Hello 10th Edition

Started by The GrimSqueaker, March 26, 2023, 10:35:00 PM

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Wyddr

It does seem like they're toning back some of the OTT stuff that's plagued the game since about midway through 8th edition or so.

I still need cover to work again. Basically all of my Incredible Evaporating Infantry in the Guard, Tau, and even Marines need that.

Also, I still don't quite see much of an assault game going on, which is a shame.

magenb

it looks like a number of improvements, enough for me to want to try the game again. I just hope it doesn't follow the same path of 8th where it was fun to start but turns into a buckets of re-rollable dice lol.


Sir_Godspeed

Quote from: magenb on April 17, 2023, 12:31:50 AM
it looks like a number of improvements, enough for me to want to try the game again. I just hope it doesn't follow the same path of 8th where it was fun to start but turns into a buckets of re-rollable dice lol.

Maybe I'm cynical, but isn't that kind of a money-making strategy of GW's? Just pile on increasing complexity and potential power creep to entice more sales?

Wyddr

#23
It is, yeah, though it got *markedly* worse in 8th/9th, in my opinion. Part of it is the accelerated release schedule. We complained about it at the time, but there was something to be said for having codex rules stay more-or-less fixed for 5-6 years and there being fewer factions to balance.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/19/transports-are-the-fast-and-flexible-way-to-travel-the-new-edition-in-style/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=drtransport19042023&fbclid=IwAR3nzOq37tW4sE2eeP12On0uS8cNAAVAUV3DBzuAZV3m7Cy358_63t_1B68

5th Edition called - it wants its transport rules back.

Grand Master Lomandalis

It got worse in 9th because it became very obvious that GW's method was "make this the top army for the meta chasers, then nerf it in 2 months to make it balanced."  With how fast the turn around was, if people wanted to waste money buying the latest and greatest, I say let them.  I would much rather this method for codexes than the previous one.

Keep in mind that Grey Knights went from 2003 to 2011 without getting a codex.  Dark Angels went from 2007 to 2013 without getting a codex.  Believe me when I say that a fast turn around on the meta is infinitely preferable to languishing with outdated rules for 2.5 editions.
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Wyddr

#25
I dunno - it wasn't until 9th edition that I had army lists invalidated *twice* before I could actually finish buying them.

The focus on tourney balance is toxic. I realize it's not going away, but it makes the game hard to play in a casual, take-your-time kinda way. Huge barrier to entry, imho.

Back in older editions, you had like two years to gather together a force, build, paint, and that thing would still exist by the time you were done. Now? You have 6 months before the tourney meta requires a point balance shift and rule changes, so you're always stuck reacting to a meta you aren't even playing in. It sucks.

Gotta be a middle ground.

EDIT: New cover rules dropped. More cover to go around, but weaker in some ways. Not substantially different, which is a shame. Hopefully AP is kept under control, but generally speaking I'm disappointed. It's back to LOS-blockers or "doesn't really matter" as our two categories.

Sir_Godspeed

From what I understand, Warhammer is basically unbalanceable to begin with, so adding MORE variables isn't exactly making things easier.

Myen'Tal

Well, the launch box is officially revealed!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/29/pious-heroes-and-deluded-cannibals-come-to-blows-over-mismatching-chivalric-codes-in-warcry/

A lot of the space marine models look cool, but a lot of status quo too.

I love the majority of the new tyranid sculpts, though! I think I am now convinced to play the hive mind in the future!
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Radec

I flicked through the leaked core rules. Looks like 10th may be a slightly better 9th. I really hope, after fragging my two codexes after barely a year of life, that the new books will be better than the ones in 9th, which were beginning to look a lot like late 7th ed. ones - 10 pages of story, 100 pages of rules... I've got atleast 150 games in 9th (which is a lot less than the ones I had before 8th which I skipped altogether for lack of players...) and in its closing days am left with mixed feelings about it... The whole couple of months rush of playing matched play tournament book, before the next one rears its head around the corner, is something I'm definitely not looking forward to.

Wyddr

Totally agreed, Radec, though I need to flip 8th and 9th--I played a TON of 8th, but really only a little bit of 9th. It's quite legitimately my least favorite edition.

I think 10th will be *slightly* better, but I'm still thinking tabling opponents will be pretty easy unless the "big Ls" are there to block LOS. The big jump in vehicle survivability will mean mechanized is probably back in, and probably being used as hero-delivery devices, so there's going to be some major 4th edition vibes, too. But infantry are going to get mulched in rapid fashion, no matter what, and there remains nowhere you can survive except behind a building.

I haven't looked at the new rules yet, but can you confirm if Command Re-Roll is staying/going? If there was one thing that I was like "this is the worst thing in the game," it's that.

Radec

Command re-roll is staying and you can re-roll some additional specific stuff. After all the promises about strict handing of re-rolls and invulnerable saves, I can find some kind of re-roll and inv save in virtually every faciton focus. The SM faction can chose a unit every turn and the whole army re-rolls everything against it, the new dread gets re-rolls, Guilliman grants re-rolls as well if I'm not mistaken... It's not just the marines I wager - I think 10th will be just as guilty of mass re-rolls and inv saves as 9th...

Wyddr

And so nothing will be fixed and the only change will be list composition, really.

The mission hardly matters if you can kill *everything* by turn 3.

Calamity

Well that all sounds disappointing.  And I was getting quite enthusiastic about the direction they were going in too. 

Radec

Well, atleast in 9th I've rarely have seen a complete wipe out with minimal losses from the other side, the way it used to happen pre-8th. Atleast we've got this going for 10th. I like the game better overall and think that 10th will be enjoyable enough. It's just that everytime they miss the mark on something... If they go away with the a bit too often chapter approved and patching nonsense and buff up the story and art sections in the codexes the way they used to be, now that the rules are supposed to be able to be crammed in less space than before, than I'd say I would be content enough. I'm already used to the other irritating things fron 9th anyway...

Wyddr

I've never had a 9th Edition game where I haven't tabled or virtually tabled my opponent by Turn 3.

Granted, I've played this game a long time and I've got a small gaming group these days, but I'm not THAT good that such an outcome should be standard. I determined it was primarily terrain dependent: without big LOS-blocking terrain (the "Ls"), the game doesn't work. All other cover is pointless, and seems it will still be so.

magenb

Quote from: Wyddr on May 21, 2023, 08:25:32 PM
I've never had a 9th Edition game where I haven't tabled or virtually tabled my opponent by Turn 3.

Yeah, with 8th and 9th it become very obvious that this would be the case, and didn't make for interesting games, so we've kept playing 5th ed. I see 10th trying to wind it back, but given the rules so far, I don't think they have gone far enough to stop this from happening, it will be especially so against causal players. If GW wants to fix this, they will have to go back to balancing based on the armies just trying to kill each other, then apply objectives on top, rather than using objectives to balance out the lack of killing or survivability.

I'll still give 10th a try though, got to get my Admech of the shelf lol :)

Wyddr

I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't buy the 10th ed rules and give it a shot.

But I'm probably only playing Chaos Knights, since they're the easiest to transport and the hardest for GW to beslubber with after the fact. If I need to reassess my collection, I just have to buy one (1) big-ass model and not dozens.

Calamity

Drukhari are out today...more faction wide rerolls...thought that was all being done away with?  :P

Wyddr

Quote from: Calamity on May 29, 2023, 11:55:58 AM
Drukhari are out today...more faction wide rerolls...thought that was all being done away with?  :P

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My biggest thought here was that blasters got a big nerf overall. S8 will not dent tanks too well (T9+), making one wonder what you'd take them for, now. I guess a lot of that depends on cost. I'm honestly hoping they'll follow the Sigmar route and have the units be at fixed sizes for set points but have all the options free. Lord knows I won't shell out 15 points for a Blaster anymore. 

Radec

Quote from: Wyddr on May 29, 2023, 09:57:29 PM
My biggest thought here was that blasters got a big nerf overall. S8 will not dent tanks too well (T9+), making one wonder what you'd take them for, now.
Ny guess would be multi-wound infantry/bikes/cavalry and lighter vehicles like harlequin starweavers, land speeders etc. One-shotting a death guard termie isn't that bad...

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