Topic: An experiment: 1500 Sisters of Battle + Grey Knights, no special characters!

[Scyrex Deledras]

Hey everyone,

Over the next 10 weeks or so, I will be participating in a Planetary Empires campaign being run at my local store. The kicker, though, is that there are two unique special rules involved in this campaign:

1. NO special characters are allowed (though the guy running it may make exceptions for armies which revolve around special characters, ie Draigowing, Sanguinary Guard, etc)
2. Each army has a Supreme Warlord, for whom you select a single Warlord Trait throughout the campaign instead of rolling randomly on the chart.

The campaign link can be found here:

http://shiftedmatrix.com/campaign/40kcampaignrules.pdf

I've decided to use my Sisters of Battle for this campaign. Now, before you say anything, I realize that this sets me at a disadvantage- firstly, because the Sisters' special characters (Celestine and Jacobus, especially) bring a lot to the army and are arguably their main competetive edge; and secondly, because I realize how lacklustre the Sisters' basic HQs are in comparison. I had a test game the other day with a Canoness + Celestians, and that game more or less confirms that she dies too easily and can't do enough damage or affect the battle enough.

Which is why, at the suggestion of friends, I am throwing an allied Grey Knight force into the mix. Here's the list I've come up with so far:


SISTERS OF BATTLE:

Canoness- eviscerator, rosarius- 115
18 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer- 246
10 Battle Sisters- 2 meltaguns- 145
-Rhino- 35
Ecclesiarchy Preacher- eviscerator- 70
Exorcist- 135
Exorcist- 135

ALLIED GREY KNIGHTS:


Ordo Malleus Inquisitor- psyker, 3 servo skulls- 64
-6 Henchmen- 3 Warrior Acolytes, 3 Servitors w. plasma cannons- 72
6 Grey Knight Terminators- psycannon, nemesis daemonhammer, Justicar w. halberd- 265

1282



The overall plan is that the Canoness and the Preacher join the big blob of 18 Sisters. I'm figuring that Stubborn + possible Preferred Enemy from the Canoness onto the squad will bolster them significantly, and they should be able to throw out quite a bit of dakka. If they get charged, then again, Preferred Enemy + 2 eviscerators should help, or they could be the ones doing the charging, in which case they will be unleashing a lot of rerollable attacks. The Rhino-mounted Sisters are there to go after enemy tanks and/or seize objectives, and the Exorcists, of course, are there for fire support. Note that I realize how vulnerable a target a blob of Sisters can be to blasts, but thankfully, there are no IG players involved in the campaign (as far as I know).

On the Grey Knight side of things, the Inquisitor and her retinue will be there to plasma things to death and disrupt deep strikers with their servo skulls. The Terminators will either act as a deep striking surprise, or they will advance on foot, provide additional fire support, and be the hammer to the stubborn Sisters' anvil if they get charged.

So, my two questions are (1) what do you think of the list so far, and (2), what should I add next? The choices I'm going over are:

-A Chimera for the Inquisitor warband (55), and/or replacing the three Warrior Henchmen with Psykers (72 I think, I don't have the Grey Knight book with me at the moment)
-5 Dominions with 2 meltaguns, riding in an Immolator w. twin-linked multi-melta (175)
-6 Seraphim w. 2 hand flamers (135)
-Another Exorcist (135)
-An Aegis Defence line w. quad gun for the Henchmen to get behind (100)

Any thoughts? Also, I need to pick a Warlord trait for my Canoness, and I'm torn between either Tenacity (to give herself and her squad Feel No Pain if they get near an objective), or Immoveable Object (in case I want to run her with Celestians instead at some point).

Criticism and feedback, as always, are very welcome.

[Scyrex Deledras]

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I apologize for bumping this thread, but I need to come up with a list-- and more importantly, think of a permanent Warlord trait-- by this Saturday.

For my Canoness' permanent Warlord trait, I'm torn between the following:

-Tenacity (so that any unit she leads gains potential Feel No Pain, which could be useful when leading a large unit of Sisters)
-Inspiring Presence (not an immediate choice, given how my whole army is LD 8/9, but potentially useful)
-Target Priority (Which can be very useful due to its area effect)
-Divide to Conquer (In case I run into any armies with heavy reserves, ie Daemons)
-Dust of a Thousand Worlds (Unless Move Through Cover does not affect vehicles)

Any thoughts?

[Guildmage Aech]

I'd go for feel no pain, also see if you can afford a combiflamer for her, it's great for overwatch.
Remember her preferred enemy is assault phase only, sadly, otherwise it would be awesome.

And if you had to pick a unit off the list id go with the dominons, they're a great unit. Also combi-melta for the sarge?

Sisters can work fine on their own at 1500, admittedly I'm using celestine but she isn't the be all and end all. Having GK allies just for termies and a bit of fire support is all you need. When buying more allies ask if they do something that sisters can't be doing already?

[LoH]

Honestly, I'm less "wahoo" about Tenacity for a S3 Warlord -- it will only really help against the firepower you already get a decent save against. There is a lot of S6+ in the game.

I second the melta-frenzy Dominion squad, especially outflanking in an Immolator.

[Scyrex Deledras]

Sisters can work fine on their own at 1500, admittedly I'm using celestine but she isn't the be all and end all. Having GK allies just for termies and a bit of fire support is all you need. When buying more allies ask if they do something that sisters can't be doing already?

True. The Grey Knights provide close combat ability, 2+ armour saves, and some very nice specialists. I think the bare minimum of Grey Knights can complement Sisters quite well. What I am wondering, though, is where the best place to put a Canoness is. Given that she needs to go somewhere, and isn't nearly as resilient as Celestine, I'm torn between
-Sticking her in the middle of a big mob of Sisters to make them Stubborn
-Sticking them with Celestians so that they can combine faith powers and become semi-decent in CC
-Giving her a combi-weapon and joining Dominions
-Putting her far at the back of the battlefield with Retributors, possibly manning (womaning?) a quad gun.

Honestly, I'm less "wahoo" about Tenacity for a S3 Warlord -- it will only really help against the firepower you already get a decent save against. There is a lot of S6+ in the game.

I second the melta-frenzy Dominion squad, especially outflanking in an Immolator.

Okay, then what warlord trait would you suggest as an alternative?

Also, what do you guys think of this amended list?

Canoness- eviscerator, rosarius- 115
18 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer- 246
10 Battle Sisters- 2 meltaguns- 145
-Rhino- 35
Ecclesiarchy Preacher- eviscerator- 70
Exorcist- 135
Exorcist- 135
GREY KNIGHT ALLIES:
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor- 3 servo skulls- 34
-9 Henchmen- 8 Psyers, 1 Servitor w. plasma cannons- 140
-Rhino- 35
6 Grey Knight Terminators- psycannon, nemesis daemonhammer, Justicar w. halberd- 265
Vindicare Assassin- 145

1500


A friend suggested I include the Vindicare, and go for Psykers to add a nice big S10 template to the mix. I must admit, I like the Vindicare, but I can easily trade it and the extra Terminator for the Dominions if need be.

[Guildmage Aech]

Definatley best in the big unit, otherwise they get charged, lose combat and you take the unit off the table. Yes, stubborn is useful for them!

Incidentally, give the sarge a poweraxe, or powermaul.

Can you squeeze for a few extra points to turn the preacher into a confessor? Extra wounds and attacks make the eviscorator much more worthwhile.

On the allies,
I really don't rate psykers that much, if you're that keen on a strength 10 blast the ally something with a demolisher cannon attached to it! They don't have a headache and die when a farseer turns up. :/
I like a small unit with 3 plasmaguns. Their job is to shoot at dangerous things, and normally die.

You know you can almost buy a whole unit of battle sisters for the price of a vindicare. A unit in a rhino almost.

How about a stormraven? It's a great anti-air weapon! You can even put henchmen in it.

[Scyrex Deledras]

Definatley best in the big unit, otherwise they get charged, lose combat and you take the unit off the table. Yes, stubborn is useful for them!

Incidentally, give the sarge a poweraxe, or powermaul.

Can you squeeze for a few extra points to turn the preacher into a confessor? Extra wounds and attacks make the eviscorator much more worthwhile.

On the allies,
I really don't rate psykers that much, if you're that keen on a strength 10 blast the ally something with a demolisher cannon attached to it! They don't have a headache and die when a farseer turns up. :/
I like a small unit with 3 plasmaguns. Their job is to shoot at dangerous things, and normally die.

You know you can almost buy a whole unit of battle sisters for the price of a vindicare. A unit in a rhino almost.

How about a stormraven? It's a great anti-air weapon! You can even put henchmen in it.

Well, unfortunately, I'm limited by what models I own, and sadly I don't have anything with a demolisher cannon OR that can fly (unless they let me proxy a Razorwing as a Stormraven, which is unlikely).

I see what you mean about the Vindicare. I'll test it out in the first stages of the campaign, and maybe trade it later for more Battle Sisters. As for the big mob of Battle Sisters...even with 2 hidden eviscerators in the unit and potential (mind you, ONLY potential) FNP in the unit, they won't be winning any fights against dedicated CC units. Hence why I have the Termies as backup.

I am considering, however, an alternate version of this list with a Termie Inquisitor, 2 Rhino-mounted Sister squads, Rets (w. quad gun) or Dominions to put the Canoness with, and the usual 2 Exorcists and potential Vindicare. But I want to test out the Inq. retinue first.

P.S. In this edition, with reserves starting on a 3+, does anyone think -1 reserve modifiers (ie Divide to Conquer) are still useful?

[Scyrex Deledras]

Right, first off, I apologize if it is a bit late to add to this thread. Mods, if I'm out of bounds here, I'm sorry.

As of my third week into the campaign, I've been suffering three losses in a row. After going over what went wrong, I've done some revision and worked out two possible lists to take in future.


LIST 1- SISTERS AND KNIGHTS

Canoness- eviscerator, rosarius- 115
10 Battle Sisters- meltagun, heavy flamer, Veteran Sister w. combi-flamer- 165
-Rhino- 35
10 Battle Sisters- meltagun, heavy flamer, Veteran Sister w. combi-flamer- 165
-Rhino- 35
9 Celestians- 2 flamers, Sister Superior w. combi-flamer & power maul- 167
-Rhino- 35
Exorcist- 135
Exorcist- 135
GREY KNIGHT ALLIES:
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor- power armour, 3 servo-skullls- 47
-12 Henchmen- 3 Warrior Acolytes, 6 Psykers, 3 Inquisition servitors w. plasma cannons- 128
5 Grey Knight Terminators- psycannon, nemesis daemonhammer, Justicar w. halberd- 225
FORTIFICATIONS:
Aegis Defence Line- quad gun- 100

Total: 1485

The basic idea is for the Inquisitor and her Retinue to sit behind the quad gun and shoot stuff dead, with the Exorcists also providing fire support. The Battle Sisters and Celestians will move up to grab objectives or gang up on enemy troops where necessary, and the Grey Knights will either advance behind as a counter-attack unit or act as a Deep-Striking surprise.



LIST 2- PURE SISTERS

Canoness- eviscerator, rosarius- 115
10 Battle Sisters- meltagun, heavy flamer, Veteran Sister w. combi-flamer- 165
-Rhino- 35
10 Battle Sisters- meltagun, heavy flamer, Veteran Sister w. combi-flamer- 165
-Rhino- 35
9 Celestians- 2 flamers, Sister Superior w. combi-flamer & power maul- 167
-Rhino- 35
5 Dominions- 2 meltaguns, Sister Superior w. combi-melta- 100
-Immolator- twin-linked multi-melta- 80
7 Retributors- 4 heavy bolters, simulacrum- 129
-Immolator- twin-linked multi-melta- 80
Exorcist- 135
Exorcist- 135
Aegis Defence Line- quad gun- 100

1476


This list is more mechanized, and has way more in the way of anti-vehicular firepower, but also has one less scoring unit and way less armour-piercing ability. (I can, however, ditch the Retributors' Immolator and trim off enough stuff to make room for 10 Battle Sisters with a flamer and heavy flamer, plus their Rhino).

So, which do you personally think might be the better option? Thus far, I have faced mechanized Chaos, infantry-heavy Chaos, and Devastator-heavy Blood Angels. Note that I can keep either list on hand depending on who I face, but all the same, I value your opinions and your constructive criticism.

[Guildmage Aech]

Sorry to hear of your misfortunes!

Both lists here seem pretty good, the basic formula for mechanised sisters works reasonably well. There are perhaps a few things I would blend from both lists.

I like Celestians, but I would take dominons first. In fact I would probably only take Celestians once I run out of Fast Attack slots. When not look at a swap? The cannoness can still join them, she can cause trouble in the enemy backfield... against non-combat specialist units she can probably get her money's worth.

You might then be able to squeeze points for another unit, lose the inquisitors power armour, turn heavy flamers into much cheaper normal flamers (While I love the power of heavy flamers I find the extra cost to be too much) and maybe even turn combat cannoness into a cheap one with just a combiflamer you might be able to afford the retributors (without simulacrum), or seraphim or another unit of dominons perhaps?

You need to look at the horde element somewhat, I find that being poor in combat means if you spend points on it you now have stuff that is expensive and still pretty poor in combat. Better off buying more stuff to shoot with... it's what the sisters are good at!

[Scyrex Deledras]

Sorry to hear of your misfortunes!

Both lists here seem pretty good, the basic formula for mechanised sisters works reasonably well. There are perhaps a few things I would blend from both lists.

I like Celestians, but I would take dominons first. In fact I would probably only take Celestians once I run out of Fast Attack slots. When not look at a swap? The cannoness can still join them, she can cause trouble in the enemy backfield... against non-combat specialist units she can probably get her money's worth.

  Can the Dominions still Scout/outflank with the Canoness attached? If I did that, then I'd probably outflank, as I'd rather not make it easy for the enemy to get a Warlord kill off of me.

You might then be able to squeeze points for another unit, lose the inquisitors power armour, turn heavy flamers into much cheaper normal flamers (While I love the power of heavy flamers I find the extra cost to be too much) and maybe even turn combat cannoness into a cheap one with just a combiflamer you might be able to afford the retributors (without simulacrum), or seraphim or another unit of dominons perhaps?

That's actually a VERY good idea! I'll miss the heavy flamers, but I suppose finding the points for an extra Battle Squad or Dominions (depending on the list) is worth it.

As an aside, though, do you think Seraphim are still worthwhile without Celestine around to boost them?

You need to look at the horde element somewhat, I find that being poor in combat means if you spend points on it you now have stuff that is expensive and still pretty poor in combat. Better off buying more stuff to shoot with... it's what the sisters are good at!

Yeah, I'm finding out the hard way that basic Battle Sisters have a LOT of limitations (especially compared to the previous Codex), so having specialists that I can rely on is a must. Which means having more points available to buy said specialists is also a must.

Thanks. As per your advice, here's a slightly revised list #1 (List #2 would be the same, it would just trade the Celestians for more Battle Sisters):


LIST 1- SISTERS AND KNIGHTS

Canoness- combi-flamer- 75
10 Battle Sisters- meltagun, flamer, Veteran Sister w. combi-flamer- 150
-Rhino- 35
10 Battle Sisters- meltagun, flamer, Veteran Sister w. combi-flamer- 150
-Rhino- 35
5 Dominions- 2 meltaguns- 90
-Immolator- twin-linked multi-melta- 80
6 Retributors- 4 heavy bolters- 97
Exorcist- 135
Exorcist- 135
GREY KNIGHT ALLIES:
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor- power armour, 3 servo-skullls- 47
-12 Henchmen- 3 Warrior Acolytes, 6 Psykers, 3 Inquisition servitors w. plasma cannons- 128
5 Grey Knight Terminators- psycannon, nemesis daemonhammer, Justicar w. halberd- 225
FORTIFICATIONS:
Aegis Defence Line- quad gun- 100

Total: 1478

Which gives me enough points left over for a combi-weapon on the Dominions and an extra Retributor, or a simulacrum.

Thanks!

[Guildmage Aech]

Page 41 is the rule for scout, the wording is changed from previous versions!

Why not make the inquisitor the warlord? The rules don't specify which HQ character gets picked....

I like small units of seraphim, taking 5 with two flamer girls (and maybe a meltabomb for the sarge) works great. They can hop around setting fire to stuff being annoying, and occasionally assault the odd vehicle. Cheap and very annoying for your opponent to deal with. You can even deep strike them if you fancy!