Topic: 1000 pts of Harlequins...need a little advice

[Kammerice]

Okay guys and gals, here's the deal...

I've been hanging around these forums (in their many shapes) for a few years, mainly just lurking in the background not saying much.  It was whilst I was looking at the EO's own Harlequin list that I felt the old stirrings return.

I've played Ulthwe since near the middle of the 2nd Edition, but always had a thing for the Harlequins.  Anyway, I downloaded the rules (the CJ ones) and came up with an army list - I doubt I could convince my regular opponents to play anything that isn't from GW, so thats why I stuck to the CJ rules instead of the very nice EO ones.  Anyway, my main opponents are Eldar (Vanilla and Biel-Tan), Dark Eldar and Marines in all shapes and sizes.  Might as well toss in a couple of 'Nid armies and a Daemonhunters one whilst you're there.

The List (finally... )

Great Harlequin - Riveblades, Harlequin's Kiss, D-Field, Haywire Grenades
113 pts

Death Jester - Bright Lance
57 pts

Death Jester - Bright Lance
57 pts

Death Jester - Shuriken Cannon
52 pts

Death Jester - Shrieker Cannon
47pts

6 Harlequins - 2 Kisses, 2 Plasma Pistols
170 pts

6 Harlequins - 2 Kisses, 2 Plasma Pistols
170 pts

6 Harlequins - 2 Power Weapons, 1 Plasma Pistol
167 pts

6 Harlequins - 2 Power Weapons, 1 Plasma Pistol
167 pts

Primarily I've gone for strength in numbers (silly, I know due to the fact that the army are Harlequins...). The idea would be that the 4 squads and the GH would FoF up the board with the BL and Shuriken Cannon DJs laying down fire on enemy vehicles.  The other DJ is there for Troop killing. 

As the I want the GH to be in combat most of the time, I decided against giving him a pistol of any variety; he's got the Haywire grenades just in case he gets close to a vehicle and there is no infantry about.  The Plasma Pistols on the squads are essentially the same idea as the Haywire Grenades (killing vehicles when there is no infantry near) but its a cheaper option than equipping the Harlequins with Haywire Grenades.

Thoughts?

Kamm

[InfinityCircuit]

Welcome!  I hope you enjoy your stay!  My comments are in bold.

Great Harlequin - Riveblades, Harlequin's Kiss, D-Field, Haywire Grenades
113 pts

I much prefer the Harlequin's Kiss/Powerblades combo to the Riveblades.  It gives more flexibility and also an extra attack.

Death Jester - Bright Lance
57 pts

Death Jester - Bright Lance
57 pts

Death Jester - Shuriken Cannon
52 pts

The Bright Lance Jesters are fine, but here we start running into problems.  The Shuriken Cannon is simply an inferior weapon in my opinion.  I much prefer the Eldar Missile Launcher on my fire support Death Jesters--they have the S to take down light tanks but also can wear down some infantry units.

Death Jester - Shrieker Cannon
47pts

I've never had much success with the Shrieker Cannon.  I'd recommend removing this Death Jester entirely for more troops--4 is a bit too many in my opinion for such a small game.

6 Harlequins - 2 Kisses, 2 Plasma Pistols
170 pts

6 Harlequins - 2 Kisses, 2 Plasma Pistols
170 pts

6 Harlequins - 2 Power Weapons, 1 Plasma Pistol
167 pts

6 Harlequins - 2 Power Weapons, 1 Plasma Pistol
167 pts

I'm a big fan of numbers myself!  However, a couple problems seem to exist here.  First and foremost, the use of Plasma Pistols on footsloggers.  Footsloggers are meant to Fleet of Foot.  Therefore, they will only have at best one turn to shoot.  In my opinion sinking points into a single-shot weapon isn't worth the trouble.  However, sometimes you won't even get that shot, needing to FoF and then charge in the same turn.  Why?  If you keep your Harlequins dispersed to avoid blast templates, you will have trouble bringing them all into combat without that extra FoF.

My second issue is with the placement of the special weapons.  Although I appreciate your adherence to the doctrine, "Don't mix weapons," in the case of the Harlequins I find the flexibility granted taking a single Power Weapon and a single Harlequin's Kiss to counter-balance any possible negative effects.

Overall I rather like the list--redundant like few other Eldar.  Although it may lack speed, I feel it can still function at low point totals.  The first thing I'd recommend for a 1500 point army however is two Venoms packed with Harlies!

Good luck once again.

[englishharlie]

Shuriken Cannon v EML. The Cannons gets more shots and so you have more chance of actually scoring a hit, this is the only reason I see to take it over the EML. The EML is flexible but with only one shot it isn't as reliable.

Persoanlly I love the shrieker. Orks don't like break tests and nor do any other force that you can hurt with the shrieker. Daemons especially are a good option as you force a break test which is an instability test which has got to be good news, 1 dead from the shot say another 1 from the template and then possible further wounds from the instability test. All good.

I agree with the riveblade comment. Swap it for power blades, you get the choice and an extra attack assuming you give him a sPistol aswell.

The plasma on the foot sloggers. You've spent 30 points which is one extra harlie and 5 points to spend. I'd not bother changing it. If you do have to FoF you're not wasting that much but if you are in a position where you need to shoot you have got some firepower. Imagine an undamaged walker that your DJs have been missing or failing to damage. Suddenly it's in front of a troupe and you've got nothing to hurt it in assault. That's when the plasma pistols come into their own as you can blast it, ok if it still doesn't go down you're in trouble but then you were anyway so....

One thing I find confusing is when peole comment about spreading out to avoid template fire. I've found that to be really helpful for avoiding templates it does actually work. Problem, when spreading out to avoid templates you are almost certainly forced to spread  out into LOS and therefore open your troupe up for attack from regular weapons. Does anyone else find this to be a problem? You either spread out and suffer regular shooting attacks or bunch up and hide only to get templated. Oh how balanced and functional CJ39 is

English

[InfinityCircuit]

Shuriken Cannon v EML. The Cannons gets more shots and so you have more chance of actually scoring a hit, this is the only reason I see to take it over the EML. The EML is flexible but with only one shot it isn't as reliable.

Persoanlly I love the shrieker. Orks don't like break tests and nor do any other force that you can hurt with the shrieker. Daemons especially are a good option as you force a break test which is an instability test which has got to be good news, 1 dead from the shot say another 1 from the template and then possible further wounds from the instability test. All good.

I agree with the riveblade comment. Swap it for power blades, you get the choice and an extra attack assuming you give him a sPistol aswell.

The plasma on the foot sloggers. You've spent 30 points which is one extra harlie and 5 points to spend. I'd not bother changing it. If you do have to FoF you're not wasting that much but if you are in a position where you need to shoot you have got some firepower. Imagine an undamaged walker that your DJs have been missing or failing to damage. Suddenly it's in front of a troupe and you've got nothing to hurt it in assault. That's when the plasma pistols come into their own as you can blast it, ok if it still doesn't go down you're in trouble but then you were anyway so....

One thing I find confusing is when peole comment about spreading out to avoid template fire. I've found that to be really helpful for avoiding templates it does actually work. Problem, when spreading out to avoid templates you are almost certainly forced to spread  out into LOS and therefore open your troupe up for attack from regular weapons. Does anyone else find this to be a problem? You either spread out and suffer regular shooting attacks or bunch up and hide only to get templated. Oh how balanced and functional CJ39 is

English

I haven't really had a problem with spreading out, as most people underestimate the value of my large squads and instead focus on the Death Jesters, Venoms, etc.  I don't think it will be that much of a problem in this list either due to the sheer number of Harlequins available.

[englishharlie]

True enough, he has enough bodies to make it less of a problem. I was just wondering what people felt about it in general. I've found it to be a 'six of one and half a dozen of the other' situation. Sometimes I die from being spread out and in LOS other times I get wasted by templates. Oh well.

As for Venoms, I've found them to be quite the dangerous little beggers. If shot down any contents is really dead, should they bother to survive the initial crash they end up pinned and then wait for death in the next turn. I'm starting to think pure footsloggers is wiser as you can just load up on bodies, granted harlies can't get huge numbers but every wound counts. I think the best use I have for venoms at the moment is to guarantee where the enemy will shoot and I can therefore expose other units safe in the knowledge that the guns are gonna waste the venom. Not a good use of 45+ points but it is a use.

English