Topic: GK Big Toys List 2k

[Prophecy]

I have been watching a lot of GK players and observing their lists involving stormravens. There seems to be a theme with those who use them. Many people with a bunch of purifiers or paladins seem to like using them. I personally find both ideas to be rough. The two big systems I have seen are as a delivery system for purifiers is risky and paladins consume so many points the raven is one of the few things left on the board in the end.

I have always like using Coteaz as my main HQ as he seems to just work for me. But I personally don't own Stormravens as they are point heavy and expensive to buy. My best trading friend said I could buy a few off of him if I wanted but I wanted to make a list that wasn't the standard for using them...aka a balanced list. I have attempted to squeeze the points to work for me even though the list is rigged to use a bunch of toys to my advantage. Now I know some of you are very experienced with flyers while I am not so I wanted to know if this list was worth perusing. I have one alternate version where I drop the techmarine but I will explain that later. Please advise me about loadouts and possibilities are best as I have a plan but its one thing to think but another to have experience.

Coteaz: XX0 pts
-Retinue: 2 Jokaero, 3 Multi-melta Servitors, 7 Stormbolter Acolytes: 139 pts

Henchmen Squad: 6 w/ Bolters, 3 w/ Plasma Guns and 1 Psyker: 85 pts
-Chimera: w/ Multilaser & Heavy Flamer: 55 pts

Henchmen Squad: 6 w/ Bolters, 3 w/ Plasma Guns and 1 Psyker: 85 pts
-Chimera: w/ Multilaser & Heavy Flamer: 55 pts

Warrior Acolytes: 5 w/ Bolters: 25 pts (Go in Stormraven)
Warrior Acolytes: 5 w/ Bolters: 25 pts (Go in Stormraven)

Strike Squad: 10 w/ 2 Psycannons and Psybolt Ammo: 240 pts

Purifiers: 10 w/ 4 Incinerators, 2 Daemon hammers, and 4 Halberds: 260 pts (Go In Crusader)

Techmarine: w/ Rad Grenades, Psychotroke Grenades, and 2 Servo Skulls: 121 pts (Go In Crusader)

Stormraven: w/ Lascannon & Typhoon missile Launcher: 230 pts
Stormraven: w/ Lascannon & Typhoon missile Launcher: 230 pts

Landraider Crusader: Multi-melta & Psybolt Ammo: 270 pts

Aegis Defense Line: w/ Icarus Lascannon 85 pts

Total: 1999 pts

Now the only major problem I see with this list is the techmarine. I really want to like him but he seems very point heavy for a one wound kinda guy. Now I want the Crusader to make it across the field but perhaps all those hull points is enough without Mr. Fixit. Just in case it is I wrote an alternate version of the list where I drop him and add an Inquisitor to the Purifier unit and 3 plasma guns to the Coteaz retinue. Which do you feel is stronger?

Xenos Inquisitor: Psyker, Rad Grenades, Psychotroke Grenades, 2 Servo Skulls, & Power armour: 99 pts
3 Plasma Guns that replace the guns of 3 Acolytes.

Thoughts very welcome because if I get positive feedback I will buy those Ravens and complete the list!
 

[Greg23]

Nice list. I don't know about the techmarine getting two more grenades.  That makes it 5 different grenade types he's carrying, and he can only use one at a time, 4 of them on the turn he assaults.

Chimeras will be fodder for first blood points.

[Prophecy]

If you have a fearless opponent you use the Rad otherwise the psychotroke is used.

Really easy way to keep the chimeras alive is to get 2 chances at stealing initiative OR just turn the raider to the side as its the same protection no matter the side and just put the chimeras behind it.

[~Iron Captain Softy~]

...

First point I want to address. A majority of the players out there have no real idea how to play their armies, much less 40k. That's all watching random GK players will get you. Of course most people will use SRs to transport 300+ point units that have no defense against C&B; their brains can not process that there are vastly better options to put in the raven.

Second is that you are knee jerking and doing the complete opposite. You're getting warmer in that you're using henchmen instead of GKs in storm ravens. However, you're using a unit that does absolutely nothing in them for no apparent reason other then to spite the group think.

Instead of running the fail raider (100 games into 6th and I still haven't seen a raider survive past T3, let alone affect the battle in any meaningful way), use those points to upgrade the henchmen to the DCA/Sader ball, then get more actual firepower.

With the points you spend from dropping the LR, you can get a Librarian with MoT, Quicksilver, Warp Rift, Shrouding, and whatever weapon you want. Get a group of 10 Acolytes with no upgrades. Put this ball in a storm raven. All of a sudden, you have Storm Ravens capable of 3+ cover saves in transit, a unit inside packing 30 attacks at S5 2d6 Pen (or S4 I10), and very little invested in the unit.

Alternately, you can also have the standard DCA/Sader ball with Sword/Axe or Maul/Axe (depending on how lucky you feel with S4) accompanied by the funny grenade techmarines/inquisitors and whatnot. These units are vastly cheaper, have a great defense against C&B (3++ will ward off about 12 hits from the C&B), and can obliterate just about any unit up to 3x their worth in points.

If you have no allies and only an IC lascannon as your anti-air, it's simply not an option to not bring SRs anymore. Vendettas are vastly superior to SRs in air superiority, but Stormravens can hold their own, and the additional benefits of the mobile super death balls are too great to ignore IMO.

[Prophecy]

Wow you need to settle down and think a little more...

Raiders have never been more survivable than now and with so much armor on the table decisions will have to be made.

The squads inside the raider are there to take points...I thought that was obvious

You are counting on no psyker defense which just doesn't happen all that often.

If you think this such a good idea please show some points other than rambling....I would like to see how your ideas fit into the already established list.

I'm not saying this ideas are bad just that you are not spreading the points wisely and or showing me a list with alterations.

[Greg23]

I recently played Grey Knights with servo skulls.  The skulls are amazing if you go for a deepstrike heavy attack.

I just believe you need some resilient scoring units if you're playing objective based missions.  Though expensive, GK Terminators fit this bill very well.

Also, are you playing pick up games where there would be lots of terrain or tourny style games where terrain is at a premium?

[Prophecy]

Yeah just pick up games to be honest.

Tournament styles have been changing radically to just outrageous builds involving insane flyer amounts and allies of every variety. It seems to be coming down to how much money can someone throw out to get the absolute best stuff OR Who can create the best synergy between 2 books. If you need more than 1 book to win at a tournament then you are a sad panda.

I know this is becoming the norm so I try and stay away from anything like that or double force org. That is why almost all my lists are 1999 to just make sure I don't have to put up with 6 vindicators or something that takes the fun out of the game.

But I do have 6 scoring units so I have a feeling some will survive the majority of the game. I just don't seem termies making it into the list without some really big changes.

[Greg23]

Cool input.  Yes, you have 6 scoring units, but 4 of them are pretty squishy/glass jaw.  Especially the 5 man squad of acolytes with bolters.

With friendly pick-up games, you can get more terrain.  If playing objectives, the techmarine can bolster one friendly piece of terrain per game, great for turtling on objectives.

I'd say downgrade the Purifiers to Pugatory squads, drop the bolters on the two 5-man acolyte squads, and boost the numbers in those squads as much as possible, running those acolytes as naked as possible.

Squeeze out as many points as possible to make those 5 man acolyte squads bigger.  This will help you with objective based missions and the amount of terrain in a regular pick up game will help protect them, especially LOS blocking terrain.

[~Iron Captain Softy~]

Wow you need to settle down and think a little more...

Raiders have never been more survivable than now and with so much armor on the table decisions will have to be made.

The squads inside the raider are there to take points...I thought that was obvious

You are counting on no psyker defense which just doesn't happen all that often.

If you think this such a good idea please show some points other than rambling....I would like to see how your ideas fit into the already established list.

I'm not saying this ideas are bad just that you are not spreading the points wisely and or showing me a list with alterations.

I provide arguments that can either be proven or debunked. The way I see it, you're the one rambling, as I see no rebuttals to my claims. If I may say, I suggest you attack the argument, not the individual making those arguments, if you wish to be taken seriously in a discussion/debate.

LRs are a huge gamble. You spend an arm and a leg, and hope that the vehicle isn't destroyed before it can make up even half it's points. Perhaps the occasion might come up where the LR is basically uncontested because the OPFOR decided to not prepare against AV14. In such occasions, LRs are great. In any other situation, LRs face a huge problem because solutions to the problems LRs present are much cheaper and sometimes more maneuverable, leading to a disadvantageous situation for you. I wouldn't be this harsh against LRs if my experience did not also concur that this is the case.

The 25 point expenditures serve no real purpose to your army as a whole other then perhaps last turn objective claiming shenanigans. If they had 3 meltaguns or 3 plasma guns, I might understand why they are there, but they merely have bolters. I don't understand the rationale that they are there to "take points" either. Take points for what purpose? Are you really at such a surplus of points that you can throw them away on a useless unit? I find that hard to believe, as we are talking about GKs here.

The only armies now capable of psychic defense are Space Wolves and Eldar. Yes, in those match-ups, the utility of the psykers will be limited. I don't think that the risk of this should stop you from bringing those units anyway though, as the benefits possible are too great to ignore in any other match-up.

Additionally, since when was it my job to write your list for you? Sure, I provide a case for how I would redistribute your resources, but it's ultimately up to you to make the final change.

[Prophecy]

Ok well it appears you aren't much of a teacher but I understand it takes a little extra effort. SO what I am seeing is I need tougher troops and either sinking a ton of points into the flyers OR taking more raiders.

The one idea you gave that I really like is  get a Librarian with MoT, Quicksilver, Warp Rift, Shrouding, and whatever weapon you want. Get a group of 10 Acolytes with no upgrades. Now this seems like money in the crusader for cheap only max out the acolytes. Then get 2 more raiders of the standard lascannon variety and either fill them with standard GK's or more crazy Inquisitorial stuff.