News: No news is good news...

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy  (Read 39739 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Calus Drakin

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1966
  • Country: us
  • Armies: Night Lords, Eldar
Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« on: February 22, 2009, 04:29:45 AM »
Many people that get into Warhammer Fantasy begin their GW hobby with Warhammer 40k. Or vice-versa. A lot of this overlap tends to begin with the overall judgement that they are similar games. To a degree, they are. But most of these similarities are in appearances only. The only real rules that overlap both systems are the To Hit and To Wound damage charts.

Movement

Warhammer 40k is a skirmish game. Units are loosely bunched together, can move in any direction and generally have fun in terrain. Movement values are generic and with the exception of a few unit types, are the same throughout all the armies. There is also only a single type of movement in the movement phase, although the fact that Warhammer 40k is a skirmish game is the main reason for this.

Warhammer Fantasy is a unit game. Some units operate in a skirmish formation, but most will be bunched together, base-to-base, in groups of 10, 15, 20, or even more models to a unit. These units have facings, which are front, back and flanks. A unit can only move to the front, unless it spends part of it's movement allowance turning to face a new direction. Different units in different armies also have different movement values. A unit of core troops in one army might have a movement value of 4, while a unit of core troops in another one might have a movement value of 5 or 6. Warhammer Fantasy also has several different types of movement that can happen. Which includes movement directed by the player, which can consist of normal movement, marching, or charging into combat. There is also compulsory movement, where units more often move about on their own, usually in a direction either toward the table edge or in a completely random direction.

Shooting

Shooting in Warhammer 40k and shooting in Warhammer Fantasy follow the same "to hit" charts. However, in Warhammer 40k, the roll the chart says you need to hit is all you have to worry about. In Warhammer Fantasy, the roll the chart says you need to hit can be moved up or down depending on modifiers such as long range, shooting at lone characters and skirmishers, or shooting at a large target. In addition, shooting in Warhammer 40k is much more important, since it's a skirmish game it allows the whole unit to shoot; while Warhammer Fantasy with it's block unit structure is much more restrictive in which models can shoot. Missile fire is also much rarer in Fantasy. It's entirely possible to field a whole army without a single ranged attack, while in Warhammer 40k, there is no such thing.

Close Combat

Getting into close combat is different in both games. In Warhammer Fantasy, charging into combat is done in the movement phase and is reliant on which direction the unit is facing and how far they can move, while in Warhammer 40k, charging into combat is done at the beginning of the assault phase and is done at a generic rate similar to how movement is done. The skirmishing formations of Warhammer 40k also mean that direction is irrelevant when charging, making it tricky to get around units without either charging them or being charged. Close Combat in both Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy use the same "To Hit" and "To Wound" tables. Neither game includes general modifiers to the "To Hit" table. Although Warhammer 40k does have a special rule that affects the "To Hit" roll, and Warhammer Fantasy has magical items which can add bonuses or penalties. Rolling "To Wound" likewise has several ways to affect the roll in both games without having any general rules. The rules for armour saves, however, is fairly different between them. In Warhammer 40k, armour saves are common and never modified, they are commonly denied entirely instead. In Warhammer Fantasy though, while armour saves are sometimes denied entirely, they are also commonly modified due to high strength attacks. Combat resolution is also different. In Warhammer 40k, combats are won or lost based solely on the number of wounds inflicted. While in Warhammer Fantasy there is static combat resolution, which makes it entirely possible to win a combat without even inflicting a single wound on the opponent. The form of the units also make a significant difference in combat. The skirmishing formation in Warhammer 40k allows all models in the unit to get into base contact to fight, allowing for a lot more attacks, while the unit block formation of Warhammer Fantasy vastly restricts the number of models in contact and fighting.

Psychology

Psychology is a very important aspect of Warhammer Fantasy as opposed to Warhammer 40k. While Warhammer 40k does have morale checks for certain situations, Warhammer Fantasy has panic tests, break tests, Hatred, Frenzy and a myrad of other rules that count as psychology that can drastically affect the flow of the game and provide bonuses and penalties in close combat.

While not the single most important aspect of Fantasy, games can easily be won or lost based on psychology tests. An unprepared general can quickly find his army fleeing the battlefield with no hope of recovering or being led around by the nose and unable to perform their duties. Being prepared is not as easy as it may sound though, and sometimes the dice will turn against you regardless of the steps you take to ensure success. What follows is a list of psychological terms in Warhammer Fantasy, how to be ready to deal with them, and also how to use them against an unwary opponent.

Panic

Panic is one of the most commonly occuring psychology tests a general can face during a game. It can appear in many forms, including from shooting casualties and from units being broken, destroyed or fleeing too close to other units. Quite a few armies have Ld values high enough to ignore these tests the vast majority of the time and some armies have rules which allow them to ignore the tests completely in certain situations. Still, a bad roll can break up an otherwise imperturbable battle-line and create gaps a clever opponent could quickly exploit.

There are ways to protect yourself from these situations though. The first good way to protect yourself is high numbers of troops. The more models in a unit, the more have to die in a single round before the test happens and the harder it becomes for an opponent to reach that number. Another good tactic is to include a character in the unit. He can give the unit his Ld, which, although it might not be a big difference, can sometimes be the difference between the unit fleeing at the worst possible moment and holding steady. Taking a musician is also a good idea, it's a plan for the worst, since he won't actually help prevent you from failing the test, but he does give you a bonus to rallying should you fail. There are also a multitude of magic items that either make you immune to panic or allow you to rally without the worry about a test, any of which are good if you think you're going to be taking a lot of tests.

A clever general can also use Panic to his advantage. One way to do this is to focus your shooting. A panic test kicks in once a quarter of the unit has fallen so it is a good idea to focus enough shooting onto one unit to force the test before moving on to shooting other targets. Another tactic is if you find yourself facing a fairly uniform battleline with a powerful unit. If you know you can break any of the units in the line on the charge, then you should probably aim for the center, since once the unit is broken, the units on both sides will then be taking panic tests and if you get lucky what was once an intimidating shield wall turns into an unruly mass of fleeing models.

Fear

Fear is the most common test you'll see in Warhammer Fantasy. Every army has at least one unit that causes Fear or they have access to a magic banner or item that makes the unit carrying it cause Fear. Fear is also one of the less effective psychology tests, since a failed test doesn't necessarily mean your unit is running screaming from the field.

Fear is one of the easier psychology tests to prepare for. The easiest way to be ready is to face Fear with Fear. Units that cause Fear, aren't affected by Fear, thereby negating any worries about failing the test. Whether the unit itself actually causes Fear or carries a magic banner or item that gives it to them doesn't matter, as long as they cause Fear, they won't fear it. Large unit sizes will also help out here, since as long as your Fear-causing opponent's don't outnumber you, even a failed test won't be as much to worry about as it could be. A failed test will still make things harder, but not having to worry about rallying is much better then the alternative. Here also, things that help you rally will be good to prepare for the worst, since the fewer tests you have to take, the fewer you have to worry about failing.

Fear can be a very potent tool for those generals that decide to use it. Some entire armies, such as Undead and Daemons actually lack units that don't cause Fear. Undead can be especially dangerous when it comes to Fear, since they are likely to have large units to guarantee outnumber due to the cheap cost of their models. Fear is also a good way to protect a smaller, more valuable unit, since whether they outnumber or not, a failed fear test on a charge attempt means no charge, allowing your smaller unit to get the charge instead or maneuver away and out of charge range for the next turn.

Terror

Terror is an upgraded version of Fear, you don't have to outnumber, and a failed test means the same thing whether you're trying to charge, being charged, or just nearby. Fortunately though, creatures that cause Terror are few and far between and are usually expensive enough that most general's won't just throw them out into the open where they can quickly get shot down. Also keep in mind that once your unit has taken a Terror test, pass or fail, it only counts as Fear for the rest of the game. After all, after you've been scared witless the first time, you don't have the brains left to have it happen again.

Fear is your friend here. Units that cause Fear only test for Fear against something that causes Terror against everything else. This makes it much easier to take since almost never will you be outnumbered by something that causes Terror. Outside of Fear though, your best option is to include characters to raise the testing Ld of your units or to prepare for the worst and have several methods available to boost your chances of rallying. The very best option though, is to never take the test. Most things that cause Terror, you can identify as such fairly quickly and focus enough firepower on to take down long before it gets close enough to terrify you.

Using Terror is a bit more difficult. Since it's going to be fairly obvious when something causes it and it becomes a fire magnet. Dragons ? Meet Cannonballs. Still, the best way to get the most out of a Terror causing unit is to get it up close as fast as possible to as many units as possible. Since the more tests you make your opponent take, the more likely he is to fail one. For this purpose, creatures that fly are the best. Move up behind terrain to protect him from being shot and then on the next turn drop down behind his line in Terror range of as many units as possible. This also works well because the initial reaction to Terror is to flee from the creature causing it, meaning if they fail a test caused by a creature in their rear, they're fleeing out toward the middle of the board and hopefully into charge range of one of your other units.

Magic

Magic is a purely Warhammer Fantasy aspect. There are some correlations between Magic and Psychic abilities in Warhammer 40k, but these are more aesthetics then anything else. Psychic abilities in Warhammer 40k are generally used during the phase in which the ability's effect is most simliar to other activities. Abilities that work as shooting attacks are done in the shooting phase, ones that move the model are used in the movement phase. Magic in Warhammer Fantasy gets it's own phase during which all spells are played out.

So really, while Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k share a name, company and a few generic tables there is very little to compare them to each other with ruleswise. So while a lot of people will look at them and just assume they're fairly similar games, it's really comparing Apples to Oranges. They're both fruit, with colors that are close, but that's really about all you can compare between them. Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k are two seperate games, requiring knowledge of different rulesets and requiring different tactics and strategies to win and they deserve to be treated as such.
« Last Edit: March 2, 2009, 04:10:27 AM by Lonewolf »
Considering my chosen armies are Vampire Counts and Night Lords, yes, I think "Back from the dead" is probably the most accurate description of my return.

Vampire Counts
     1 / 1 / 1

Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

  • Skarboy | Ripper | Princess of Baal
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6524
  • Country: gb
  • Armies: Grey Knights
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2009, 08:03:41 AM »
You've already covered the biggest change. Movement is enormously different in Fantasy and can win games all by itself.

You forgot Psychology in your list down there ;)


Expanding on combat res and psychology:

Careful and tactical use of these rules can mean a game is won without any models being killed. Fear and Terror causers are the prime culprits of tricks such as this, whereas large, ranked up units can quickly rack up combat resolution without swinging a blow, and thus drive their enemy away through sheer mass (this is best shown when elite units, such as cavalry, is are faced with massed infantry).

« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 01:38:28 PM by Lonewolf »

Offline Spirit of Kurnous

  • Infinity Circuit
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2636
  • Country: 00
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2009, 08:51:36 AM »
movement stats - not everybody moves the same which is how it should be.
movement types - move normally, march (run), charge.  no move, shoot, assault.  if you are going to charge someone charge them.  as it should be.
charge reactions - someone scary charging towards you and you cant beat them, run away.

to hit mods - trying to shoot a target a long way away in a wood, thats harder to do.  shooting whilst moving, thats harder to do. as it should be.

save mods - get hit by something strong enough your armour has less chance of protecting you, not all or nothing.  as it should be.

psychology - something scary opposing you, lets see if your troups are brave enough to charge it.  as it should be.

pretty much all or most of these rules were once part of 40k and are rules that make fantasy the better game now they are out of 40k.

It has been simplified over and over again over the years.  because the lasers and tanks appeal to the younger audience.  so if it was fantasy level complicated alot of these wouldnt play (just look at fantasy players in your local GW, most are adults).
they get more new players through 40k this way, which means more new customers who alot of the time will only play for a few years before giving up, but by this time GW has their worth out of them.
things i would add back to 40k are move stats, to hit mods and save mods.  i mean everyone can do basic subtraction so really its not or never has been complicated.

this is all good though as it means fantasy doesnt get screwed over too much and will remain the better game.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 01:38:28 PM by Lonewolf »
40k:
Eldar=12000pts
Slaanesh Deamons = 2000pts

Fantasy:
Slaanesh=5000pts      
Wood Elves=6000pts
Slaanesh Deamons = 3000pts
High Elves 3000pts

Offline MagicJuggler

  • Juggling a load of balls
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2012
  • Country: 00
  • Nobody expects the Spanish Ynquisition.
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2009, 11:56:53 AM »
40k is more "user friendly" though. Seeing as it was the better selling game, GW would want to simplify it so that it could sell more to a younger (or less intelligent) audience.

One reason 40k is so popular is because it is far more heroic in terms of characters being more than simple auxiliary characters. 5th-edition Fantasy was seriously overpowered with Herohammer yet 6th and 7th cut too deep and battles are less a matter of epic-scale magic and more a matter of gaining the Static CR advantage...which is less fantastical overall than having a leader characer with a really big chainsaw pwning all.

Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

  • Skarboy | Ripper | Princess of Baal
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6524
  • Country: gb
  • Armies: Grey Knights
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2009, 01:43:59 PM »
Perhaps add in "And other hot topics" into the title :P

Characters are still steamroller units, no matter the edition. Take a Tzeentch or Nurgle Lord, for example. Kit him out with the Armour of Morrslieb, a daemonic mount, shield, Axe of Khorne and Favour of the Gods. Charge him into a block of infantry and their attacks will bounce off him while he is unleashing 5-6 S6-7 attacks and his mount does pretty much the same, hitting almost everything in the game on 3+ while they'll be hitting back on 5 or 6. I doubt even Greatswords or Black Orcs would be able to reliably stand against that.

Offline Greg23

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 980
  • Country: us
  • I *LOVE* EO and 40K.ca
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2009, 03:14:50 PM »
I would like to dispel the myth that 40k is shooty and Fantasy is not.  There are lots of examples in Fantasy where shooty armies do exist.

Stand and shoot.  I'd give my left arm if my Tau could do this.  They'd own 40k if this were possible.

No cover saves.  There's a penalty to hit, but once hit, there's no generic 4+ "ward" cover save.  Grots and skinks beware.

Area Terrain vs True LOS:  Generally, in Fantasy, if you're out in the open, your fair game.  No shoot through terrain.  Also, moving through terrain blows in Fantasy.  Plus hills and Large Targets give decent LOS.

Blackpowder (AP) weapons and High Strength shots.  Bolters in 40k bounce off Marine armor, but Bret Knights get trashed by an Empire gunline.

Warmachines vs Heavy Weapons.  Yes, 40k has more heavy weapons.  But in Fantasy, the warmachines are bad news when they do hit.  A Bloodthirster in 40k can take a Lascannon shot will survive.  A great cannon in Fantasy can drop a Bloodthirster in one shot.

Special Warmachines.  Hellblast vollygun.  I hate that thing.  Makes a Space Marine Devestator squad look like Swooping Hawks when it hits.  Goblin Doom Diver and Skaven Lighting Cannon are no fun, either.


Offline Calus Drakin

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1966
  • Country: us
  • Armies: Night Lords, Eldar
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2009, 03:24:41 PM »
40k is shooty. EVERY unit barring a few rare ones carry guns. As opposed to Fantasy, where there are entire armies that have access to ONE unit with the capacity to shoot something. VC's only shooting attack is the Banshee, which isn't technically a shooting attack. WoC have the Hellcannon and Marauder Horsemen with throwing axes. Yes, some armies in Fantasy, specifically Wood Elves and some other Elven, Empire and Dwarf builds, can be fairly shooty, but in the same vein, you can have entire games where you skip the shooting phase completely. This means 40k is much more shooty then Fantasy.

Just because shooting is more devastating in Fantasy then it is in 40k doesn't mean the game is more geared towards it. Just imagine if shooting in 40k was as devastating as it is in Fantasy. There would be no such thing as an Assault phase. Everything would get shot down before it made it halfway across the board.
Considering my chosen armies are Vampire Counts and Night Lords, yes, I think "Back from the dead" is probably the most accurate description of my return.

Vampire Counts
     1 / 1 / 1

Offline MagicJuggler

  • Juggling a load of balls
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2012
  • Country: 00
  • Nobody expects the Spanish Ynquisition.
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2009, 03:27:35 PM »
And some armies like Skaven and Dwarfs, can be very VERY Shooty.

Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

  • Skarboy | Ripper | Princess of Baal
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6524
  • Country: gb
  • Armies: Grey Knights
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2009, 03:31:56 PM »
That's just been covered MJ ;)

Calus brings up a very good point - how many armies in 40k (not including daemons) will NEVER have a ranged weapon in their army list? I can count them without using fingers.

Offline Tibel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
  • Country: us
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2009, 04:08:42 PM »
First off I don’t play Fantasy, but in 40k there are armies that are considered “shooty” or close combat or assault orientated.  Example would be a CSM list with a bunch of Berzerkers.  While they have pistols that can shoot, those pistols are not used as frequently as their close combat weapons.  In fact those pistols are generally only used right before an assault.  While they can shoot, I would never call a Berzerker squad a ranged unit.
 
What I am trying to get at is that even though the Chaos Berzerker has a ranged attack, he is a close combat troop, the 40k equivalent of a Fantasy troop with literally no ranged attack.
I didn't get where I am today by worrying about how I was going to feel tomorrow.

Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

  • Skarboy | Ripper | Princess of Baal
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6524
  • Country: gb
  • Armies: Grey Knights
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2009, 04:10:53 PM »
Why did you say assault oriented and close combat? They are the same build.

While a Berzerker may be the equivalent of a Chaos Warrior, it doens't take away the fact that they actually have a ranged weapon. It's a huge difference. If Chaos Warriors were able to have crossbows (which they should really), it would make them exponentially more powerful than they already are.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 04:13:03 PM by Raktra »

Offline Calus Drakin

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1966
  • Country: us
  • Armies: Night Lords, Eldar
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2009, 04:42:31 PM »
And if shooting was as effective in 40k as it is in Fantasy then would people even take Berserkers ? Probably not unless GW made them much faster. Under the rules used for Fantasy, a unit of 10 berzerkers gets targeted by a unit of 10 smurfs with a heavy bolter. There won't be enough 'zerkers left to make an impact by the time they get into combat. IF they make it at all.
Considering my chosen armies are Vampire Counts and Night Lords, yes, I think "Back from the dead" is probably the most accurate description of my return.

Vampire Counts
     1 / 1 / 1

Offline Greg23

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 980
  • Country: us
  • I *LOVE* EO and 40K.ca
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2009, 07:23:07 PM »
Under the rules for Fantasy, the average Space Marine would be a beast.  Straight *** stats, psychology/break test perks, gromril armor + shield, move and shoot X-bow, 2x shots, some real decent upgrades.  It's just not a fair comparison.

Maybe people misunderstood me if I ment 40k wasn't shooty.  No doubt, it is.  But to dismiss Fantasy as not shooty is not correct.

40k is more forgiving for moving and shooting, lightyears better than Fantasy.   

Those Lighning Cannons and Stonethrowers pack a punch when they hit, but they never move.  If a warmachine does move in Fantasy, it's usually a WoC player cursing his die roll as his Hellcannon looks for something to eat.  Or a Steam Tank.

Meanwhile, 40k has Leman Russes, Hammerheads, Land Raiders, Fire Prism, etc etc.

Likewise, Fantasy rank and file troops tend to stand still to fire in long thin gunlines with their 90°fire arcs.  The skirmish nature of 40k lets individual squads to bounce around and shoot 360°, maximizing the squad's shooting efficiency.

Offline MagicJuggler

  • Juggling a load of balls
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2012
  • Country: 00
  • Nobody expects the Spanish Ynquisition.
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2009, 07:38:30 PM »
In summary, 40k is fantasy with less psychology items, and everyone is either a monster or skirmisher.

Offline Calus Drakin

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1966
  • Country: us
  • Armies: Night Lords, Eldar
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2009, 11:06:49 PM »
Quote
Maybe people misunderstood me if I ment 40k wasn't shooty.  No doubt, it is.  But to dismiss Fantasy as not shooty is not correct.

Nobody has said Fantasy is not shooty. What has been said is that 40k is MORE shooty. Almost EVERY unit in 40k carries a ranged weapon. Whether that weapon gets used is another thing entirely. While in Fantasy, it's possible to field antire armies without a single shooting attack and while you can also build armies that focus heavily on shooting, you will NEVER see a Fantasy army where every model has a ranged weapon. It just doesn't work as a tactic in Fantasy. Generally speaking, most Fantasy armies when they bring their guns to the field, still won't field more then 40% of their points at most on ranged units.

Quote
In summary, 40k is fantasy with less psychology items, and everyone is either a monster or skirmisher.

Really, this is a poor comment. The difference is much more then that, hence the need for this article. For instance you forgot Magic, movement modes, modifiers, combat resolution and don't forget the entire FOC is different. Plus 40k has a lot more skirmishers then Fantasy ( like EVERY unit in 40k )
Considering my chosen armies are Vampire Counts and Night Lords, yes, I think "Back from the dead" is probably the most accurate description of my return.

Vampire Counts
     1 / 1 / 1

Offline MagicJuggler

  • Juggling a load of balls
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2012
  • Country: 00
  • Nobody expects the Spanish Ynquisition.
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2009, 11:24:52 PM »
I said everyone is either a monster or skirmisher, because 40k doesn't use combat modifiers save for the who killed more crap dead. So what if infantry are streamlined to be 6 inches standard with running? Big freaking deal. Call it divergence from 2nd ed if you will where there were movement values...

Offline Spirit of Kurnous

  • Infinity Circuit
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2636
  • Country: 00
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2009, 07:24:45 AM »
40k is more "user friendly" though. Seeing as it was the better selling game, GW would want to simplify it so that it could sell more to a younger (or less intelligent) audience.

One reason 40k is so popular is because it is far more heroic in terms of characters being more than simple auxiliary characters. 5th-edition Fantasy was seriously overpowered with Herohammer yet 6th and 7th cut too deep and battles are less a matter of epic-scale magic and more a matter of gaining the Static CR advantage...which is less fantastical overall than having a leader characer with a really big chainsaw pwning all.

thats totally wrong.
characters in 40k are barely more than their basic elite from the list.  look at a marine chapter master compared to a vet sgt.  he gets +1 WS/BS, +2W, +1A and +1LD.  hardly a heroic character.
compare that to fantasy where your army general compared to a unit leader usually gets +3 WS/BS, +1S/T, +2W, +2A, +2 LD, far more heroic.
whfb has alot more heroic people than 40k, but thats because fantasy across any setting is full of heroes.  go back to 2nd ed 40k and thats where you find your heroes, they used to be on par with fantasy heroes for stats (marine commander would be WS/BS 7, S/T 5, 3-4 attacks and ld10)
40k:
Eldar=12000pts
Slaanesh Deamons = 2000pts

Fantasy:
Slaanesh=5000pts      
Wood Elves=6000pts
Slaanesh Deamons = 3000pts
High Elves 3000pts

Offline MagicJuggler

  • Juggling a load of balls
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2012
  • Country: 00
  • Nobody expects the Spanish Ynquisition.
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2009, 03:09:48 PM »
And look at the relative costs of heroes from Fantasy and 40k. Fantasy does give you way more unit options in terms of raw killing ability, yet at the same time you're paying through the roof for such powers, that you wonder if a sword of might is really worth the price of 3 more soldiers. Save for Orks whom have the Shokk Attack Gun and Kustom Forcefield, most factions in 40k have cheap upgrades relative to the power they provide (e.g. Powerfists)

Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

  • Skarboy | Ripper | Princess of Baal
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6524
  • Country: gb
  • Armies: Grey Knights
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2009, 06:49:33 PM »
Considering the average size of Fantasy games being much larger than 40k, the high price for characters is a moot point.

Offline MagicJuggler

  • Juggling a load of balls
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2012
  • Country: 00
  • Nobody expects the Spanish Ynquisition.
Re: Differences between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2009, 07:42:31 PM »
1500 vs. 2250 pts. Of course, Fantasy also has better-quality troops at cheaper prices, and getting a shield-bearing Night Goblin at 3 points a pop is just beautiful. That said, it really is more than 40k a game of timing your charges correct...unless you're Elves and can ASF everything but that's besides the point.

 


Powered by EzPortal