Topic: Returning Questions RE: Superheavies, Commissars and Antitank

[Hamburgler Hill]

Hi Folks. Given the new rules set I've been wondering quite a lot recently if anyone takes super heavies in games now that we have access to them?

I've toyed with the idea of using a banehammer in 1.5k-2k and wonder if anyone else had been doing the same?

What's the consensus on how OP this is? (Because in my mind it seems too OP but I've come up against opponents doing it and honestly had no counter - even in some national tournaments!)

Also does anyone still run squad commies? I want them to stop my blobs running but with the new focus/targeted fire rules being more and more difficult for that plucky little chap to dodge it's making them more of a liability in many cases.

Finally, re: antitank/anti air and our (overdue) access to flakk rockets is anyone starting to take these in more games? My old lists used to rely heavily on blobs packing lascannons to defeat enemy air and armor (with twin link) butpoints wise it looks so steep as to be barely worth it. I always refused to buy vendettas and valks - part of me was/is very cynical about the pay to win button that air support represents in my view.  Superheavies are a very obvious sibling of that.

Thanks for any thoughts!

[Crawfskeezen]

I too have been looking into super heavies as an addition to my army. I'd not want to bring it every game purely because no one would want to play me anymore: "oh no, here comes the 46th with their rolling castle," but a few of my friends have discussed the potential of playing with one in a themed game. I just got the escalation book and the rules look pretty good, points costs are what I'd expect.

The fact is other than needing many shot and HP removals to take them down, the Baneblade for example has only armour 14 on its front facing, no other, so they're not completely invulnerable. Deepstrike and outflank or encircle it and your odd are more favourable. But it can't be easy to kill, otherwise what's the point?

Never was a big power blob man myself, that said Commies being cheaper and an - I think - improvement to the Summary Execution rule means that even if you do fail an LD test you may not have to shoot your PW wielding Sergeant in the head. However you're now limited in the number you can take: one for every CCS or PCS in your army so the Commie spam isn't as powerful as once was.

Missiles are not my weapon de jour. In fact I just yesterday killed 3 missile launcher teams in order to make them into mortar teams because I literally never used them. Missiles do 2 things - one well (kill light infantry), and one alright (AT). In my opinion if you want to kill infantry directly, Heavy Bolters are where its at; indirectly Mortars are what you want because in the guard its not "hiding" its "strategic positioning."  If you want to kill armour Autocannons (Volume) and Lascannons (Power). As for the AA, 25 points for a missile launcher with flakk isn't worth it in my opinion as you can get a Hydra for 5 points less than the 3 upgrades and thats not including the squad's base cost. With the ability to take a Leman Russ squadron as an HQ, losing a heavy Support slot to a Hydra isn't as hurting anymore. A Valkyrie clocks in at 5 points more expensive than the whole squad (base and 3 launchers with flakk) in the new dex but you mention that you're not a fan of planes which I understand. Perhaps my having 2 slants my view a bit in terms of their comparative usefulness.

My struggle personally is deciding which pattern of IG superheavy I would take, I have to do some research but the 40 man capacity Stormlord looks quite tempting.

[spunkybass]

We've actually tried this a few times at our games club at 1850pts. I've tried out a Baneblade, supporting 2 platoons of infantry and a couple of Leman Russ, with 2 Vendetta for air cover. My opponent had a Warhound with his IG army. It was bloody, with both superheavies blown up (mine was killed in 2 turns). Another time I had a Shadowsword against a Space Marine player with a Warhound. Again, both superheavies died glorious deaths (and again my superheavy died in 2 turns). I've also tried out my Windrider/mech Eldar army against an IG army with a Warhound. The Eldar easily won that game, blowing up the Warhound in 2 turns.

It's quite fun actually. And everytime a superheavy dies, it seems that it will take something else with it. When my Baneblade blew up, it took an enemy Leman Russ. A Warhound explosion took out a hovering Vendetta. Another Warhound explosion wiped out an Eldar jetbike squad that got to close.

I guess once in awhile, it's a pretty fun thing. But I don't know if I'd enjoy playing superheavies in all my 40k games. You should try it though.

[ranger_scout]

Super heavies are fun but not game breakers one like eldar rever titians and thunderhawk gun ships maybe but the banbalde gets ripped in CC or by normal AT stuff if taken in number.  I used the stock banblade in 1500 pts it was a 1/3 of my army and did not earn its points back vs no other superheavies  adn then got killed meaning I lost the game due to rules when fielding them.  Take if you want to have fun it is not competitive or op as opponent has to agree so they know what they are up against.

As for commissars yea they got a boost as mentioned before but one should note that it can kill off a heavy weapons team on a 1/3 dice roll as the opponet gets to chose look at the wording and weep as there goes a expensive team worth about 30pts from him shooting one Las cannon heavy (guardsmen cost included) weapons team.  Still on the other roll bam scrub or sgt. who has pistol and was doing sod all gone and rallied.  worth noting the boot in Ld and that rule make em hard to route

As for AA.  Hydra if you want or a vendetta.   both will rip the stuff apart you need bar Av 12 or higher fliers

[Hamburgler Hill]

All valid points. The main reason I brought up the Superheavy thing is because, now in the UK and defo in my region, D weapon spam in 1500-2000 points is now unavoidable. This has been sanctioned in tournament play across the board and honestly the only way to counter it is to bring your own D weapon lists sadly It's truly awful. I'm sure in time most of you chaps will become intimately acquainted with The Transcendent C'tan spam horrors that have destroyed our meta as they spread. (Saw a game the other day with these in against a guy who had no superheavy support at 2000 - wiped out in 2 turns).

[Wyddr]

Ouch. That sounds no fun at all.

Around here, things have gone the exact opposite direction. Superheavies are forbidden from *everything* except the occasional Apocalypse throw-down or friendly games with opponent permission.

[ranger_scout]

Yea sorry new cover statement for that none D weapon super heavies are fun!  don't seem to powerful but do damage yet they are killable.

D weapons are just messed in standard games. Some one can take the eldar titan and win. or many other inst-a win d weapon models...  They really only belong in apoc but different topic.