Topic: The Lion Returns!

[Wyddr]

The model is awesome and the stats for Lion El Jonson have been released!
Thoughts?

My initial thought is that he's a bit...ridiculous? I mean, I feel that about all the Primarchs, but 20 attacks from one model? I mean COME ON!

I feel like this kind of stat-bloat is *all over* the game and it's one of the major issues I hope 10th fixes. There's no call for such silliness.

[Roboknee77]

I agree with you that the model looks amazing.

I also think you're right about the 20 attacks.  I think the designers said to themselves, "It's ridiculous, but who cares, he's getting new stats in 3 months anyways, so let's go nuts." 

[Sir_Godspeed]

It looks great, but overall I'm wary of the whole primarch return thing. It's inevitable though, so might as well enjoy it as much as I can.

[Wyddr]

It looks great, but overall I'm wary of the whole primarch return thing. It's inevitable though, so might as well enjoy it as much as I can.

I don't mind that they're back, but I never liked the whole "they're invincible GIANTS" thing taken literally.

[Grand Master Lomandalis]

It looks great, but overall I'm wary of the whole primarch return thing. It's inevitable though, so might as well enjoy it as much as I can.

I don't mind that they're back, but I never liked the whole "they're invincible GIANTS" thing taken literally.

To be fair, he's only got a 2+/4+.  I'm interested to see what the rest of his rules are, though.  Yeah, the ten base attacks are insane (don't forget that he gets Shock Assault). I would have been fine with the 10 attacks and just his smash profile, to be honest.  Even that feels excessive, but I am definitely not complaining

[The GrimSqueaker]

Just how large is your erection right now? 

It's a lot and I'm on team beslubber off Primarchs as they're not necessary. However, least he's an old crotchety geezer which is identifiable.

[Wyddr]

To be fair, he's only got a 2+/4+.

This statement - lamenting what was once the best defensive stats in the game as too weak - is proof that the game is totally off the rails.

[Grand Master Lomandalis]

Just how large is your erection right now? 

Dude... I went through sooooo many pairs of shorts when the model was revealed 

To be fair, he's only got a 2+/4+.

This statement - lamenting what was once the best defensive stats in the game as too weak - is proof that the game is totally off the rails.

The last time it was the best defensive stat in the game was 4th edition.  That was also an era where the 2+ was only negated by the strongest of weapons.  Now, weapons that were AP3 and wouldn't have negated the 2+ save are now AP-2 and reduce the 2+ to their 4+ invulnerable save.

GW has been moving away from 3++ saves for a while now.  The only two models that still maintain it are Draigo and Guilliman (as far as I know).

[Grand Master Lomandalis]

The rules dropped today, and I must admit that I am a little disappointed.  https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/b4fH6GbUcsq3HetQ.pdf

Yes, he is a combat monster.  If he goes first, he can and will kill everything around him.  But there is also just so much wrong with him.

• His buff aura to Dark Angels is a slightly better combination of Captain and Lieutenant, and it's only better because it can work with characters.
• No CP bonus for being the greatest battlefield tactician of the Imperium?  Azrael, his Chapter Master, is a better tactician?
• Inner Circle, while fluff, is only a detriment to him as it means there is a 1/36 possibility he will not fall back from combat should you ever wish that to happen
• As a Monster, Inner Circle doesn't give him Transhuman because he isn't infantry
• His Warlord trait only giving one unit an extended HI seems kind of weak, to be honest.  I would have been happy with him getting any of the traits in the codex... or getting multiple like many Supreme Commanders do.
• Forestwalk isn't as great as people make it out to be.  Yes, it is a more reliable deep strike to get in to combat, but it is far too easy for your opponent to control the table and dictate where the Lion comes in. 

The one thing I do find funny is that he has the Supreme Commander keyword, but Guilliman doesn't.  So, while the Lion is a Supreme Commander, he will pass on being the Warlord to Guilliman... even though he isn't a Supreme Commander.  Even better, is that you can only take 1 SC in an Ark of Omen detachment, which means you can fit both primarchs in like the cheese eating git that I am