Topic: "Bell of lost souls" put necrons on the bottom of the heap

[Kobkit]

Bell of lost souls just put up the bottom eight armies of 40K 5th ed.

Necrons ended up on the bottom.

"16) Necrons – What’s worse than being expensive and ineffective in close assault? Being expensive and ineffective in close assault AND requiring large unit sizes to maximize the benefits of your special abilities. The new assault rules, the new vehicle damage table, the reduced penalty for hitting skimmers in close combat, run and outflank all turn the happy robots into the basement of 40K. Necrons are the only army that got worse in every phase of the game for all their major units (though Flayed Ones and C’tan are at least arguably better)."

Ouch!

No mention that the 5th ed monolith is almost unkillable for most armies.

[Locarno]

Bell of lost souls just put up the bottom eight armies of 40K 5th ed.

Necrons ended up on the bottom.

"16) Necrons – What’s worse than being expensive and ineffective in close assault? Being expensive and ineffective in close assault AND requiring large unit sizes to maximize the benefits of your special abilities. The new assault rules, the new vehicle damage table, the reduced penalty for hitting skimmers in close combat, run and outflank all turn the happy robots into the basement of 40K. Necrons are the only army that got worse in every phase of the game for all their major units (though Flayed Ones and C’tan are at least arguably better)."

Ouch!

No mention that the 5th ed monolith is almost unkillable for most armies.

Actually, even the monolith took a bit of a hit - true, it's now next to immune to ranged gunfire but the skimmer rules means a wraithlord or fex can tonk it silly with disturbing ease.

[uriël1978]

Let's see, I play

16)Necrons
15)Daemonhunters
14)Dark Angels
11) Witchhunters

Aw crap.

Anyway, it's just one guy's personal opinion, not a compilation of tournament results.
But he does have a point about necrons and daemonhunters being bad.

[srasmus4]

I would say he's right, our one strength in 4th ed was that we we're almost unkillable and could just wear people down with attrition, res orb+monolith teleporting us out let us survive close combat, now we're bad in CC other people can get to us faster and we rout more often with the new combat res rules, and if we get caught while routing nothing can give us WBB, and with I2 we get caught a lot.

[Raktra (So long, I guess)]

Guys, BoLS are idiots, don't panic...

These are the 1ksons lovers, the "Guard got better with 5th and KP" crowd and generally full of crap.

Seriously, Necrons are okay. They're MEQs that can hurt anything without upgrades. They'll do okay.

[shaten]

Before you burn the BoS list in effigy lets reread the closing remarks.

Closing Thoughts
And a couple of closing remarks. I’ve recently started playing Warhammer Fantasy as well as 40K, and the balance in 40K is a lot tighter than in Fantasy. I would not recommend that a new player start a bottom half army, but I don’t think there is anything wrong with any army in 40K that skill and practice can’t at least partially mitigate.

Yes the list is a decent rating, and I personally agree with it, but my Sisters of Battle don't care. I also agree that most of the bottom half of the list is good for a beginner, Though I would say I would rate tyranids lower and necrons higher for a first army. I would place Eldar and Darkeldar as the bottom for a first army.

[Droofus]

No mention that the 5th ed monolith is almost unkillable for most armies.

Gotta disagree here.

Most armies can bring strength 9-10 to the table if you include close combat weapons.   Since the monolith is, at best, going to be hit on 4s in cc those strength 10 warbosses/carnifexes/dreadnoughts have a very real chance of punching the monolith into oblivion.

[Archaon]

LIES!

My necrons are currently my only undefeated army! People at my local GW say that they are extremely hard to kill and an extemely effective army. (Even though I'm the only one using them )

Remember MCs don't get 2d6 to attack the monolith, so even though it is no longer hard to hit in CC, it is still hard to actually damage, harder infact in 5th cos of the new damage tables.

I would place dark eldar at the bottom for first army. They require a lot of skill to use well.

[*Striker*]

*Smacks head*

So apparently my blood angels were put behind armies like guard and demons, while my guard were put ahead of everything save for Orks, BTs, and chaos?

Wow...

I think they should stick to rumors.

[Gutstikk]

Rarely lose with CC necrons in 5th ed. I've had people concede at the bottom of turn 2 and 3 against my army. It's just that unfriendly. I've never had that kind of success with my Eldar (or any Eldar build I've fielded).

What BoLS ignores is the high number of high-toughness, save-ignoring, quality armor save units we can put on the table which, when coupled with a reduction to LD7 against the non-fearless sorts, means a whole lot of break tests. Also, against high-power fearless units, Deceiver and Pariahs can force them off the table without even having to engage.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Necrons in 5th ed that can't be corrected by avoiding unfavorable list builds. Even an all warrior/monlith/scarab list can still function alright, with a few monoliths around. I've seen Necron armadas systematically wreck opponents by applying the right pressure at the right time.

Necrons will suffer if you ignore 5th ed strategy when list building, but if you keep the game mechanics in mind, they should do fine.

[Spirit of Kurnous]

havent played necrons in 5th but in 3rd and 4th they were one of my favourite opponents to face (probably alongside nids).  wiped a necron player in a GT in 3 turns while losing nly one squad of rangers (which i put in his deployment zone because it was funny and i could but they got charged by a tomb spider thing)

[Spiritwarroir]

Having be the Ally of my local Necron player in an Apocalypse battle I will have say that they still viable and not on the bottom of the standings.  But they do require more thought that run shot assault which does make them harder to play than some armies out. Now we seem to be in a new round of Codex Creep(real or perceived) so the old armies are looking poor right now, but I lost almost strait for 3 years when I first built my Ghost Eldar now I win more then half the time.  So Time with tell.
IF YOU LIKE THE ARMY PLAY IT.
find what works for you and win or lose have FUN.

[Commissar Mackenzie]

The only big hit from 5th ed was loosing the ability to wreck a tank on glancing hits. Otherwise, we remain the unabated cold killers...

Anyway, in my opinion, "Bottom of the heap" means the lack of news. The last rumor was when....? Last year september, October? When they mentioned new stuff this year.... I guess not only did we find ourself on the bottom of the ratings list, but also on the bottom of the priorities list. I would not be suprised if we do not see a new dex or units til Q2-3 next year. So sad, I was waiting for some good news comming into this year, but it looks like 2009 is all IG and the sons of russ.

[Archaon]

That is true. Have you noticed how all the ones at the bottom are the old un-updated armies. People rate armies high when it's new codex comes out.

[Droofus]

That is true. Have you noticed how all the ones at the bottom are the old un-updated armies. People rate armies high when it's new codex comes out.

Dark Angels are pretty new.  And they're rated pretty low...

[Archaon]

They are still a year or two old. And all the rest execpt the blood angels (and they didn't get a proper codex) are pretty old.

And here's a link to make things easier:
http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/ (near the bottom)

[FarseerWraith07]

The only big hit from 5th ed was loosing the ability to wreck a tank on glancing hits. Otherwise, we remain the unabated cold killers...

Do you know that if you get 2 immobilized rolls on the damage dice, the vehicle is considered destroyed? 

[Spirit of Kurnous]

that doesnt happen until all its weapons are gone too.  once immobilised every immobilised damage after destroys a weapon, once out of weapons you die.

[Commissar Mackenzie]

Exactly; (4th ed) And just to think that a few warriors rapid firing a tank could wreak it... Good Times, Good Times

[srasmus4]

The problem for necrons is that our WBB does not take place until the next turn and then does not count towards combat resolution, therefore in CC our warriors are simply overpriced marines without ATSKNF. sure if we lasted till the next round 50-75% of our casualties would come back due to teleporting out with a monolith but as for now we break easy due to the new combat resolution and with low initiative get run down easy. While I  have not tried CC necrons I imagine using pariahs which are almost as point heavy as terminators puts the phase out count fairly low and with warriors really easy to kill the proliferation of speedy assualt armies can destroy your weak points.