Topic: Imperial Forces mixing together?

[Major Arah]

The problem here is that Abnett's Eisenhorn/Raveonor series is full of anti-grav vehicles in the civvy population.

I think what the problem is is the lack of combat capable anti-grav.
It might be easy to make, say a car float and fly, but not a tank. And I'd rather have a flying tank rather then a flying car in battle.

exactly... but remember in the last eisenhorn book his Spaeton House gets pwned by a bunch of mercenaries with combat capable speeders... which is really frustrating since either Abnett is rogue in the sense that he is going against conventional fluff. Or it is possible though uncommon for IG to actually use these speeders based on what world they come from.

[Iron-Guardsman 2413]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but do the Valkryie and Vulture count as Antigrav?

The Valkryie must be able to hover because Stormtroopers can use rapelling lines out of it... at least I am 85% certain they can. But that doesn't mean its antigrav, I know.

In an Imperium of a million worlds 'rare' is a subjective term. Some Regiments never see a Plasma Gun, while some have them dripping out their ears. The Vanquisher was supposed to be very rare at one point, but that may still be 'true.'

Any way, Imperial forces do mix together under the all seeing eye of the Inquisition! Survival is also a great motivator towards co-operation!

[The GrimSqueaker]

The Valk and Vult are both thrust engine designs without anti-grav. They're more like a Harrier than a Land Speeder.

[myles]

Any way, Imperial forces do mix together under the all seeing eye of the Inquisition! Survival is also a great motivator towards co-operation!

An inquisitor may call upon both Imperial Guard and Space Marines to so something for her at the same time, but that is not really what we're talking about here. IG and SM work together all the time actually, there's nothing uncommon about that at all. What they don't do is share their equipment and personnel.

Even if an inquisitor gets IG and SM together they aren't about to integrate their command structures and logistical operations, and they certainly aren't about to start driving marines around in Chimeras while the Stormtroopers ride in on thunderhawks. Even when working together SM and IG aren't 'mixed,' they're still very much separate entities.

On a very small scale, like perhaps an inquisitor only requisitions two or three space marines and a couple squads of stormtroopers, for example, then you may see something like the SM taking a command role over the guardsmen, or riding around in a chimera with them. But if you're talking about a fully militarized level, like during a war or something, even if an inquisitor demanded it, a whole group of space marines would be unlikely to break up their normal operational structure in order to integrate with IG. And really, it would be a waste of resources for them to do so in the first place, and only a very foolish or ignorant inquisitor would ask that of them to begin with.

[Iron-Guardsman 2413]

Agreed.

Would I be correct in thinking that an example of what you are saying is in 'Xenos,' the first Eisenhorn book when the Deathwatch squad split up amongst the Inquisitors?

[myles]

I haven't read it, so I'm afraid I couldn't comment on that particular example.

However, Deathwatch in general are a good example of what I was talking about. Normally Deathwatch marines operate in small groups, like one or two small squads. At that level it wouldn't be unlikely for individual marines to break off and operate independently or with other non-marines.

It's not like SM are averse to working directly with others as a rule, (although some chapters look down on ordinary humans)  it's just that they have their own organization and tactics, as well as superhuman endurance, so it just isn't efficient for them to work with IG, sisters, the local PDF, etc. Neither group is trained to work together, and the non-marines won't be able to keep up. Also, the marines are almost assuredly more familiar and experienced with their battle tactics and effectiveness than an outside party, so while they might be willing to follow some general guidelines laid out by an outside party that is in charge, they probably won't bother allowing people to meddle in the specifics of their tactical operations.

But that doesn't really apply if there isn't a whole group of marines waging a campaign together, if it's just a few squads following an inquisitor's orders they wouldn't really be any more effective if they went gallivanting off on their own. Especially so if the Inquisitor is still scoping out the situation, and the Marines don't have a specific target they need to deal with.

[Major Arah]

Would I be correct in thinking that an example of what you are saying is in 'Xenos,' the first Eisenhorn book when the Deathwatch squad split up amongst the Inquisitors?

That is exactly true but then we have to remember that this was a massive inquisitorial undertaking and i think there werent too many marines. Also i think the main reason for them being split up was because they knew there are CSM on the same planet so they wanted marines in each squad so that they could deal with the CSM or just to hold the morale.

It's not like SM are averse to working directly with others as a rule, (although some chapters look down on ordinary humans)  it's just that they have their own organization and tactics, as well as superhuman endurance, so it just isn't efficient for them to work with IG, sisters, the local PDF, etc.

This is not entirely true. The SM on average have about half a life time more of battle experience than your average PDF or IG. so it is not uncommon to have SM train up local PDF that are not experienced with dealing with a new kind of foe that threatens their Planet. For example in the Ultramarine's Book Warriors of Ultramar. The Ultramarines arrive a few weeks prior to a Nid invasion. And as we know the Ultramrines have considerable experience dealing with the Nids and as such the first order of buisiness was to train up the local forces to deal with them.

[myles]

It's not like SM are averse to working directly with others as a rule, (although some chapters look down on ordinary humans)  it's just that they have their own organization and tactics, as well as superhuman endurance, so it just isn't efficient for them to work with IG, sisters, the local PDF, etc.

This is not entirely true. The SM on average have about half a life time more of battle experience than your average PDF or IG. so it is not uncommon to have SM train up local PDF that are not experienced with dealing with a new kind of foe that threatens their Planet. For example in the Ultramarine's Book Warriors of Ultramar. The Ultramarines arrive a few weeks prior to a Nid invasion. And as we know the Ultramrines have considerable experience dealing with the Nids and as such the first order of buisiness was to train up the local forces to deal with them.

That is true, especially in the case of Ultramarines, who always seem to be meddling in other people's business. Like I said, it's not as if they have anything against non-marines. But when they were done training the local forces, did they then fight with the local forces, or did they fight alongside the locals? Because there is a big difference between instructing inexperienced/ignorant PDF or IG on how to fight a foe they have no experience against and instructing and training PDF or IG on how to integrate into a space marine command structure and fight alongside marines.