit.  With the strike force you can take 2 HQs.  The downsides of the Flesh Tearers strike force is that it has mediocre command benefits.   The LVO had a top 8 list using guard veterans with meltas coming in using blood angel drop pods from a flesh tearers strike force.

It's a little disappointing that blood angels aren't that competitive on their own but that seems to be the general state of most codexes in 7th edition.
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Re: How to Play Blood Angels Competitively - Part 1: Opening Thoughts
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2016, 03:15:45 AM »
Flesh Tearers Strike Force Detachment. I want to be able to go into depth regarding unit choices, and the strategy behind those choices. I just don't feel that I have the space to do so here?????


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Re: How to Play Blood Angels Competitively - Part 1: Opening Thoughts
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2016, 03:54:57 AM »
Welcome to the forums!

You absolutely do have the room to do so in a thread.  However, I would recommend that you do so by creating your own thread where the conversation can be specifically directed towards that topic.

Also, I would like to ask that you take a look at our Forum Rules.  The main reason I bring it up is that the last time this thread was posted in was March of 2015.  One of our rules (4e) specifically deals with reviving long dead threads, and that we ask people to not revive threads that are no longer on the front page.

Because of that, I am going to lock this thread.  If you have any questions then please do not hesitate to ask.  You can either message me directly once you have made three posts, or click on the help button at the top of the page to contact the staff directly.
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