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Author Topic: Help the Eldar destroy Space Marines and Blood Angels!  (Read 1178 times)

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Offline - Aegis -

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Help the Eldar destroy Space Marines and Blood Angels!
« on: April 17, 2003, 03:59:20 PM »
     I'm pretty new here, but I have played and watched enough games to see that killing off Space Marines and Blood Angels is a rough task. Most of my friends play these two types, so there is not much help from them on how to destroy their own armies. Therefor, in the interest of humiliating those darn humans, and furthuring the name and honor of the Eldar, I implore you to send some helpful tactics that could be used to rip through the aforementioned armies.
Victories: ∞
Draws: 1
Losses: -24

Offline Baggie Boy

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Re:Help the Eldar destroy Space Marines and Blood Angels!
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2003, 04:15:51 PM »
2 things first:-

1.What army will you use Vanilla or craft world and if so which one??

2.How many points will this army be.

General comments:

Marines fear Dark Reapers, Banshees and Star Cannons.
Bright Lances and D-Cannons too but to a lessor extent.

G

Gordon

"I Think i need a bigger gun"

Offline Timster

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Re:Help the Eldar destroy Space Marines and Blood Angels!
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2003, 02:13:58 PM »
I find that Dark reapers and Howling banshees work best agains Marine troops.  Warp spiders are good for hit and runs, as well as taking out tanks.  You can also alway's use a wraithlord.    You might wand to use a farseer with mindwar because the blood angles have so many nasty characters.
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Offline Apocalypse

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Re:Help the Eldar destroy Space Marines and Blood Angels!
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2003, 11:27:25 PM »
ok. I would first like to point something out.

everyone that says that reapers and banshees kill marines the best dont know there ass from a hole in the ground.

I use 4 full aspect units in my biel tan.(dragons banshees scorpions and reapers)

no one aspect kills more than the other.
I have seen a unit of reapers kill a whole unit of marines. I have also seen my banshees dragons and scorpions do it as well.

they all kill on average 5-7 per turn each.

really the trick to smashing marines is using all of your army in unison.

you must first shoot 2 units with your dragons and reapers, and then assault and finish off the rest with banshees and scorpions.

if you really thing the banshees and reapers kill more than anything else, you really dont know alot about your army.


try paying attention to the kills per unit next game.....
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Offline FarseerExodite

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Re:Help the Eldar destroy Space Marines and Blood Angels!
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2003, 12:42:12 AM »
okay here's the deal with blood angels, all you need to do is take the initiative and find out what is in which rhino (demand the cheating f**k to bring an army list, i play Blood Angels, i know how bad some of my comrades can be, completley ruined the experience for me when people started playing them to win, i think i'm the only BA fluff lover alive...but i digress)

then drop  that one first, won't be hard man, it's only armor 11, and you should have at lewast 3 bright lances runnin around the table, it's just good for your health

killin marines aint a hard task, you just can't let them bunch up, when they bunch up they just turn into necrons pretty much

so make sure to set terrain so he has to rally in a bottle neck before he can launch the main assault, in in between these two stages of the assault that you need to lynch him, also, stay spread out if you're playin anythin that isn't a Ghost or Swordwind army, that'll really tick them off

banshees: screw 'em, too fragile, if you wanna STOP marines you need to either annihilate (banshees will drop 5) or out tough them...SCORPIONS! (learn to love them)

of course if you wanna go on the annihilate path have a pack of 9 fire dragons in a wave serpent with a guideing farseer leading them (yes, ow)

all in all, eldar are the best choice for killin marines, we can actually put a "you don't get any armor save from anything i have on the table"army down on the field of battle

final note: i say bring scorpions because ideally you should be building lists that can handle themselves against everything, scorps are a jack of all trades (haywire nades, strength, toughness, power fists, infiltration, defense, speed bump)...i'll stop ranting now, i'm sure someone a little wiser than i will come along

Offline Witch King

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Re:Help the Eldar destroy Space Marines and Blood Angels!
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2003, 10:10:04 AM »
Banshees Fragile?
C'mon i've continuesly had situations were one squad of them proced to rip apart most of marine armies (the other part falling to Reaperss and Rangers/Pathfinders)
"We shall strike down our foes with sharp steel and cold hearts. The weak die so that the strong prevail and none shall be spared. Then and only then will our enemies know the true meaning of fear."

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Offline FarseerExodite

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Re:Help the Eldar destroy Space Marines and Blood Angels!
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2003, 01:42:30 PM »
welll of course you have, that's what banshees do, they drop 5 marines after the reapers drop the first 5, that's the banshee thing

i was talkin about making a model last, after you clear away that squad of marines, any smart marine player (yeah, they're out there) will fall back and heavy bolter the banshees to death

i just think someone who puts "i'm pretty new here" in their post should take the high road and learn to use Scorpions first, before playin around with banshees, if you can go through a game keepin nearly all your scorpions alive while gettin them to pay for themselves, then it's time to move up to the banshee strike force (admit it, they're a rapid attack squad, you can't have them taking shots on their way to close combat, nor can you have them out numbered)

Offline Witch King

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Re:Help the Eldar destroy Space Marines and Blood Angels!
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2003, 02:07:47 PM »
True except that unfortunantly i've had situations were scorps would fail to take out any marines while outnumbering them, as well as situations were a squad of banshees chew through squad after squad...
Scorps though they wound more they will more often then not fail to penetrate the marines armor while when the banshees do wound then the marine is dead (unless he's from the death company or has an inv. save)  
"We shall strike down our foes with sharp steel and cold hearts. The weak die so that the strong prevail and none shall be spared. Then and only then will our enemies know the true meaning of fear."

Malekith, The Witch King of Naggaroth

Offline Culeagh

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Re:Help the Eldar destroy Space Marines and Blood Angels!
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2003, 04:37:58 AM »
Just wondering, what version of the assault rules do you play? The ones in the big black rule book or the new ones from chapter approved 2003. If you are not playing the chapter approved 2003 rules then I highly suggest that you go out and buy that book and then force the new and highly improved rules upon your sweeping advance crazed friends.

True except that unfortunantly i've had situations were scorps would fail to take out any marines while outnumbering them,

This is just bad luck. It won't happen often. Ten scorps on the charge should kill a little more than 4 marines before the marines take a swing. That is with average rolling (lots of 4's). You should add an exarch with a scorp's claw to that squad. He'll get two of em almost everytime. And don't forget your mandiblasters.

Quote
as well as situations were a squad of banshees chew through squad after squad...
Scorps though they wound more they will more often then not fail to penetrate the marines armor while when the banshees do wound then the marine is dead (unless he's from the death company or has an inv. save)  

Please note that when a banshee wounds a death company marine they are indeed 'all the way dead'. They can not ignore power weapon attacks. The same is true if you hit it with a str 8 weapon. There is no ignoring those either.

Against Blood Angels Death Company, banshees can and will kick ass. If you can ignore the death company, do so. They count as destroyed for victory points purposes. Even if they didn't lose a member.

The more rhinos that are rushing you the more anti-tank weapons you need.
You will all die.

Offline Nighteye

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Re:Help the Eldar destroy Space Marines and Blood Angels!
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2003, 04:44:35 AM »
i think i'm the only BA fluff lover alive...but i digress)

Not true, not true. I've been playing with Sanguinius favorites all the way back since 2nd edition. Before the new codex was out. Just gotta love those crazed psychos :-) The emperors most devoted if you ask me.
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Offline Capt Phoenix

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Re:Help the Eldar destroy Space Marines and Blood Angels!
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2003, 05:35:07 PM »
Let's not forget the human factor here,gentles. Everybody seems to be best at playing some units. For example; I LOVE Banshees. I clean whole table quarters with the girls. The tales i could tell... Like the time My shees routed one unit of necrons and chased it off the board (no WBB for you, matey), wiped out a second in HTH in the process (power weapons - your not gettin up either), and then wiped out three destroyers and a heavy destroyers just for sheer high spirits. And they still had seven girls left when the Necs phased!
 My friend who plays Eldar, however, never seems to get much out of the ladys; they are lucky to get one or two kills before dying. His Scorps are quite good, though, and his Warp spiders are a holy terror!
 A newbie would be best advised to try them all and see what he likes best. Find a friend who'll let you proxy before you spend all that money, and test things out.

To that end, here are some of my observations about these three:

Scorps: One thing that is often overlooked about these bug-boys is just how well they defend against charges. Let's face it; Eldar have a tendency to vaporize when marines get the bounce on us, and you can't always stop that from happening (especially against BA rhino-squads). The scorps, however, get 2 attacks PLUS a mandiblaster for three attacks - even defending. With their high initiative, they will usually strike first with all three! The mandi will even go before Genestealers! Assuming you've weakened the stealers with fire before hand, this can really save your bacon. And against Marines, imagine the look on his face when he's so proud that he gets 2 attacks +1 for charging...only to find out that you get three attacks FIRST! With the base-to-base figures dead, he ends up throwing rocks at your 3+ armor. His assault sputtering to an ignomius halt, you grin as you reach for your....

Howling Banshees: These are (as the wise have already said in this thread) commando raiders. The key rule for them is; "Never let the other guy swing back." You should see a flurry of power weapons, and when the dust clears, there is no one left to fight. Then the Banshees consolidate to a safer spot and prepare for the next strike. They should always be hitting stuff that's isolated from support, small, or vulnerable. You should see the look on a SMurf's face as he reaches for his dice to try to make 10 5+ saves for his terminators. "Armor? You don't need no stinking armor!"
Because they need to pick their targets so carefully, I consider it manditory for them to have a waveserpent. Not only does it's mobility justify it's cost; you can even take out obnoxius critters (Like death company yahoos) with it's twin-linked starcannons. AND...If that wasn't enough; it also draws a lot of fire from those heavy weapons (the ones that have AP4 and higher) away from your girls after they drop off. This increases their survival and the chance that they will get to fleet-of-foot into somebody else next turn.

Warp Spiders: These arachnaphiles are flexibility defined. They are fast, shooty (str 6!), and sneakily assaulty. I suspect the biggest mistake people make with them is trying to use them alone. They do it all, but they don't do anything as well as the specialists. They don't shoot as well as fire dragons, or assault as well as scorpians, BUT...they assault better than fire dragons and shoot better than scorpians. The way they seem most effective is as a mobile reserve. They can happily back up anyone who is in over their head and then disengage to do it again for someone else next turn. This is particularly usefull agaist POA armies (Point-of-Attack: Concentrating force against one spot in an attempt to destroy parts of an enemies' army before he can respond) such as Rhino-Rushers. Just when he thinks he has you overwhelmed on a flank, teleporting blip-heads show up and say,"I don't thins so quicks-draw."

Note also how usefull these troops become together:
Scorpians blunt the charge and the marine ends up with half his squad tied in melee. Then the banshees fleet-of-foot around him and charge in wiping him out before he can swing back. Then everybody consolidates so that the scorps are back in front waiting to do it all again. If the assault comes in two squads strong, the warp spiders can do their "surprise assault" and disengage manuever to help out, or they can blip forward to shoot at (and weaken) the next wave and blip back to safety. Used together, these folks become a criminally effective tag-team. With the reapers messing up his attempts to bunch up for mass charges, you should have little trouble dealing with the rhino-riders.
 If you are still worried about the scorps survivability, just throw fortune on them and let them re-roll their 3+ saves...Then grin like an Irishman that just discovered the beer's free.
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Offline Duke Leto

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Re:Help the Eldar destroy Space Marines and Blood Angels!
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2003, 01:12:33 AM »
i agree completly with captain pheonix. banshees in my opinion are for taking out small (but expensive) squads or independant characters. this way when they charge in and get their hits first they usually cause enough wounds to take out or at least seriously downsize those little squads so that they dont take to much damage in return.
          however id say scorps are better to start with as they are far more forgiving when you make a mistake. but if you pick your targets well banshees outclass them by a bit. by the way thank you very much for the tips on using spiders. ive been having a real hard time using these guys and was about to totally give up on ever using these guys again.

Offline - Aegis -

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Re:Help the Eldar destroy Space Marines and Blood Angels!
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2003, 10:36:55 AM »
The advice from all of you has been very helpful in creating a marine-killing army, and the breakdowns of the different unit skills has been extremely helpful indeed in crafting a Tau-killing army as well... oh, and it is now official: Tau are the most fun army to fight I have ever encountered. My marine-playing friends actually felt as though they accomplished something in defeating the Tau... I lost miserably, and I still feel as though I accomplished something.
      Anyways, on the topic at hand... Answers to a few of your questions, so everyone can narrow down the tactics: I truly have not decided on a craftworld, but I am torn between Biel Tin, Ulthwe, and making one up. I like the idea of having two Farseers as one HQ unit, which can use to Guide any sweet projectiles that may be flying into the Marines' facemasks, and filling out the other space with a Phoenix Lord, or an Avatar, or something... I plan on having a maxed out unit of both Howling Banshees (minus the War Shout, which is useless against Marines) and Striking Scorpions. Everything else is loaded into Heavy Support and healthy wall of Guardians. I could easily win a war of atrition (correct term usage?) like this, or even lead an assult with the same army, depending on how the terrain presents itself. My friends and I will most likely be playing 1500 point armies, though a 1000 or 2000 point army would not surprise me. I am also free to experiment here, as most of the armies I have played have been composed of Proxy pieces... my two Putty Farseers, my six putty Warwalkers, and my Vypers, my Falcon, my Wraithlord... Oh man, I have way too much time on my hands...
Victories: ∞
Draws: 1
Losses: -24

 


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