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Author Topic: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.  (Read 5281 times)

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Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Some of you might remember me, some of you won't. Been off the forum for a hell of a long time and out of 40k for almost 8 months now due to disinterest and work pushing it to the side. But 6th ed's been enough of an incentive to get me back into the game.

I've taken note of the FAQs, various hits and boons the Knights have taken in the edition shift. What I need help with should be obvious from the thread title. I've been away awhile, so I need the more experience community's help with identifying the massive woopsies a (essentially brand-new) player can make when creating a Grey Knight list.

One burning question I have is are PAGKs even worth it any more now Terminators are the walking fortresses they ought to be?

Well, here are my questions. Commence...

Offline spiny echidna

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2012, 10:16:04 PM »
I still think PAGK are the best value in any marine dex.

Here is my thinking, for about the same price as a C:SM Tac squad you get:
Psychic powers, storm bolters, and power weapons.

The difference between GK terms and C:SM terms is Scoring, which is huge, BUT...

If you are trying to create a shooting heavy list, I think PAGK are still the most bolter bang for the buck.  I love a 10 man squad with 2 Psycannons combat squaded with the psycannons shooting our of a rhino.  Also great just standing there...

They don't have the survivability of terms and I don't run them exclusively, but I think a shooting heavy list is more points effective if you rely on PAGK as your main gunline and terms as your hard assaulty units, in the now extra awesome stormravens :)

just my $0.02
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Offline Locarno

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2012, 12:06:43 PM »
Agreed. Don't obsess over AP3 power weapons  - the thing that kills most terminators are either area effect AP2 ranged weapons (plasma cannon, demolisher cannon, etc) or a crud-load of small arms fire. Niether has reduced in effectiveness in the slightest.

Strike Squads, as noted, pack twice as many storm bolters into the same number of points, and have the same effective durability (because terminators may be twice as tough but there's half as many of them). As a result, they're a much better choice for fire support, even ignoring their access to the razorback, which isn't a bad little tank at all...

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Offline Prophecy

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2012, 03:50:11 PM »
I think the Strike squad has grown in this edition already but my love of Purifiers is really strong. I just can't make a list without at least 1 squad. On average they cost about 65 pts more but you just get double the special weapons and attacks. I can't say no to that much good stuff.

Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2012, 04:18:43 PM »
Yeah, I've stuck a squad of Purifiers in my 1k list (busy assembling them now actually) as horde deterrent, inside a Razorback as said above. Still mulling over heavy support choices, I half want Dreadknights but the idea of them irks me.

Offline MortVader83

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2012, 05:47:50 PM »
 PAGK are definately a great choice. I even run a unit in my Draigowing lists because of how handy Warpquake and acess to a RB is. Only no-no i see with them is weapons upgrades. Generaly buying the psilencer, halberds, or falchions is a waste of points. As for that matter, i have never found a good reason to take models with Falchions besides they look cool, so every once in a while i will pony up the points for them. As far as the Razorbacks go, the only mistake you can make there would be neglecting to get psibolt ammo for the HB/ACs. My favorite is the HBs at the moment. They are cheap, reliable vs infantry, some transports, and those pesky bikes/LSs/Venoms. True, they lack the punch of the LC or Assault cannon variants, or double threat of LC/PG.  But their cost and decent range make up for it.
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Offline Prophecy

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2012, 05:51:21 PM »
Yeah the Elite slot for GK's is really strong. It is a lot like playing Nids where you really have to choose what you want. That is why people just spam elite units as an army and choose a cool character. I have a hard time staying away from this idea personally but I do like to mix. For me a solid Elite slot in 2k is 2 squads of purifiers and a vindicare.

If you find yourself leaning towards this idea be sure to take a 2nd HQ and choose an Inquisitor. In every list I make I always add something I want to see and base it around an inquisitor. It is just refreshing to take something outside the build that can add in a positive way. Even if it is a Coteaz list I still take another inquisitor to help round out the list.

Offline ~Iron Captain Softy~

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2012, 03:36:38 AM »
I'm really warming up to the new psychic powers GKs have access to, especially with a LVL 3 Librarian. Divination opens up access to some Eldar-esque powers, which I think are some of the best powers in the game.

I think dreads never have been a very good option in any dex. At this point, I'm inclined to think that not even the Grey Knights can save dreads as either a weapon platform or a close combat performer. Just about any other unit can outperform dreads in basically all fields. If there is any fast rule that I've adhered to when playing GKs, it'll have to be to exclude any dreads.

I think including a Dreadknight is never a bad idea in 6th. The rule changes really increased the performance characteristics of the DK, and he's been my star performer in every game yet. He now comes standard with S10 (that is also a force weapon... handy when fighting other MCs) AP2, can snipe out powerfists and characters in close combat now that he's a character and can issue challenges, and is now mostly invulnerable to power weapons that strike at initiative (rending is still a threat though, so watch out for that).

Other then that, I think it's still open season while the new rule set is sinking in.
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Offline WisdomLS

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2012, 08:07:13 AM »
All good advice so far, one thing I'd point out about the GK dex and perhaps the best thing about it, is that there are so few bad choices :)
Very nearly all the choices are actually good, sure some are technically a little better than others from a certain point of view but in general what ever mix of units you take to the field will be pretty competitive.
This is a good excuse to field lots of the units that you like the look of or have always been impressed by the fluff surrounding them.
A couple of exeption to the above are Psilencers and Daemonhosts which should be avoided if at all possible  ;)

Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2012, 04:58:01 PM »
To be honest I don't mind them that much when they're on PAGKs. I like the look of them and it's a decent enough set of shots (kind of). But I have been sticking Psycannons everywhere constantly since I bought my army.

I'm very happy I picked them up, I get so many fun ideas looking through the Codex. Feels like I'm way back in 2006 when I started gain.

Offline MortVader83

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2012, 05:59:17 PM »
 I like the look of the Psilencer, but the stats are lacking. So what i do is run them as master crafted Psycannons on Paladins. Just make sure to point it out to your opponents if you do this however.
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Offline Locarno

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2012, 02:05:05 PM »
The gatling variant is not half bad though.
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Offline Prophecy

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2012, 05:07:24 PM »
I don't think so on this one. I would go with heavy incinerator every time. I will take a monstrous creature with a fancy hellhound flamer any day.

Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2012, 05:43:31 PM »
Meh, the Heavy Incinerator does not tickle me at all for the points. It even looks daft (I'm fairly certain they stole the design from the Rammstein fondu maker...).

I'm about ready to rock 1k with them now incidentally. It's an insanely compact army compared to my old ways, but it looks fancy. Only thing I'm stuck on is an HQ choice. Can't decide between Grand Master or Librarian. The Master would just have a Halberd, the Libby would have Might, Rift and Sanctuary. Any thoughts on these?

Offline NecronCell2131

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2012, 09:53:52 PM »
 Libby would get more use, having a beatstick character wont help against some of the more horrendous special characters but having a librarian that can give your guys cover or move units will have way more impact on the game.

 An idea would be to switch for Divination to get the rerolls as the standard power. Works well with making sure you do the most damage with your small units.

 I am glad your not going straight to coteaz or draigo its a nice change from most lists i see floating around!
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Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2012, 10:17:53 PM »
Honestly, Draigo bores me painfully and Coteaz isn't a Knight. Only SC I'd go for is Mordrak. He's interesting as characters get, and I've got some ideas on how I'd make him.

Offline Weehee

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2012, 10:47:38 PM »
I used to play Grey Knights and I loved me my PAGKs.  My only problem was that I could never decide if the FAGKs were worth it.  Some games they were awesome and other games they were not so good.  Any thoughts on that?

Offline MortVader83

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2012, 12:27:32 AM »
Meh, the Heavy Incinerator does not tickle me at all for the points. It even looks daft (I'm fairly certain they stole the design from the Rammstein fondu maker...).
Actually i think they just modified the old hand-held Incinerator design a tad. But it does bear a resemblance...


 As for your HQ the Librarian is a better choice at 1k pts. His utility is great with even the
stock codex powers. The GM is better in 1500+ pts games where you will have more units to apply Grand Strategy to. A special character that gets overlooked is Thawn. He basically has reanimation protocol and ML2. Add in that he is also scoring and the deal is done.
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Offline ~Iron Captain Softy~

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2012, 04:05:41 AM »
My favorite weapon for the Dreadknight by far would be the Heavy Incinerator. Every other unit in my force is equipped to engage enemy forces at medium range, so I'm in dire need of a weapon that is able to light up medium infantry that rely on cover for protection. My Heavy Incinerator has racked up numerous kills of pathfinders, infantry heavy weapon teams, scouts, gaunts, and other 4+ or worse armored troops.

If that isn't a niche you need filled, then that's ok, the Heavy Psycannon is another good option. I'm just saying that the Heavy Incinerator fulfills a niche that is not as easily acquired elsewhere in C:GK.
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Offline Locarno

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Re: Coming back to 40k with the Grey Knights - Advice on major no-no's.
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2012, 10:48:15 AM »
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He basically has reanimation protocol and ML2.
Better. Even if you fail the first time, you keep rolling until the bugger gets up!
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