Topic: Trialing the 1000pt. WWP list

[Rathnard]

Okay, so I said I'd do it some time, and now I have. This afternoon I played a game against a Witchhunters army at 1000 points...using a WWP army.

The list I took was something like this:

Archon Marius - Agoniser, Spinter Pistol, Shadowfield, Combat Drugs, WWP - 181
Mae'lok the truely Insane (Haemonculus) - Scissorhands, Destructor, Hellion Skyboard
11 Warriors - 2x Dark Lances - 108
11 Warriors - 2x Dark Lances - 108
10x Raider Squad - Blaster, Splinter Cannon, inc Sybarite w. Agoniser + Terrorfex, Raider w. Disintegrator - 196
9x Raider Squad - Blaster, Splinter Cannon, inc Sybarite w. Agoniser, Raider w. Horrorfex - 173
9x Raider Squad - Blaster, Splinter Cannon, inc Sybarite w. Agoniser, Raider w. Horrorfex - 173
Total: 999

75% Troops - Just how I like it. 


My Opponents army:
Inquisitor Lord with retinue
Priest
Vindicare Assasin
2x units of ~10 Sisters of Battle, Decked out with flamers + Veteran Sisters
5x Seraphim w. 2x Flamers
2x Pentinent Engines
Exorcist

I should probably point out that my opponent took very little in the way of wargear - the Inquisitor Lord had no invulnerable save, and the Veteran Sisters weren't equipped with anything I was aware of. He did know I was taking a Dark Eldar army with a WWP, so he equipped his army to suit.

Anyway, a quick Battlereport:
The Mission played was Secure and control (loot counters). There where 3 counters on the board, 2 of them on my left flank, which is where we set up most of our armies (In my case, 2 DL squads plus the Haemonculus). Contesting the third counter on my right flank was my flying Haemonculus vs. his seraphim and Vindicare.

The first 2 turns where pretty uneventful. He advanced towards my army with everything, and my Dark Lances failed to do anything to the damn penitent engines. The Archon moved up behind cover and deployed the WWP on turn 2. My Haemonculus decided to throw caution into the wind and fly straight at the vindicare assasin, taking a wound off with his flamer, only to die shortly after to a turbo-penetrator round.

In turn three, all hell broke loose.    The three Raider squads all emerged from the portal, and along with my the Dark Lance squads (who finally decided to do their job) and the archon, I took out the Inquisitor, both Penitent Engines, one of the SOB squads, and pinned the second SOB squad. The Seraphim proved more than a match for the raider squad I sent to kill them (damn those faith points ), but apart form that hiccup, the rest of the game was essentially a cleanup operation. He had nothing left by the end of the game, and all I'd really lost was a raider squad, my Archon (mainly thanks to the combat drugs), and the Haemonculus.

While this was a total massacre, it wasn't a surprise. My opponent was relatively inexperienced, and his list could have potentially been a fair bit nastier.

Having said that, I did learn a few things from the game;

1) Seraphim are really, really nasty when you have faith points to blow on them.

2) Raider squads continue to be the single best and most versatile unit in the army, Especially when they're emerging from Webway Portals.

3) Dark Eldar Lords are definately the best unit to take WWPs at 1000pts. The small size of the game means you can't really take 2 portals, so it's imperative that you give the WWP-carrier as much protection as possible. The Archon with a shadowfield not only fits the bill nicely, but is also able to kick some serious arse after he's dropped the portal.

I think one of the biggest lessons however, is what I should be deploying at the start of the game.  In this case I had only my Archon, Haemonculus and DL squads deployed. I'd be reluctant to drop either DL squad, but the Archon will really need a more mobile squad to accompany him when facing an army I need to actually move towards.

So in my mind, a 1000pt WWP army should break down as follows;

HQ with a WWP (pref. a Lord)
2x Dark Lance squads (always a good distracton, & helps you neutralise those armoured targets early)
1x Warrior Squad to accompany the WWP-carrier
The Reserves starting in the WWP.

Depending on the exact points values, you should probably have around 500pts to spend on WWP reserves. I'd personally go for at least 1-2 raider squads, as I've found them to be ridiculously good thanks to their versatility.
The only thing I would strongly suggest is to ensure that the WWP reserves are FAST. Because you only have one WWP in the army, it makes it easier for a canny opponent to try and avoid it. As such, your reserves are going to need as much reach as possible. Once again, raider squads are great for this not only because they're fast, but because they can also put out alot of firepower, meaning it's not a total loss if you're too far away for an assault.

I might update my WWP tactica with this given the time, or possibly just write a seperate, short article for it. Regardless, tell me what you think. I'm interested in hearing other peoples experiences with 1000pt WWP armies as well.

[InfinityCircuit]

Thanks for the update!  I've been playtesting a list similar to yours, with 2 Sniper Squads, an 18 man Warrior slogger squad, and Archon, and 2 Raiders and a Talos in the gate.  I've played a game against Mechanized SM and was pleased with the result.  The Snipers took out a Predator, while the Webway portal was deployed on Turn 2 within range to charge on turn 3.  It wasn't quite a glorious victory because of a Drop Pod Dreadnaught that took down 250 points before dying.

Nonetheless, it seems that 2 Raider squads and a Talos is enough force from the WWP.  However, I wish there was some way to fit in mandrakes--but maybe there just isn't points!

EDIT: Does anyone have any suggestions for armies to playtest against?

[InfinityCircuit]

I hate to double-post, but I played a second game with the list against Necrons:

The Necron army had a Lord, ~30 Warriors, and a Monolith (Uh-oh).  On the first turn I shook the Monolith, and on the second I disabled it.  It didn't really do much except help with WWB rolls--however I didn't give them much chance for that!  I learned a bit from this encounter.  First of all, 18 men + Archon is exactly the right number to deploy the portal on turn two.  If I want to wait another turn, I think I'd have to take a second squad or up it to 20 men.  Secondly, the Talos is pure gold.   It greatly helps with its power weapon-esque attacks, and also helps with outnumbering more than a third Raider squad.  All in all the game was a total massacre.

My conclusions?  A Talos is definetly needed in the webway portal in small games.  It's even harder to kill at these costs.  Another possible idea is to try and fit in a second Talos, by removing a Sniper squad.  However, I'm not sure if this is worth it.  In addition, Raider squads ARE very flexible and quite strong.

Another thing is that I believe the WWP army can get stronger at smaller point totals, because it is easier to wipe an entire section of their army and leave them unable to recover.

For the exact equipment I'm playtesting with:

Archon w/ Agoniser, Splinter Pistol, Webway Portal, Shadowfield, Combat Drugs

18 Warriors w/ 2 Splinter Cannons, 2 Blasters, Sybarite w/ Poisoned Blades, Splinter Pistol

10 Warriors w/ 2 Dark Lances

10 Warriors w/ 2 Dark Lances

In WWP:

10 Warriors w/ Splinter Cannon, Blaster, Sybarite w/ Poisoned Blades, Splinter Pistol, in Raider w/ Dark Lance, Horrorfex

10 Warriors w/ Splinter Cannon, Blaster, Sybarite w/ Poisoned Blades, Splinter Pistol, in Raider w/ Disintegrator

Talos

Thanks again!

EDIT: As we speak I'm playing against my friend's 102 model, 50 Conscript, 2 Basilisk army.  I think I'm screwed

[Rathnard]

Thanks for the reply. It's good to know this sort ofd list can be quite successful. 

Mind you, destroying a monolith iwth the army you had is sheer luck! Statistically, your chances of killing a monolith with one dark lance shot is about 2%.

I was thinking about talking mandrakes as well, to protect my Archon while he deploys the portal. But try as I might, I couldn't really see the squad proving that useful. Oh well, maybe just keep them for the larger games.

For now, I'm going to try and avoid using the Talos. It's good, but at the moment I'm trying to minimise my use of the Talos in my armies, and I'm not entirely convinced that it will be fast enough against the more static armies. I know in larger games,there have been times where my raider-mounted troops have swept ahead and left the Taloi behind and too far away to help out. That's normally fine at 1500pts+ games, but in 1000 points it becomes more of an issue. So for now, my WWP reserves are going to consist of 3 Raider squads, decked out as much as the points will allow. 

As for armies to playtest against, a good start would be to fight a shooty horde, an assault horde, shooty powerarmour, and assault powerarmour. If this list can feasibly take on all those armies, then you have yourself a very, very good list. 

[InfinityCircuit]

I didn't destroy the Monolith, I shook it, then Immobized it, then did nothing, then destroyed one weapon, and then destroyed the other weapon. 

Well I finished playing against the 102 model list.  At the end of the game I had half of a sniper squad left, nothing else.  But he had nothing .  Basically I deployed the portal within 12" of his thickly packed lines on turn two, and then he proceeded to wipe out my Archon and my entire bodyguard squad.  However my reserves came out, slammed into the conscripts, killed 21...and they held!  His Command Platoon was in range.   However I ended up making the Conscripts run, but not before the rest of his army got into combat and wiped out the Raider squad.  However, once he took out the Raider and the Talos with a lucky shot, he had only 20 guardsmen to my 20 snipers.  It was a shooting match that I won.

Lessons learned?
-Talos is a necessity!  The ability to not be touched by S3 troups is tremendous.  I'm sure that if I had a third Raider squad here it would have been a failure.  The Talos can charge in, have enough attacks to win the combat, and then with outnumbering bonus sweeping advance over the running enemies.  I was pleased with the performance
-Sniper squads are good in small games.  They are relatively hard to kill, and very quick at taking out tanks.  His Basilisks did nothing.  However, I'm thinking that once my reserves hit I should start marching these guys up the field for lack of shooting targets to try and act as a second wave.  Ideas?
-I think the list is OK the way it is.  However, that game was without a doubt the bloodiest I have ever played.

I'm considering playtesting it against my other friend's power armor horde army...50 or so SM in PA.  However I think I'll go for Chaos Space Marines.

EDIT: OK, I played a fourth game against Daemonhunters.  This guy took 12 Grey Knights, 6 Teleporting Grey Knights, a Grandmaster, and a Dreadnaught.  I thought it would be easy--so few models!  But Grey Knights are ROCK hard.  They took out my entire bodyguard squad and Archon by the second turn, although I did get the WWP down.  In the meantime I killed their dread.  My reserves hit, BARELY knocked out a squad of Grey Knights (that new Fearless rule is really good ) and slammed into the other Grey Knight squad.  The Talos meanwhile took two turns killing the Grandmaster, who was unable to roll well at all.  However, the Grey Knights made up for his poor rolling by making every single save (~9) and killing off my Raider squads.  My Talos finished off these Grey Knights, leaving my opponent with none of his original guys on the board.  However, the teleporting GKs came on, wiped out a Sniper Squad, and were in turn finished off by the other Sniper Squad.  In the end I only had 7 guys from a Sniper squad and 2 raiders left on the board.

Lessons learned?
-GKs are rock hard!  I can't imagine facing them in a 2k point battle.  The Shrouding is a pain.
-Talos are needed for enemy characters, IMHO.
-GKs are fun to play against

Changes?
I'm considering downgrading the Archon to a Dracon--the extra attacks never do anything.  Using the extra points, I could give one of my Raider squads an Agonizer.  Another thing I'm considering is dropping the weapons on the Bodyguard squad--they never survive to use them.  I could add an Agonizer to the other Sybarite with this.  Any ideas?

EDIT #2: I'm playing a fifth game today against a 60-guy Ripper Swarm with Warriors...and it looks like my right flank is just about to fold up 

EDIT #3: I finished the game, and won!!!!  First turn I shot down his big bugs, but his sixty rippers came forward.  I deployed the WWP on my left flank.  My plan was to try and wipe out the rippers on the left flank and hope my right flank holded long enough.  However, 19 Rippers made this a lost hope, and my right flank folded up.  The Rippers started to run down my lines.  Fortunately, the middle of the line held with the help of the Dracon and the 16 man bodyguard squad.  The Dracon eventually killed himself with combat drugs while the rippers killed my sniper squads.  Fortunately, my Warrior squads saved the day and I was able to end the game with only the raiders and a single raider squad.  That was really close, and only because the Rippers were unable to hit me!  Really poor rolling on the Ripper's part helped though.

Conclusions?
-The changes I made are good, even if this wasn't the best game to showcase them (-Archon, -1 Warrior, -Poisoned Blades on Raider squads, +Agonizers on raider squads, +Dracon)
-Talos are still good!  Even against Rending Claws the ability to be able to ignore the other attacks is very valuable.
-Warriors MUST be the core of the force.  High I and good shooting make Warriors the premier troop choice here.  No Wyches at these values!

Maybe next I'll play against my other friend's daemon bomb army

EDIT 4: I played a sixth game today against Harlequins using the EO revision.  I'll admit that this time I put my friend at the wheel of my army, and returned to my Harlequins.  I'll spare you a description, but in the end it was a draw because of the strength of the Harlequin characters. 

Conclusions?
-After the Dracon falls I have no way to deal with strong characters but to swamp them.
-In Reserves missions I NEED the WWP guy starting on the board.  But can I do that in small games?  Something to be considered.
-Static playing doesn't work even if you want them to come to you.  You must actively funnel them where you wish.