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Offline -Lazuli-

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Using low model count armies
« on: May 6, 2010, 10:46:53 AM »
I was wondering if anyone uses armies with low moodel counts likecdeathwing. Are they competitive? I was going to use this List for a tournament:

sanguinor

Dante

sanguinary guard
infernus pistol powerfist chapter standard

sanguinary guard
2 inferns pistol deathmasks powerfist
sanguinary guard
infernus pistol powerfist


Is this list competitive?
Also a list sw lost with two lone wolves in terminator armor 2 termy squads and Logan grimmar. Is that competitive?

Offline malicant

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Re: Using low model count armies
« Reply #1 on: May 6, 2010, 10:59:42 AM »
Generally, I find that armies like deathwing are favoured by models and painters as opposed to gamers as they allow for plenty of conversion and a high level of painting with few models to build.

In game terms, I can't say much about what you've suggested but I can tell you that super small armies often will suffer immensely against certain opponents whilst excelling with others.  In either case though, every model lost is a hard blow so mistakes must be few and far between.

Offline Guildmage Aech

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Re: Using low model count armies
« Reply #2 on: May 6, 2010, 11:22:16 AM »
Model count isn't a direct link to effectiveness, after all you can make an army with a high model count that isn't effective too.

But looking at your army list I'd say that what you're planning to field is probably suicide in most games, I have no doubt that you'll get a good few kills but I don't see you winning the day very often. Even in kill point games the advantage of having fewer units is outwieghed by the risk of being wiped out...
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Offline Paraplegic

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Re: Using low model count armies
« Reply #3 on: May 6, 2010, 12:31:32 PM »
The only time I saw pure deathwing be somewhat competitive was in a tri-raider list format. Usually it's a dualwing list that I'll see at a tournament or being critiqued for tournament use.


Offline BaileyBankai, The epic ninja duck

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Re: Using low model count armies
« Reply #4 on: May 6, 2010, 12:58:53 PM »
The problem with low model count armies is you dont have much backup if the dice go against you Just once and that will cripple you alot. Also you will have to field you army strait on the table, no reserve or you will be taken apart piecemeal, and if you go second against a gunline or heavy firepower you will loose alot quickly. Last you will have a lack of scoring units which are very important in 5th ed. so by all means do it for fluff/ hobby but for competative not so much.

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Offline -Lazuli-

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Re: Using low model count armies
« Reply #5 on: May 6, 2010, 03:22:01 PM »
Thanks guys. I wanted to do this for the hobby aspect. I am taking the army to a tournament. It is senario based and not very many objectives. Also there is ALOT of terrain to hide behind.

Offline g3nius_monkey

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Re: Using low model count armies
« Reply #6 on: May 6, 2010, 04:32:09 PM »
I have to agree with Hymirl and say that your list doesn't look very good. It's not because it has a low model count; it's just that there's not a whole lot too it. Even if you're trying to make a low model count army like Deathwing, you still want to include units that can pick up some slack in other parts of the list.

Deathwing armies that do well generally have a Ravenwing element to them as well. I know a guy who plays his deathwing army with three terminator squads, a scout bike squad, a land speeder and a whirlwind tank, and from what I've heard he does very well with them.

Also, low model count armies only do well because they're paired with some kind of gimmick to them. For instance, Deathwing armies have a rule that makes their terminators Scoring, and they also get a special type of deep strike that allows most of their terminators to come in on the first turn. The Sanguinary Guard list has something similar, in that they're also turned into troops and they too have special deep striking rules.

I fooled around and made a Dante list the other day. I can't remember the points costs but it was something like

1x Dante

3x Sangiunary Guard (PFist, Infernos Pistol, Death Masks)

1x Stormraven Gunship
1x Baal Predator


The two vehicles are necessary to the list because they provide support to the infantry. To play the list you'd have to pick one side of the enemy line and hit it with all that you had. The rest of your opponents army would mostly be left unable to engage until you were ready for them, otherwise you would get picked apart too fast.

I can tell you for a fact that the Woof Guard list doesn't work, only because I've slaughtered it about 5 times already (you weren't the first one to come up with the idea trust me, and you won't be the last). It basically suffers because it doesn't have any gimmicks to it that allow it to make up for its low model count, and Terminators are actually pretty easy to pick off if you lay down enough fire on them.

EDIT: I changed my mind about the Woof Guard list. I'm not going to say it can never work, it's just that I've never seen a player take the right approach to it. If you were to split up your Guard into smaller groups (as opposed to two really big ones), give them some better ranged capacity (most players I've fought only give them a single assault cannon, and the rest have frost weapons and thunder hammers), and then give them some way to close on the enemy line (like mounting a group in a Drop Pod), then it MIGHT work, but you'd definitely have to try, and Logan would definitely have to pull his weight around the table.
« Last Edit: May 6, 2010, 04:36:00 PM by g3nius_monkey »
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Offline -Lazuli-

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Re: Using low model count armies
« Reply #7 on: May 7, 2010, 09:20:44 AM »
Thanks, I didn't make the wolf guard list. Actually both lists were copy pasted from somewhere on warseer. I will consider the dualwing list. If this small models lists don't work than I will make one just to paint.

Offline Tarrin the Space Marine

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Re: Using low model count armies
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2010, 08:52:30 AM »
its a 1000 points i think (rough maths).

Its a risky list (like direct assault on a star destroyer risky) but it oozes class. 

Style over substance every time. Any fool can pick up a cookie cutter list and use it. Not everyone has the balls to do something like this.

I am behind you 100% on this.

Sensible head on says you could swap out the sanginator for a 3rd squad of guard.



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Offline malicant

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Re: Using low model count armies
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2010, 10:01:08 AM »
Thanks guys. I wanted to do this for the hobby aspect. I am taking the army to a tournament. It is senario based and not very many objectives. Also there is ALOT of terrain to hide behind.

I seen a deathwing army at a tournament before and the guy did ok, better than me anyway :D.

But he did win the best army award and he deserved it.  It was littered with awesome conversions and had a superb paint job.  So much so that I was tempted to start one myself but I managed to hold back that desire.  This could be something to aim for for your army?

Offline -Lazuli-

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Re: Using low model count armies
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2010, 10:33:29 AM »
 1500 points

Dante

3 Sanguinary Guard Squads

2 Dreads with drop pods

idk what upgrades though. If there's room I want sanguinary priests in it too.

 


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