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General 40k / Re: 40k Players Survey
« Last post by Sumshine on November 23, 2021, 05:39:44 PM »
In all honesty, GW need to pull it all back to bare bones, so play testing can be effective. Write everyone's codexes at the same time, release the lot of them (you could still stagger them if you really wanted to) and then use white dwarf to release new stuff as beta rules getting them ready for the next edition, like they did with warhammer fantasy 6th era. As the community keep trying to tell GW, most or the old armies actually have all the tools they need, we don't need new units, we are move than happy with new sculpts that are not space marines ;)

Tbh I see more people posting the opposite than this opinion right now.  They want old codexes "reworked from the ground up" e.g. Nighthaunt and beastmen in AoS.  I haven't really payed attention to 40k specific community in awhile, but the painting discords that I'm on have 40k channels and it seems like similar complaints/requests.  Also, I for one am excited about the announcement about traitor guard, mutants, new possessed, etc for chaos in 2022.  I've always wanted to play the "Lost and the Damned" version of chaos space marines but never had the models.

Overall though, I think I agree with you.  I play so infrequently I would rather the rules just stay the same.  However, IMO 9th edition is waaaaaay better than all the editions I've played, which was primarily 4th, some 5th, and exactly 1 game of 6th.  I like stratagems a lot, and the objectives make things more interesting than they were.  I dislike the smaller board.  I really really really dislike that things aren't balanced, especially within individual codexes.
I found out today that I can't take cultists as coalition units because their new rules only apply when they are in a Slaves to Darkness army.   :(

Apparently the bladebringer just comes on the exalted chariot in the start collecting box, so that is covered.  I'm less sure about the helflayer version that came in the Shadow and Pain box.  I guess I'll worry about it if that ends up being a good combination.  I don't think that model starts with it on there.  I have no idea about a regular seeker chariot.
Projects Blog / Re: Chronicles of the Brush: Iyanden's Journey
« Last post by magenb on November 22, 2021, 04:49:57 PM »
ooooooooooooooooo more pointy ears :)

Nice lighting effects on the fireprism, and I like the black engines and rear door.

If you want to put  the "runes" on the Eldrad model, check out the decal sheets, one of them will have a straight line of runes in one sticker, but it can be cut up so you don't have to free hand it :)
I am actually really struggling with making and sticking with a list.

(Most of this post is to explain more of my reasoning for the above, but I'm not arguing at all, I am really just confused on what I should be doing.)
For the points spent on leaders thing, I got that from Evan Williams (who went 4 and 1 in a GT) in this video with AoS coach: Talkin' Slaanesh | 3rd Edition Warhammer Age of Sigmar - YouTube .  However, since I've never actually played a game before, I could be taking it out of context.  He says that Hedonites need to take 1000 points of heroes.  His list has 4: Glutos (which I have, but every list I see includes him, which makes him seem dull), Keeper of Secrets, Sigvald, and a lord of pain as the general.  He says not to take Sigvald unless he can teleport, because he is fragile and can't just run up the center.  He used Lurid Haze Invader's Host.  My issue with his list is that it doesn't seem fun to play against.  It is designed to assassinate something important with 100% certainty on turn 1.  That would really annoy me, but I listened to the Season of War recap on their GT and it also sounds like nearly everyone has a plan to do something equally terrifying, so maybe I just have to deal with it.  I am somewhat tempted to go ahead and buy the rest of the stuff for his list, just so I know the list is good.

So I don't know if I should also be taking lots of heroes or not for this particular list.  To recap my faction ideally needs to deal 1 point of damage to all enemies in a round and take 1 point (and only 1 point) of damage on everything I brought in order to maximize depravity and summon more crap.  (I know that won't actually happen.)  So having more stuff, especially when it won't die is preferable.  My subfaction Pretenders get a general with 2 command traits, one of which I want to be Craving Stare, and the other doesn't really matter to me.  They also get to reroll 1's to hit if the unit has over 10 models (kind of indicating that they want me to reinforce my stuff).  This subfaction ability actually makes choosing troops more difficult, because reinforcing things makes it less likely for me to get more depravity, since potentially 2 or 3 squads would be rolled into 1 squad in one or more places.  Lastly, I want to make use of wizards to cast 2 spells every round: Phantasmagoria and Soulslice Shards.

Starting with his list as a baseline, I removed Glutos and the Keeper because I can get a lot more units without them == more potential depravity.  Plus Glutos isn't particularly aligned with my subfaction or wizard goals.  He's very good though, so he might be something I have to take eventually.  I just don't want to start the list with him in it.

I put the blissbarb archers in there, because they can shoot twice in a turn, so they could theoretically get 1 more depravity point/turn than the painbringers.  I still need frontline units, so I left those in there.  I added the marauders because 90 points for hopefully 2 more depravity/turn.  And the slickblade seekers just because you recommended them.

A big question that I don't really understand is when buffs and debuffs stack or don't stack.  I know that there's a maximum of +-1 on armor saves.  Is the same true for leadership?  Is the same true for to hit rolls? (I have 3 different things that could subtract -1 to hit, which might be another direction to take it).

Another question supposing leadership debuffs stack is "how low do I need to get leadership for it to be worth doing to a high leadership target?"
My tools that could reduce leadership are:
Phantasmagoria (spell)
Dreadful Visage (endless spell)
Mask of Spiteful beauty (artifact)
Chaos Chosen
Chaos Marauders (on or off horses)

For the sake of argument, let's say I go with Marauders, it looks like I could be reducing a target's leadership by somewhere between 6 and 12 with the average being -8 (if the spells go off).  My low morale unit is 5 and my highest is 10 I think, so either way I *could* get it down to 0.  Soulslice shards and Craving Stare (general ability) would deal a lot of damage and Dark Delusions would auto pass, which frees up command points.  All demon casters get a spell that just adds +1 to hit though, so I don't necessarily need that spell, unless the two spells stack.

Archaeon may be one of my best choices because he has a big aura, I could give him either Phantasmagoria or Soulslice Shards, and he would be the best thing to cast Dreadful Visage.  I really have no idea how to use him effectively though.  Is he supposed to be casting other spells instead?  How bad is he hurt by not being in a Slaves or Tzeentche list?  Is he still worth the points in this list?  If I did take him, then I would need 1 more caster at a minimum that would be casting either phantasmagoria or soulslice shards, whichever he didn't take.  And I'd also need a general that could take an artifact.  The cheapest option that satisfies both options that I think is good would be a bladebringer on exalted chariot, making the other commander ability the +1 to hit beasts because some random person on the internet said that makes it able to kill something that sounded impressive, but I don't remember what it was or if that was accurate.  But either way it is meant to get in close which is what enables the artifact and craving stare.  I assumed that Archaeon was overcosted with the loss of two of his abilities being Slaves to Darkness specific, but he is a Hedonite and would get the faction bonuses (if that matters at all), and I honestly don't know.  I feel like that much power makes him a big target though, especially because most people are going to ignore Archaeon as a target.  Also, I would have to use helreavers and blissbarb archers as my battleline.  I don't want to use demonettes as battleline for sure, which leaves blissbarb archers and helreavers.  I have up to 2 squads of either.  Since neither are super desirable, I'd go with the cheapest of my options 2 units of helreavers and 1 blissbarb.  That leaves me with less than 500 points to get big blobs of units and/or casters to cast the other spells.  I would prefer one of the options that reduces ld, so I'll go with marauders. 1 units of 20, just because I have so few units of hedonites that I can only have 2 coalition units.  I have just enough points to take Twinsouls, so I'll go with that.  When I look at this list, it doesn't seem like I have enough stuff on the field.  I only have 1 melee unit with more than 10 to start with, which is blah for this subfaction. This subfaction is the only one allowed to take that command trait and artifact though, so it seems like this is the one to take if I want to focus on leadership.  I also don't feel like this list has enough units in general.  It also doesn't have room to cast spells outside of my combo.  I think it'd be nice to have a mystic shield caster, a Dark delusions/Acquiescence caster, and maybe others (specifically if I had Synessa, she has a hero snipe spell that only really works with her).

Other questions: I see other people have more than 1 artifact, but Battlescribe never lets me have a second one.  I *think* all I need is more than 1 core battalion, and I always have 2.  The second one is a warlord core battallion, which I think should let me have another enhancement, and I think an artifact is an enhancement.  Shouldn't that be letting me have 3 artifacts?  It'd be nice to also have the amulet of destiny and one to throw in the Fane of Slaanesh.  Am I able to put them all on one commander?

Battlescribe also confuses me with regard to taking Archaeon.  It consisers him a coalition unit even though he has "Hedonite" keyword, but the FAQ says that you can't take a unit with the Khorne keyword as a coalition unit, and he also has that keyword.  Why would it be a Hedonite if I can't have it in a Hedonite list?  Is it or isn't it a coalition unit?

Another concern I have is whether or not the Craving Stare and Mask of Spiteful beauty abilities prevent me from doing something else important.  e.g. finest hour or all out defense.

Here is what I came up with if I prioritize getting troop blobs above 10:
Bladebringer on exalted Seeker Chariot
Mask of spiteful beauty
Craving Stare
Godbeast killer or Master of Magic

Bladebringer on Seeker Chariot
soulslice shards
artifact of some kind

The Masque

Shardspeaker of Slaanesh
Battle Rapture (this is more important with 4 bigish blobs)

2x Blissbarb archers
Helstriders with Hellscourges

Other troops/the blobs:
16 Iron Golems (to sit on an objective)
20 Splintered Fang (mortal wounds)
20 marauders
20 marauders
Malign Sorcery:
Endless Spell: Dreadful Visage

I could save points on the blobs by using more cultists instead of marauders and upgrade the bladebringer on seeker chariot to either hellflayer or exalted chariot depending on if I replaced one or both.  Marauders are better than any of the cultists, and only the unmade give -1 to leadership.  I'm not sure what the two new ones are like, but if I had to choose between the others in this case, I'd probably go with Unmade then Untamed Beasts.

&& I hear you on the painbringers vs blissbarb argument.  I don't think they are as needed in this list because there's a lot of front line troops in the blobs.

I'm not sure how to model the bladebringers onto the exalted chariot/hellflayer/seeker chariot.  Do I just buy a herald and throw it on the chariot somewhere? Or is it more just declaring what it is?  I really hate the herald model, so I might try to find something else if I need to do that.

Excessive rules descriptions removed or rewritten in a vague manner in accordance with forum rule 1.  Please avoid writing out rules and stats - Iris.
Projects Blog / Re: Chronicles of the Brush: Iyanden's Journey
« Last post by Dread on November 21, 2021, 11:54:44 PM »
Simply great to see. Making me want to work on my first love. I have a huge army with some painting needs to be done. Maybe. Anyhow cant wait to see yours done.
So, I'll give a disclaimer here that I am not a Hedonites player, so I don't know their rules inside and out. But I've played them quite often - so here is my take.

Lowering leadership and dealing damage through it is good, for low leadership armies, but note that with how 3rd edition AoS is playing now - higher leadership armies with small model counts are going to really shrug at that combo and not care, not until at least a good number of leadership enhancing models and rules from the opponent.

Synessa is a great synergy piece to a Hedonites army.

Viceleadres are good for cheap casters to buff some units or some debuffs in a pinch.

Contorted Epitome is a great choice for casting, and it's ability to ignore Mortal wounds on a 2+ I think, makes it durable to being sniped.

As for your list -

Don't underestimate a Lord of Pain, I think he has a base ability to deflect wounds on a 5+ back at their foe as mortals, and if you sacrifice an artifact to the fane for a +1 to hit, he can hit back quite a bit hard too.

One thing to note, unless specified in a warscroll or spell description, any particular spell can only be cast once a turn. I don't know if soulspice shards meet that exception or you weren't aware, but I just wanted to mention that.

At the moment, I will say you have way too many points stored in your Leaders.

I would drop one vice leader, and a shardspeaker, and maybe the other vicelord, since three casters are usually plenty in AoS.

Definitely not enough battleline, and I think the box set can definitely help you with this!

I would add in the ten painbringers somehow, and right now I would drop the archers, because of their super inefficient points cost. They are way to expensive at the moment, but that might change entirely with the winter FAQ coming up, so I would hold off on making any extreme changes until then.

Chaos mauraders, I don't think they will be any good in the minimum 10 squad, but I never knew what made them really good initially to begin with.

That said, you are just beginning, so don't feel too much pressure to adhere to my advice. It is perfectly fine to play with the units you have, until you can acquire more that you want :).

That's my take @sumshine, let me know your thoughts and if you have any questions.
Projects Blog / Re: Chronicles of the Brush: Iyanden's Journey
« Last post by Myen'Tal on November 21, 2021, 10:47:50 PM »
Looking great Myen'Tal. That cloak looks great, but I'd almost be tempted to suggest to have some free hand or transfer ruins put on it. It looks like it would be a great candidate. Not sure if its something you tried before, but it's not too difficult.

Thanks, Dog of War!

I agree, will need to some transfers to use soon!

But I have never worked with them before, but it's time I probably did.

What I'm working on:

Chaos Space Marines gain an extra attack from Hateful Assault in the same way that vanilla Space Marines get an attack from Shock Assault.  There was a recent update that changed how Death to the False Emperor works by making it better.  Is it enough to dig them out of the rules deficit they are in now?  Uhhhh, no.  Is it a step in the right direction?  Kind of?

I have an army of Night Lords sitting on my shelf until they receive a new codex.
Chaos Armies (Marines and Daemons) / Re: Tzeentche based melee CSM squad?
« Last post by Wyddr on November 20, 2021, 11:06:59 AM »
I am honestly not certain if the extra attack thing transferred into 9th edition or not, but it seems as though you forgot an extra attack from your chainswords, which is a big deal, yes?

The main problem right now is that CSMs are living in a kind of rules limbo (I think--impossible to keep track of these days) where they don't have the extra wound the loyalists and Plague Marines and Thousand Sons go, so they just aren't very good anymore overall.

I could be wrong, though--it might be they got updates. Generally, however, basic CSMs are shooting units with some reasonable objective holding potential and they are solidly mediocre at assault.
General 40k / Re: 40k Players Survey
« Last post by magenb on November 20, 2021, 06:34:34 AM »

Question: Has GW come close to this in the subsequent years? If not, that would be a huge thing to add (for me) to the survey.

No, you can't scale from a skirmish game to an EPIC sized game with a single rules set. The closest is probably 5th edition which had support materials to do basically kill team scale, combat patrol (2-3 units), to normal games, all the way up to Apoc. If you want to run apoc, set as side a weekend or have multiple players on each side to help move everything lol.  There is a fair amount of cross over in the rules sets though.

I know people have integrated kill team, combat patrols, standard matches AND BFG into their own campaign system, but BFG will use BFG rules. Some campaign start small and build up to an APOC game. So, you can certainly make things work.

5th had  ALOT of additional books, not in the way that 7th and 8th did, they weren't needed to play the base game, they just gave you different ways to enjoy your collection.

Part way through 8th they release a separate "apoc" game, which let you play Apoc scale games in about the same time as a 40k game. It actually needed less dice than a 40k game lol. IT wasn't what people were expecting and they didn't really want this sort of version of the game, so it died out.

EPIC has continued to be supported by the community, for me, it suffers from a lot of the same problems 8th and 9th does with regards to movement vs weapon ranges, and just units being able to scratch tanks to destruction.

GW has basically taken on the video game model, where the game doesn't even have to be working correctly before its shipped (hello BF2042), because they can quickly pump out "patches", and just like video games those patches tend to break other things... 8th and 9th feel very much like you are play testing the game and just when it gets to a decent place, they drop a new version and make all the same "mistakes" again.

In all honesty, GW need to pull it all back to bare bones, so play testing can be effective. Write everyone's codexes at the same time, release the lot of them (you could still stagger them if you really wanted to) and then use white dwarf to release new stuff as beta rules getting them ready for the next edition, like they did with warhammer fantasy 6th era. As the community keep trying to tell GW, most or the old armies actually have all the tools they need, we don't need new units, we are move than happy with new sculpts that are not space marines ;)

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