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Offline BikesRFun

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My buddy's having a problem
« on: February 16, 2009, 01:07:48 PM »
He plays sisters of battle and he's having a hugely hard time winning against his Eldar friend. This Eldar player likes to max out the heavy support slots with one reaper squad, one fireprism, and a team of walkers. He also loves Harlequins and will go out of his way to take them. With whatever he has left, he'll take a few squads of Jetbike Guardians, some warp spiders or he'll trick out his autarch on a bike. Any suggestions for a 1000 or 2000 (separate answers please) point battle? Should he take allies? If so, which ones.
Thanks a bunch guys.

Offline -Dark Fire-

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Re: My buddy's having a problem
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2009, 01:31:40 PM »
Welcome to the forums mate :D. Three points really: 1. Why doesn't your friend sign up and ask himself lol? 2. Could you give us a list of what he has available/willing to spend :P? Could you post his standard list? 3. Any more specifics on the Eldar list - mech., gunline or hybrid? Weapons on the War Walkers? Number 2 is the most important really, then I (we) can chuck out/ critique a few lists. Thnx /CF Edit: Don't take allies for the moment - more faith and IMO better synergy when pure SofB.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 01:35:14 PM by Cleansing Flame »
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Offline Boss Zargore

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Re: My buddy's having a problem
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2009, 01:49:21 PM »
First, I might ask how your friend fields his sisters. What sort of units is he using/what does he have access to/how does he use them.

Well, I'll take a stab at it here for you.

Have him try mounting up in rhinos. Foot slogging sisters would be to slow to deal with a speedy Eldar list like this. But if he can play it smart, watch ranges closely, and use the Rhino's not only as transports, but mobile walls for other units, he should do okay.

Harlies shouldn't survive a squad of sisters rapid firing them, especially a squad with flamer and heavy flamers too. Have the girls drive up, jump out, and flame away. Just make sure they're not being baited by another unit, like the Dark Reapers.

Exorcists should really help against walkers and fireprisms. Even the autarch should fear exorcist missles. I recommend 2 exo's for almost any battle. Try to make sure you get the first shot with them, hide them in terrain first turn. Or behind Rhinos.

In the 2000 range, try an assassin. Callidous or Eversor should help you against units hiding in the backfield. Either one could take care of a squad of Reapers, or jetbikes. (BTW, to take the assassin you need an Inquisitor. Try not to spend many points on him, as he's usually a point sink IMO, and probably won't help you much in this instance.)

Also at 2K, Seraphim. Run them behind your advancing Rhinos for cover. They should be able to handle anything you listed in close combat, aside from the Autarch, and even then, maybe. This Eldar list is one of the rare ones where sisters can have a slight close combat advantage. Have the Seraphim help out any sisters stuck in CC.

Jump packing Cannoness +Blessed Weapon or Eviscerator for the win.

Learn your faith points. Use them constantly. Use them whenever they will help. Better to use them in the first three turns to do damage and protect your girls than to have a bunch sitting turn 5 and no girls left. Use spirit of the martyr on any squad that looks like it might take Dark Reaper fire/Autarch charge/Harlie charge/etc. Use Diving guidance constantly. The Eldar list looks like it depends on his 3+ saves, any chance to deny him those will hurt him.

Last bit of advice. Play aggressively, but watch his charge ranges. If you can push him back to his board edge, he'll have less places to run to.

Anyway, good luck! Maybe try posting a battle report too, we could give some play advice on that.

Edit: Also, I agree with Cleansing flame, skip the allies. Usually more sisters are better.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 01:50:51 PM by Boss Zargore »

Offline BikesRFun

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Re: My buddy's having a problem
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2009, 02:00:51 PM »
Thanks for the welcome.

He wouldn't come on here because he's the type to be too proud to ask for in this fashion, haha.

The eldar player plays hybrid. Using his tanks very aggressively while forcing the inv. save faith points with his reapers from the back field. His 'Prism will also stay back as well.

The CC units are transported to the sister squads to tie them up.

I think the main problem is that he tries to use foot-slogging sisters. I'll probably advise him to take as many Rhinos as possible. I'm guessing they're going to want smoke launchers as well, right?

Every game I've seen him play he always takes a kitted out Inquisitor. I've always thought the Cannoness was a better HQ choice...

Offline Gornon

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Re: My buddy's having a problem
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2009, 03:38:07 PM »
Quote
I think the main problem is that he tries to use foot-slogging sisters. I'll probably advise him to take as many Rhinos as possible. I'm guessing they're going to want smoke launchers as well, right?

Every game I've seen him play he always takes a kitted out Inquisitor. I've always thought the Cannoness was a better HQ choice...

You just said the problems right there.  He is using an Inquisitor, not a good unit, and it takes away from the Faith Pool.  The other is foot slogging Sisters.  Reapers kill MEQs.  However, Rhinos laugh at Reapers.  Well, they can immobilize them, but the odds of that are fairly minimal, more so with smoke launchers.  Even the Heavy 4 Multi-laser the Eldar get will have some trouble, if he uses his Rhino's carefully.

Also, make sure the board has lots of cover on it.  Use the 25% rule.  2/3s of the terrain should be things that block LOS or interferes with it, giving a cover save to tanks.  That cover matters.  My gun line Guard once faced off against a Mech Eldar list with little terrain.  Game was over Turn 2. 

As for allies, I disagree with Flame there.  As always, what is effective depends on playstyle.  I find that I.G. make great allies (and hopefully still will after the new dex comes out.)  The trick is to make sure that 2/3rds of your list is Battle Sister wile but 1/3 is I.G.  This gives you some Troops to hold objectives on your side of the map, freeing your BSS to take objectives on the other side.  In addition, it gives the girls some much needed long range firepower.  Of course, you lose out on Faith Points, and usually miss out on the CC support Seraphem provide.  For a newer player, I would not suggest Allies.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 03:51:58 PM by Gornon »
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Offline -Dark Fire-

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Re: My buddy's having a problem
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2009, 04:04:44 PM »
Try this List @1000 for size, Cheap Inq. and Canoness, 3 Troops, 2 Exorcists, Callidus

HQ/
Canoness w/Bolter, Book                                     @47
Would ride with the 9-woman squad, basically there for the faith

Elite/
Inquisitor w/Plasma Pistol/Combi-Plasma                 @60
Cheap, allows the Callidus and rides with Plasma Troopers to kill all the 3+ saves and War Walkers around. He doesn't ride with Sisters becasue that would stop them using Faith

Callidus                                                               @XXX
Rips the Dark Reapers a new cavity :D - can move and fight normally on the time she arrives from reserves - anywhere on the field

Troops/
5xStorm Trooper w/2xPlasma, Rhino,                    @125
Plasma Spam for taking down JBs (and Autarch - Instant Death). Scoring Unit

10xBattle Sister w/2xFlamer, Vet w/Book               @194
                          Rhino, Smoke
Captures Objectives, Flames Harlequins. Smoke prevents them being nailed before arriving. Divine Guidance to rend Jetbikes and Spiders 

9xBattle Sister w/2x Flamer, Vet w/Book                @178
                          Rhino,
Rides with Canoness. Captures Objectives, Flames Harlequins. Smoke prevents them being nailed before arriving. Divine Guidance to rend Jetbikes and Spiders

Heavy Support/
2x Exorcist                                                         @270
Both sit back and murder JBs, try and destroy the Prism first. If the Autarch goes solo, rocket his face ;)

Comes to 999, 3 Troops, 28 models, 5 vehicles, 4 Faith, 11KP
Extended Tactics later, got to go (did make fuller version earlier but computer crashed lol).

Right, I'm back and added stuff below each unit.
I know the Canoness and Inquisitor need more gear, but 1000 points is all about bodies on the table IMO. Though about flying Canoness of Death but to include 2 not 1 Exorcist (/2 not 3 troop choices) had to go as cheap as possible.

With three troop choices on the table then this list should have no problem capturing objectives. 5 vehicles will be hard to deal with for the Eldar, exceptionally hard. The strength 5 Reapers can't scratch the rhinos before they get nailed by the Callidus. If the Walkers have Missile Launchers, target them with Exorcists. Any Shuricannons on the Jetbikes will do little, especially with smoke.

4 Faith for a few crucial acts, Divine Guidance to combat the many 3+ saves. Don't worry about the multitude of KPs, they'll be hard to get for the Eldar army you described (though please try get the armaments of the War Walkers). 

If it was me I'd not take an Inquisitor or Callidus, I'd gear up the Canoness, and get another BS squad in place of the stormtroopers but then again the Callidus is gold versus Reapers.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 05:04:37 PM by Cleansing Flame »
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Offline Boss Zargore

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Re: My buddy's having a problem
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2009, 04:41:25 PM »
Got to agree with Gornon, footslogging will get you killed against a list like that.

Kitting out an Inq is usually a point sink for little return. I take an Inq for the Psychic Hood, and the assassins. If that. Go Cannoness go!

Offline -Dark Fire-

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Re: My buddy's having a problem
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2009, 05:01:22 PM »
What do you think of my 1000 point list, Bikes, and other posters? Just thought it up off the top of my head. Included the Inquisitor because the guy's buddy seemed to want one.
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Offline Gornon

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Re: My buddy's having a problem
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2009, 05:27:32 PM »
Quote
Elite/
Inquisitor w/Plasma Pistol/Combi-Plasma                 @60
Cheap, allows the Callidus and rides with Plasma Troopers to kill all the 3+ saves and War Walkers around. He doesn't ride with Sisters becasue that would stop them using Faith

Looks good to me.  Maybe try to cram a hood on him?  Sure its LD 8 vs 10 most of the time, but you might get lucky.  Besides, it really pisses Eldar off.  In addition, it stacks with Shield of Faith.
Quote
Callidus
Rips the Dark Reapers a new cavity :D - can move and fight normally on the time she arrives from reserves - anywhere on the field

She will indeed.  And Word In Your Ear can be awesome, too.  Use to move something into LOS or out of cover if you have first turn or to move the Reapers out of LOS to cost them a turn of shooting.

Quote
Troops/
5xStorm Trooper w/2xPlasma, Rhino,                    @125
Plasma Spam for taking down JBs (and Autarch - Instant Death). Scoring Unit

They are good for holding an objective two.  Two plasma shots at BS 4 down range is not bad.
Quote
10xBattle Sister w/2xFlamer, Vet w/Book               @194
                          Rhino, Smoke
Captures Objectives, Flames Harlequins. Smoke prevents them being nailed before arriving. Divine Guidance to rend Jetbikes and Spiders 

A usual combo.  All around awesome.

9xBattle Sister w/2x Flamer, Vet w/Book                @178
                          Rhino,
Quote
Rides with Canoness. Captures Objectives, Flames Harlequins. Smoke prevents them being nailed before arriving. Divine Guidance to rend Jetbikes and Spiders

Illegal.  BSS is minimum 10.

Quote
Heavy Support/
2x Exorcist                                                         @270
Both sit back and murder JBs, try and destroy the Prism first. If the Autarch goes solo, rocket his face ;)

How can you go wrong?


Quote
Got to agree with Gornon, footslogging will get you killed against a list like that.

Not to mention is does not fit my perception of the Battle Sisters.  I perceive them as trained solders under their zealotry.  Marching at the enemy in a huge mob is not good tactics, more so with the Sister mentality.  Burning things = fun.  Ride in transports, burn things faster.

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Bear not my body home,
For all the earth is Roman earth
And I shall die in Rome."
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Offline -Dark Fire-

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Re: My buddy's having a problem
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2009, 05:46:28 PM »
Damn, knew there was something. OK, drop that squad and get psy hood, smoke on storm trooper rhino @+23 and then what? I think a good option would be: 5√óCelestian, 2xMelta, Immo, Smoke, @153. Shame to lose a troops choice but I can't see anyway to keep it without losing the Canoness and her faith. What does everyone think?
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Offline Gornon

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Re: My buddy's having a problem
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2009, 05:59:05 PM »
It's solid if one wants a mixed force.  At 1000pts, I use 1 Exo, 1 Immo, 3 BSS in Rhinos with a Jump Cannie. 

Perhaps upgrade the Canonness a bit more?  Attach her to the Cellys and give her an Evicerator?
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Bear not my body home,
For all the earth is Roman earth
And I shall die in Rome."
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Offline -Dark Fire-

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Re: My buddy's having a problem
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2009, 06:07:55 PM »
Perhaps upgrade the Canonness a bit more?  Attach her to the Cellys and give her an Evicerator?
Yeah she'd be with the Cellys but if the =}{= gets a psy-hood... alas no points for patented 'Flippin' big chainsaw 'o' doom' :(. I think if an assault was initiated it would be down to Faith - at least the Eldar force has little combat threat that won't have been targetted.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 06:13:21 PM by Cleansing Flame »
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Offline Gornon

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Re: My buddy's having a problem
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2009, 07:35:48 PM »
Between the Hood and an Evicerator, I would go with the Evicerator.  Battle Sisters still have Shield of Faith (boy does that ability piss Eldar off.  "You get that for free?!"); an Evicerator can wreck walkers, Striking Scorps, or other hard targets.  Plus it is intimidating.  The Hood is only on a LD 8 Character.  The chance of the Hood working is very low, less then 30%, I would think.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 08:17:00 PM by Gornon »
"Lift not my head from bloody ground,
Bear not my body home,
For all the earth is Roman earth
And I shall die in Rome."
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Offline -Dark Fire-

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Re: My buddy's having a problem
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2009, 07:45:55 PM »
OK, Eviscerator it is - it was you who suggested the hood anyway lol. I'll post a revised list for Bikes' buddy in the morning (it's nearly 1here) and maybe have a stab at 2k.
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Offline -Dark Fire-

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Re: My buddy's having a problem
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2009, 04:14:54 PM »
Here's the modified list for your friend to try versus the Eldar.

Try this List @1000 for size, Cheap Inq. and Canoness, 3 Troops, 2 Exorcists, Callidus

HQ/
Canoness w/Bolt Pistol, Book, Eviscerator                       @71
Would ride with the Celestians, basically there for the faith

Elite/
Inquisitor w/Plasma Pistol/Combi-Plasma                 @60
Cheap, allows the Callidus and rides with Plasma Troopers to kill all the 3+ saves and War Walkers around. He doesn't ride with Sisters becasue that would stop them using Faith

Callidus                                                               @XXX
Rips the Dark Reapers a new cavity :D - can move and fight normally on the time she arrives from reserves - anywhere on the field

5√óCelestian, 2xMelta, Immo, Smoke, @153
Hunts Walkers and Prism

Troops/
5xStorm Trooper w/2xPlasma, Rhino,                    @125
Plasma Spam for taking down JBs (and Autarch - Instant Death). Scoring Unit

10xBattle Sister w/2xFlamer, Vet w/Book               @194
                          Rhino, Smoke
Captures Objectives, Flames Harlequins. Smoke prevents them being nailed before arriving. Divine Guidance to rend Jetbikes and Spiders 

9xBattle Sister w/2x Flamer, Vet w/Book                @178
                          Rhino,
Rides with Canoness. Captures Objectives, Flames Harlequins. Smoke prevents them being nailed before arriving. Divine Guidance to rend Jetbikes and Spiders


Heavy Support/
2x Exorcist                                                         @270
Both sit back and murder JBs, try and destroy the Prism first. If the Autarch goes solo, rocket his face ;)

Comes to 998, 2 Troops, 28 models, 5 vehicles, 4 Faith, 11KP

Right, I'm back and added stuff below each unit.
I know the Canoness and Inquisitor need more gear, but 1000 points is all about bodies on the table IMO. Though about flying Canoness of Death but to include 2 not 1 Exorcist, Inquisitor and Assassin had to go as cheap as possible.

With two troop choices on the table then this list should be alrightcapturing objectives. 5 vehicles will be hard to deal with for everybody, that's a lot of armour saturation at 1k.

4 Faith for a few crucial acts, Divine Guidance to combat the many 3+ saves. Don't worry about the multitude of KPs, they'll be hard to get (not much AT fire around)

If it was me I'd not take an Inquisitor or Callidus, I'd gear up the Canoness, and get another BS squad in place of the stormtroopers.

Very easy to use, has units to combat tanks, terminators, marines and hordes, good all-comers list. 2 Exorcists at 1k is very powerful.

I'll just explain the loss of the 3rd Troop choice, BSS are 10 women minimum, as you probably know, but then the Canoness can't fit in the rhinos, and there were no points for a jump pack - and a decent weapon for her to fly with so I had to change it to Celestians, gives better anti-tank anyway.

Just thought this is a decent list if the guy wants an Inquisitor and Assassins . If not, lose the Inquisitor, Callidus and Stormtrooper (@-305) add BSS squad similar to previous one @+194, give each BS squad a Heavy Flamer @+12,  and then you got 100 points to spend - maybe get an empty Immolator w/Multi-Melta and Smoke @85, or just a flamer one, and chuck in a few combi-flamers on the Vet.Superiors.

Hope that helps. / CF

« Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 04:19:00 PM by Cleansing Flame »
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Offline Boss Zargore

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Re: My buddy's having a problem
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2009, 04:38:27 PM »
Solid list and advice all around. Try those out, you'll be doing fine.

Just curious, what did your friends list look like before?

Offline BikesRFun

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Re: My buddy's having a problem
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2009, 04:40:52 AM »
Thanks a ton Cleansing flame and everybody- I'll send him the list.

As for a picture of his army, it's pretty sad. He played one battle versus my the eldar player (@ 750 pts) where he took two squads of sisters, his Inquisitor with a full-on retinue, and a squad of ten seraphim. I definitely told him to rework the seraphim squad down to 5 (if he absolutely needed them) and his Inquisitor totally out of the picture. As you can tell, he did the opposite of that.

Offline -Dark Fire-

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Re: My buddy's having a problem
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2009, 05:14:33 AM »
And that was footslogging, right? 10 Seraphim, knowing the guys hook on upgrading would be about 290 ish if the Superior had an Eviscerator. And a kitted out =}{= Lord with retinue is not, lets say, the best choice. I'm glad I could help with the list but later today check this Forum because I'll be posting my 1k list (no I.Lord, assassin or troopers, but another BSS, 6 vehicles, 5 Faith, less KPs... It won't make any friends but hey.
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