Topic: Some questions about Wraithguards.

[Rasmus]

I can't imagine a reason why they would not have emotions. They souls are still intact, and preserved in the shell of the wraithguard. I seriously doubt they do not suffer greatly for their people. The dead being emotionless is something zombie-related, and wraithguards are not zombies. Think of them more as physical ghosts (and ghosts are not without emotions).

[Colonel Twisting Shadow]

I'm not copmletely up to snuff on my eldar fluff; but the way I see it, the eldar cycle of life is kind of like hinduism.  You see, the eldar overcome the many challenges of life, and in the end they join the infinity circut, where they have all eternity to meditate/think/rest, kind of like the hinduism, where the final goal is achive a state of nirvana (or enlightenment) where you have all eternity to simply ponder, or think.

If the infinity circut is representative of enlightenment, then wraithguard/lords are (as many have put it) abominations to society; as you aren't grave robbing, but you are instead pulling souls out of an eternal state of bliss so that they may fight for you.  In short, Wraith-constructs deny eldar souls the right to achive the main goal of their society; an eternal state of non-life.

When you look at the path system the eldar have to control their emotions, it really supports my theory (IMO), as each path represents a challenge of life, and when you finish with your path, you are 'reborn' into another life (another path).  Just like in hinduism, where you are reborn after death, and the main purpose of your life is to transcend the endless cycle of birth, life, and death, and reach enlightenment.

Anyway, I could continue, and get more in depth on the eldar-hindu parallels, but that takes me far, far off topic, so I'll end with this:  Eldar are saddened, if not ashamed by wraith constructs, because such soldiers are contradictory to their whole spirituality, as the dead are denied what they have earned - enlightenment.

- Xander

PS; Let's hear it for the revamped boards! Hip Hip HOORAY!!!

[Harmen]

Now, with regards to how this percieved in eldar society, it is generally regarded as a last resort as I imagine the souls are quite happy where they are, in an equivalent of heaven where they are at rest. I think pulling them away is considered not nice.

Accually, the infinity circuit is not like heaven, becaus eit is being used to supervise the Craftworld's machinery, and because it's arteficial. I think the infinity Cricuit is more like not neeidg sleep, without anything to be awake for. Like being able to talk to anyone at once, look through the other dead people's minds without haivng anything to do with the knowledge. Working to keep the ships and stuff online, without beign certain it helps anything, and witohut it really occupying your mind, boring you into eternity.
As such I can hardly understand why it's so bad to become a Wraithuard. It's not a lot of fun I suppose, but you can walk again, do stuff again, you can make a diference, you can live out your rage, without fear of consequences, because all you need to do is fight. Then again, I don't think a Wraithguard would feel that way, because they don't get any hormones, to stimulate your anger anymore. you want to fight, but you only have your mind left, you look around and see sisters, and children and uncles of yours dieing, soon to be joining you in eternal boredom, waiting for the infinity circuits to be destroyed. When you dont get any hormona stimulants during fights anymore there's no adrenaline, no kick in being really really angry, you can finally let go of yourself, and pound all your frustration out at someone, but it doesn't even matter to you anymore, you know its good that you're doing it,but all you noitce is how you are hurting something, not how you are physically superior or something, it isn't evne your own body.
well, that's about my opinion

[TheMightyPikachu]

\Anyway, I could continue, and get more in depth on the eldar-hindu parallels, but that takes me far, far off topic, so I'll end with this: Eldar are saddened, if not ashamed by wraith constructs, because such soldiers are contradictory to their whole spirituality, as the dead are denied what they have earned - enlightenment.

- Xander

PS; Let's hear it for the revamped boards! Hip Hip HOORAY!!!

I see it more like a retirement home than elightenment. You reach enlightenment in life anyways, dying just means you start another one (but if you die enlightened, well, you are now the perfect circle of existence and non existence)

The infinity matrix is an abomination in itself. It is an artificial soul-prison, but one made from necessity. The Eldar used to just reincarnate naturally, but with the warp full of hideous demons, they cannot die the way they normally do. Rather, their souls are trapped in stone, put either in the infinity matrix, or other vessels.

I figure most Eldar view wraith warriors with sadness, but I don't think any out right oppose it. They already send their living to die on foreign soil. The 'dead' are not really dead, they're still alive, just different. Their bodies died, but their spirits are still alive.

Pulling a spirit out of the infinity matrix to fight is no worse than pulling an artist from his studio and telling him to fight.


I imagine being a Wraithguard/lord would be like... drowsy. Like the feeling right when you wake up.

What I find funny that wraithsight makes them slow to react, yet they still have i4 (perhaps it's just instinctive fighting ability that lets them strike as fast as genetically engineered superhuman warriors, despite being drowsy ghosts)

[Harmen]

What I find funny that wraithsight makes them slow to react, yet they still have i4 (perhaps it's just instinctive fighting ability that lets them strike as fast as genetically engineered superhuman warriors, despite being drowsy ghosts)

Well, they are really high tech battle robots, they are slow to respond to changes in the battlefield, but once they verify the target... as in being attacked during wraithsight, or being commanded by someone (/ a warlock) they can be as fast, and reacting faster than humans.

[Kage2020]

The main problem that I have had about the concept of the 'wraith sight' requiring the presence of Seers as some form of 'beacon' is that it severely limits the tactical applicability of Wraithguards.  While there is a certain amount of correspondence with modern military forces in that there are certain units (I would imagine) that require the presence of another to be effective, with the descriptions of wraithguard the level of suspension of disbelief is a tad too much for me.  Furthermore, that the ancestor spirits that witnessed the Great Dance in WD115 watched only a hazy sequence of blurry images, or whatever.

I have always imagined that a spirit within a Waystone - and more particularly a 'spirit stone' (i.e. not a Tear of Isha, but a Waystone that has been implanted into the Infinity Circuit and which may subsequently be removed) - may be able to psychically distinguish the environment surrounding them.  This would very much be the 'blurred image' that is represented of current Wraithguard since the spirit is essentially interacting with the 'closest' level of the warp, one that we might call the 'astral plane' (or the 'etheric') if one were to pilfer from general fantasy literature.  The interaction with 'reality' - the matterium - would be shaded by the extreme emotional content of the local environment, e.g. generally battle.

The level to which the 'spirit' can detect the environment is, of course, related to their general psychic abilities.  Some 'spirits' are incapable of interacting or sensing the environment outside of the Waystone/'spirit stone'. 

On the other hand you have the Way/spirit stones that are linked to sensors that are capable of translating information from the 'matterium' into something that they can understand.  After all, this is not too different from the process of being able to record 'memories' (remembering that the spirits within the Waystones are something more than souls) or the other 'gadgets' of the eldar technomantic society.

But that's just me.  Ye 'ole heretic, as it were.

Kage