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Offline prot

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The Rise of Prot ZA113 : Necron project
« on: October 25, 2010, 01:49:25 PM »
So I've been fuddling around in the dark with my 'comeback' to Necrons.

I thought maybe I should make a new post and instead of just focus on a list. I hope to make ongoing contributions to this post as a kind of 'growing pains' sort of take on my re-adjusting to Necrons in 5th edition.

I used to play these guys a lot, and really didn't do much with them in the second half of 4th edition, and not at all in 5th edition where I sold my rather large army.

A little bit more background:

The history of my username: Prot comes from two armies actually. Prot is short for Prototype. Way back when necrons
 first came out, I came up with a background for my necrons, not satisfied with the somewhat dry background GW had formed the codex on.

I wanted to adhere to the background that existed, and while I did not want to give Necrons a goofy twist, I did want to add something to mine... to the whole race if I could.

If you're curious, the second use of "Prot" came from the short name of my Farseer Prot'ilious. He went through my first go around with Ulthwe, to my current Alaitoc eldar.

A New Beginning:


After selling my army I had to come back with a good scheme that gave me proper motivation while respectfully following the established appearances of the Necrons. Since I was starting again from scratch, I came up with this (please note, the destroyers and Lord are not quite complete):







More Background Please...


Next up I wanted to establish more history. Originally I had found that I wanted to flesh out the army background from two areas: Established history of the Nocrontyr, their fallen race, and their affiliation with the C'tan. And secondly I wanted to give my army a little more identity.

Prot or Prototype ZA113 is an imperial designation. A strange, one in a million incident happened on planet marked as ZA113 by the Inquisition. The incident is so unique it became one of the extreme cases where the Imperium had some form, albeit it small, of insight into the evolution of the Necrons.

I have written a fluff piece about this years ago, and I will update it. It comes with a piece of art I did, and I will post it shortly.

Playing the Undying Robot Race in 5th ed:

Thanks to some of the people on this forum I have been experimenting with a list that relies on some heavy 'synergy' with units across the army.

At 1850 the list looks like this:
HQ:
Deceiver
Lord w/Gaze of Flame, Res. Orb, Warscythe

TROOPS:
10 Warriors
11 Warriors

ELITES:
8 Flayed Ones
4 Pariahs

FAST:
4 Destroyers

HEAVY:
Monolith
2 Heavy Destroyers
2 Tomb Spyders.

We're just about caught up on where I am. My first game with this list was a loss, but a very close loss that came down to a 5th turn assault against Blood Angels. I missed some of the subtleties of the army in this game, and made an error (listening to my opponent who meant well) and went first.... This put me in a hole I could never quite come back from.

Considering the 'green' matter in which I played the army (pun intended), I took on the list again. I drew a different Blood Angel player and a good list. The game was a real brawl, and it got ugly, fast.

Please check out the full Batrep with pictures - HERE --> http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=206780.0

I hope to continue this thread with more pictures, more of everything really.

Thanks for reading.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 01:54:27 PM by prot »

Offline moc065

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Re: The Rise of Prot ZA113 : Necron project
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2010, 02:52:05 PM »
Thanks for sharing and Welcome back to the Tomb.

I love the name Prot ZA113, and the paint scheme is unique and wonderfully well done, so full prop's in that regard. I also read the Batrep you linked to, and the first mini batrep you gave (I think you played well).

I do have a few minor suggestions for you (since your still building/painting things anyway).

At 1850 the list looks like this:
HQ:
Deceiver
Lord w/Gaze of Flame, Res. Orb, Warscythe
I like al this, you can add more wargear; but I don't think you need it.

TROOPS:
10 Warriors
11 Warriors
For personal reasons I go wtih even numbers, and I would add one or lose one Warrior to the second squad (it can help for regrouping etc, even thought its rare).

ELITES:
8 Flayed Ones
What, your actually using these guys (pun intended), I am building mine ASAP as I playtested them a few times and they actually worked well enough to warrent use in more games, only part I don't like is that they are Necrons.
4 Pariahs
I would take more of these, and I find 7 to be the bare minimum anytime I go over 1500pts.

FAST:
4 Destroyers
I like paired units and I would go with more of these and less H-Destroyers or vice versa. 12 shots is OK; but one return volley will often have all 4 machines going down, and then WBB will not be an option.

HEAVY:
Monolith
Its cool in your list and one of the main reasons that I would go with paired teams as often as you can.
2 Heavy Destroyers
I don't find them that good, and between these 2 and the 1 warrior you could get 3 Destroyers to use as tag team with the first unit, anyway, just a thought.
2 Tomb Spyders.
One of the most under-rated units in the Necron Codex, and I love the fact that you using them. Use all of their abilities to really enhance the overall effectiveness of your force, and you might even fidn that you want more of them as time progresses.

Overall though, I love the overall feel and look of the list, its unique and it has some hidden surprises for almost any enemy you meat (pun intended) so fair the well with it, and have fun/

PS, keep us informed as to how your doing, and too bad you didn't jump into the KoN Campaign, as all machines were welcome.

Cheers
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Offline prot

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Re: The Rise of Prot ZA113 : Necron project
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2010, 09:05:51 AM »
Thanks Moc,

I have to admit a good portion of my list is based on what I own for models. I do have some stuff not shown in these pictures, but I really liked the idea of keeping with the Pariah theme. Maybe not because they are so strong, but because I love the theme. Plus I have to admit I have grown fond of holding them back, and tempting my opponent to try to come to grips with them. Then counter charging with them and enjoying some really serious results on those uber, high point characters.

I will tweak the list considering your advice though.... On paired units I am not sure how big to go with Destroyer squads. I have now played 3 games with the Heavy Destroyers and I'm pretty frustrated with them... one shot, better strength, but feels extremely OVER priced for essentially a 36" twin linked Lascannon!!!!

I'll post a modified list. I'd love to get more Pariahs in the list. I feel the list is close.... but I have yet to face a 'horde' style army. That might come this weekend.

List coming shortly....

Offline moc065

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Re: The Rise of Prot ZA113 : Necron project
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2010, 09:46:35 AM »
If I were tweeking your list (which I am not - as my usage and playstyle is not that same as yours) here is where I would go.

HQ:
(300) Deceiver
(165) Lord w/Gaze of Flame, Res. Orb, Warscythe
TROOPS:
(180) 10 Warriors
(180) 10 Warriors
ELITES:
(126) 6 Flayed Ones
(252) 6 Pariahs
FAST:
(150) 3 Destroyers
(150) 3 Destroyers
HEAVY:
(235) Monolith
(110) 2 Tomb Spyders

1848pts, 2SU's, 11KP's, and PO=8/34 with 45 Figures
     Look at all those "Twin" units, even the FOC's have Pairs. Anyway, enough about that, the part I like about this avenue of thinking is that is does offer you a few more Pariah to work with (A unit which I also love) while beefing up your Destroyer section for shooting; eventhough it does lose the 2 Heavies and 1 Flayed One. It still maintains a viable PO number (easily protected through Warrior Conservation, etc) and it has good shock absorbers to ofset CC action from most enemies. I ran some Math and here are my feelings on the 130pts TL-Lascannon unit vs the 2 extra Destroyers I offer up.
TL-Lascannon of Heavy Destroyers
2 shots = 1.33 hits, with 1.11 wounds on average (probably Cover Save at best which is 50/50 or 0.555 actual kills on infantry)
    Vs Armour its about the same, as there tends to be Smoke, or Cover all over 5th Ed, so only a 0.26 chance to actually Immob/wreck/explode and enemy vehicle.
2 extra Destroyers
6 shots = 4 hits, with 3.33 wounds on averabe (assuming the 3+ PA save thats actually about 1.111 kills or better on infantry) twice that of the H-Destroyer on average.
    Vs Armour it varies from AV-10 to AV-14 as they will always get at least a 0.667 chance to Glance at least (AV=12+) and better odds vs the lighter armour. But the real beauty is that the enemy now has to actually destroy all 6 of them, apposed to only 2 as WBB becomes a much larger factor not to mention Target Devision from 2 units, etc. Personnally I have not seen too many awesome results from Necron Shooting in 5th Ed; but I do find that the volumne of dice can help.

Mind you that is all theory hammer, and there is little chance that you will remove a Vindicators big Cannon on the 1st turn of the game; but the chances are still there.

I do hope that helps.

Cheers
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Offline prot

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Re: The Rise of Prot ZA113 : Necron project
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2010, 02:32:47 PM »
Ok, I have thought this over and tried to come to a logical decision with the list tweaks.

So far I like the 'synergy' of the list. Some things need to be tougher, and some things just plain didn't work (after 2-3 games).

So here we go:
HQ:
195: Lord w/Orb, Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Gaze of Flame
IOIO note: Phase shifter was hard to fit in the list (at the cost of a 6th Pariah) but I found myself using this FAR more than I thought I would as opponents found the Lord very annoying. IOIO

300: The Deceiver

TROOPS:
180: 10 x Warriors
180: 10 x Warriors
IOIO note: rounded down one warrior to save points. IOIO

ELITES:
180: 5 x Pariahs
IOIO note: Increased by one model. It was tempting to go further. At this size they should still be very 'hidable'  and allow for a decent counter charge but as primarily a leadership killer, I just couldn't go bigger right now with my current theme intact. IOIO

168 8 x Flayed Ones w/disruptor fields
IOIO note: I couldn't budge these guys down. I find they are too important. They buffer the Pariahs and are connected to the Lord. Their size is important because they have no redundancy (I realized how much I need these guys alive last game.) They got disrupter fields due to point spill over, plus I found the Lord could go after vehicles, at least these guys can help on bigger stuff. IOIO

HEAVIES:
235: Monolith

110: 2 x Tomb Spyders

FAST ATTACK:
150: 3 x Destroyers

150: 3 x Destroyers

Total: 1848 of 1850.

So this is most likely the line up for this weekend's brawl. All subject to change if it does badly (!) But there it is.

Hobby wise I don't like proxying much so although I have to continue to proxy Pariahs for the meantime, I have been working on more destroyers, and an extra heavy destroyer. I hope to post some results on those soon.




Offline Matte

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Re: The Rise of Prot ZA113 : Necron project
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2010, 03:22:07 PM »
I cannot see the dis field on the flayed ones ever getting used, unless they never do what they are intended to do that is. I do not know what you should use the 24 points for though, but I cannot think of dis. fields being the best use for the points. Phylactery could however make the lord a bit more fun, or if you save some points on other stuff you could get a destroyer lord which would do good to hunt down tanks/infantry and/or contest some objectives.

I do think you would do good with some more pariahs. From what I have read the pariahs are often only put into use once. After that they become priority #1 for anyone who ever has faced them.

Tell us some more about how you plan to use the army and we would be able to help some more. I like to use the destroyer body with the warscythe lord, but unless it is to hunt tanks and weak infantry it is probably better to not have a destroyer lord in an army. I would think you have all the WBB rolls you need with the monolith so I would go against the advice of another spyder. Each point you save could be used for a destroyer which will be your key component in the army as I understand. 3 shoots more will always help...

Offline moc065

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Re: The Rise of Prot ZA113 : Necron project
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2010, 04:48:09 PM »
I gotta agree that a Phyactory would be more fun than DF's on the Flayed Ones. I do like the rest though, and my software awaits an update on the new lists performance.

Cheers
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Offline prot

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Re: The Rise of Prot ZA113 : Necron project
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2010, 06:52:45 PM »
Ah perfect! The Phylactery it is .

I really didn't know what to do with those points and I didn't want to add any models unless they were Pariahs. So this is perfect. Thanks guys.

 


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