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Offline .:Darkness:.

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500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« on: March 25, 2007, 06:07:09 AM »
OK I'm in luck, this weekend i was having a chat with my local store owner and he was thinking of holding a campaign / tournament for all those people just starting a new army.
I'm going to be using this thread as my ongoing progress report - additional lists as the army grows.

It hasn't been finalized but the details are as follows; You start with a 500pt list. You play one game ever two weeks. If you win you get an extra, maybe 200 pts to spend on your army. Lose and I'm not sure how much you get.

The aim of the tournament is to be the first person to reach a 2500 or 2000 point army (Not sure which it is yet) Winner gets a battleforce of their choice  ;D.

The catch is, that it has to be a new army not an existing army. Therefore after you win, or lose, you have so many points to spend, then you have two weeks to buy, paint up your new part of the army then play your next game. The bigger catch is that you get deducted points if you change the list to dramatically. Only changes you can make is adding wargear - units etc too the army. You get deduced points if you take something away or change an existing unit.

At the moment there are only 8 confirmed to be in this tournament so far and I'm not sure who they are, all I'm sure is that i need a 500 pt take all comers effective list for this.

Now at the moment i have... 6 firewarriors. So this tourney is just what i need to get my tau army started!

I want a pretty competitive mechanized list. What i have so-far is a measly attempt at a 500pt list. Yes, its rough, yes i threw it together in a few minutes. Yes, i want improvement.

Sa'cea 500pt tourney list

Shas'el - 97 pts
Missile pod, Plasma Rifle, Targeting array,  hardwired multi-tracker.

Crisis suit - 53 pts
Twin-linked missile pod, targeting array.

Firewarriors - 120pts
12 Fw's with pulse rifles

Fire warriors - 100 pts
10 Fw's with pulse rifles

Fire warriors - 100 pts
10 Fw's with pulse rifles

470 pts.

What i plan on doing is eventually buying all the fw's a devilfish, gaining two hammerheads (An ionhead maybe, depends on what other armies are in this). I dont want to add any kroot or vespid for personal fluff reasons.

I definitely will want more suits and probably piranhas later on, may even add stealth suits or a sniper drone team aswell. It all depends on how this goes.

As for the list, what will make it more competitive, cheese isn't really a problem, if i get that battleforce i can even out my tau army later on. also i have 30 pts to spend but i dont know what on. Im to paranoid that i may not want something later on down the road and if i change it il lose points.

C&C Greatly Appreciated
« Last Edit: March 25, 2007, 06:09:43 AM by .:Darkness:. »
“Why did I have to get the imperial guardsmen, you don’t even have any good weapons or features”
“I do so” I said defensively. “I’ve got my lasgun and my trusty bayonet”
“What a gun that will give the other contestants cancer in ten years, or at worst will make them squint. Then you have a blade that’s more suited to opening cans and to top it all off, your covered in cardboard for armour.”

Offline Derikari

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2007, 06:30:11 AM »
Quote
You get deduced points if you take something away or change an existing unit.

Change as in take stuff away being penalised and allowing additions or is any changed penalised?

Quote
Firewarriors - 120pts
12 Fw's with pulse rifles

Fire warriors - 100 pts
10 Fw's with pulse rifles

Fire warriors - 100 pts
10 Fw's with pulse rifles

How about making all the squads even sized and make them 4 x 8 Tau? With the extra 30 points you could give 3 squads Shas'uis for leadership but with the rules of this tourny it might not be the best option as the leadership boost does nothing in a transport.

Something different could be evening outt he squads by dumping 2 Fire Warriors from the larger squad and you would have 50 points. From that you could get a Crisis Suit in the Firestorm config (burst + missiles + multi). It is around the efficiency of a Fireknife suit against many things and is more point efficient. Add in cover and it is much better. Here is an article that goes into indepth specs of this config.

Offline .:Darkness:.

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2007, 01:50:51 AM »
To my nowledge the only penlty will come from removing a whole unit from the list, but it may be even as extreme as taking away say, a tranport or peice of wargear from a unit. Not sure.

Revised list with fireknife config;

Sa'cea 500pt tourny list

Shas'el - 97 pts
Missile pod, Plasma Rifle, Targeting array,  hard-wired multi-tracker.

Crisis suit - 53 pts
Twin-linked missile pod, targeting array.

Crisis suit - 50 pts
Burst cannon, Missile pod, Multi-tracker.

Firewarriors - 100pts
10 Fw's with pulse rifles

Fire warriors - 100 pts
10 Fw's with pulse rifles

Fire warriors - 100 pts
10 Fw's with pulse rifles

500 pts.

The problem i am seeing now is, will i really want the fireknife later? In the current list i am seeing a lack of anti-tank beyond av12.. i think. (dont have the codex on hand.)

That shouldnt be a problem in 500 pt games but it is a 'mini' tourney so you never know. Oh well always room for anti-tank later.

C&C please.

[EDIT: Fireknife REALLY means firestorm, my mistake ;)]
« Last Edit: March 26, 2007, 02:49:50 AM by .:Darkness:. »
“Why did I have to get the imperial guardsmen, you don’t even have any good weapons or features”
“I do so” I said defensively. “I’ve got my lasgun and my trusty bayonet”
“What a gun that will give the other contestants cancer in ten years, or at worst will make them squint. Then you have a blade that’s more suited to opening cans and to top it all off, your covered in cardboard for armour.”

Offline pepsi

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2007, 05:11:38 AM »
You know tau human auxiliaries would be awesome in small lists (6 pts each)

one  issue I see here is that if one squad is engaged your going to be down 33% of your troop firepower. If you are rushed with faster troops, your done for.

Nice work on the shas`el, but Im skeptical with both the missile pod and plasma rifle.

(i want to believe at best youll face transports, though there are some people who are armor bound. though regardless, youll have to field something costlier to get to 13-or higher)

This one is up to you. Personally id take the missile pod, and choose another weapon over the plasma rifle to maybe add 1-2 fw or add multricker and burst cannon to the other crisis suit.

the crisis suit with the twin linked missile pod, should just go to regular to save minimum pts (his BS is 4 atm so its really not a big deal/also the fact that you may face minimum tanks just wastes this) Id get him a multitracker to boost fire/ and use the points taken from the plasma rifle to get a burst cannon.

I imagine

Shas`el

missile pod, burst cannon, hardwired multi tracker

Crisis suit

missile pod, burst cannon, multitracker

Crisis suit

missile pod, burst cannon, multitracker

Firewarriors

10

Firewarriors

10

firewarriors

10

with free up points throw on a target lock so you can shoot two targets with the suits, youll still function well with the 10 man squads.



« Last Edit: March 26, 2007, 05:22:28 AM by pepsi »

Offline .:Darkness:.

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2007, 06:08:39 AM »
The problem is, will i want that later on? Its not about the smaller battles its about winning the larger ones when it counts. Yes winning the msaller ones will boost you up an extra 100 points above half of everyone BUT, tolling out the list for smaller games will leave me disadvantaged later on.

As for that reason i dont want silly guea'la in my list. I took the plamsa rifle on the shas'el for meq ensurance, sure missile pods will be good but if i can get him to jump into rapid fire range, unleash the salvo of death then jump out of rapid fire range then if much rather that then the burst cannon. if i go with the burst cannon then to use him effectivly he Has to get close to be effective where his current load-out he can still rip things apart from a distance if i dont feel sure enough to risk him getting closer.

Maybe i could add a paranha with a fusion blaster for the heavyier tank roll. Except i dont feel conifident in only having one paranha out there on his own. I most likley will throw a couple in later on once i win me some points.

Then again with the twin-linked missilepod, wouldnt he be better suited for firestorm aswell? hmm im no sure, atleast then the other suit wouldnt be up close on his own.

Thanks for the suggestion though.
“Why did I have to get the imperial guardsmen, you don’t even have any good weapons or features”
“I do so” I said defensively. “I’ve got my lasgun and my trusty bayonet”
“What a gun that will give the other contestants cancer in ten years, or at worst will make them squint. Then you have a blade that’s more suited to opening cans and to top it all off, your covered in cardboard for armour.”

Offline Derikari

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2007, 06:42:23 AM »
He will be the only one who needs to get within 18" to fire everything, so true he will be vulnerable in that respect. Then again, he doesn't need to share cover since he is the only one that close :D Remember, suits do JSJ and the burst cannon has an effective range of 24". The Deathrain suit is one of the better options to take on skimmers and is also one of your anti-light/med tank units. Making him into a Firestorm suit will reduce his efficiency in that but makes him a jack-of-all-trades like the Fireknife (it has numbers of shots to counter low ap). For the future point levels I'd stick with the configs you got, each suit can effectively counter most armies thrown against it.

And speaking about tanks... if you only go up 100 points per win and get penalised for taking stuff out, how will you get stuff like Hammerheads into this at higher point levels? Can you take one as a Devilfish for a squad then "upgrade" it? Otherwise your anti-tank options are limited to Broadsides (which you don't want), Pirhanas and suicidal monat suits. Then again if you can't take a tank, neither can they.

Offline pepsi

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2007, 03:36:53 PM »
 "i dont want silly guea'la in my list" :p you didnt just sass my auxiliaries did you?

in my use of them, they do the job they are meant to do. Rapid fire weapons, and decent range, markerlight.

I just hate whirlwinds when I use them :(
« Last Edit: March 26, 2007, 03:38:35 PM by pepsi »

Offline .:Darkness:.

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2007, 06:02:12 PM »
From what i've been told a win gets you 200pts. Now i think that is decent because any more and people may have to start buying more models to fill that point gap, and if each game is in a two week interval i dont tihnk i would be able to paint that much. 200 seems fitting and if you want a 200+ tank just miss out in puting somthing in for one game, clmaim the extra 100 for losing (Or 200 if you win) then you have 300-400 pts to spend. Then you go out and get your tank or other mean expencive unit.

Quote
"i dont want silly guea'la in my list" :p you didnt just sass my auxiliaries did you?

Yes, i did  ;). For fluff reasons though. i dont doubt their abilities, i just doubt i would want them.

But remember the event wont be for another couple of months, so this gives me plenty of time to get my 500pt army together and hopfully give it a play test (Against 'crons  :()
“Why did I have to get the imperial guardsmen, you don’t even have any good weapons or features”
“I do so” I said defensively. “I’ve got my lasgun and my trusty bayonet”
“What a gun that will give the other contestants cancer in ten years, or at worst will make them squint. Then you have a blade that’s more suited to opening cans and to top it all off, your covered in cardboard for armour.”

Offline lord_guru32

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2007, 06:15:18 PM »
If you would like a competitive, low point list that will adapt well into a large force then consider the following:

HQ:
Shas'el-89pts
Fusion Blaster
Missile Pod
Targeting Array
HW Multi-Tracker

Troops:
2x12 Firewarriors-410pts
2xDevilfish with decoy launchers

Total:499pts

Simply, effective, to the point. You lose some of your firepower versatility by dropping the crisis suits so heavy infantry could be a problem but at 500pts your S5 basic weapons and shas'el for emergencies should be enough to protect you from vehicles and monstrous creatures. You have 2 very sturdy vehicles for your points which should do a great job drawing fire, protecting your troops and giving your whole army the edge when it comes to mobility. So in total you have: enough high strength weaponry to handle the armour you will encounter at this level, enough mobility and basic troopers to handle hordes and hopefully MEQs('crons will be a struggle though imo)

When your allowed extra points your first step should be some missile pods and plasma rifles from crisis suits then either a broadside or more firewarriors(mounted or unmounted, your choice) depending on the enemy forces. Aslong as you can earn some early wins(which shouldnt be hard, mostly due to your devilfish) you should be easily able to expand your army in whatever direction you feel is neccesary.
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Offline pepsi

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2007, 06:20:20 PM »
I like that one.

and not alot of people would expect it.

Offline hey_yu

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2007, 11:14:19 PM »
Quote
The aim of the tournament is to be the first person to reach a 2500 or 2000 point army (Not sure which it is yet) Winner gets a battleforce of their choice  .

The catch is, that it has to be a new army not an existing army.

Cool.  This campaign idea sounds fun and sort of a win-win situation for the players and owner (IMO - mostly the owner though).

My approach would be to create your ideal 2000 or 2500PT army list.  Get advice from boards and other Tau gamers on some good ideas.  That way you have an idea of what you want to spend your money.  Otherwise you might buy models you later regret getting.  Then break down the list into 500PT, 700PT, etc, so you can plan what to buy next.

Also, as you play games and find certain units work or don't work for you I would consider re-evaluating your 2000/2500PT list and/or point break down.


Quote
Now at the moment i have... 6 firewarriors. So this tourney is just what i need to get my tau army started!

I want a pretty competitive mechanized list.

Since you have only 6 firewarriors.  A good start could be to get a Tau Battleforce.  In the US it retails for $90 US Dollars.  It includes:  a Devilfish with 2 Gun Drones, 12 Tau Warriors, XV8, 3 XV25, 12 Kroot, 4 Gun Drones.  A Devilfish ($35) + 12 Tau Firewarriors ($35) + XV8 ($20) = $90.  Might as well get the Battleforce for the same price and get some extra stuff too.
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Offline .:Darkness:.

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2007, 01:48:26 AM »
The battleforce may be a good idea but its not in the spirit of the competition. You are ment to play your game, collect your point winnings then go out, buy what you want, paint it up, then play your next game. Plus there are alot of models in the battleforce that i dont want or like. Such as kroot, they dont seem to fit sa'cea fluff to me.

As for making a 2000-2500 pt army then breaking it down, i dont see it as tacticly sound. The way i see it, if i outfit my army for 2000 pts, i will only play maybe one or two 2000 pt games where as i will play considerable more in the lower point region. In my experience large armies widdled down to fit smaller armies are usually less effective this may not be a good choice. But then again the majority of te battle will be from 750 - 1500 pts.

What i am planning on doing is once i win - lose the battle il work out what i want to get, post up a new list in this thread and get some C&C. once im happy with what i have il go out and buy / paint the modle(s).

As lord stated out that list. I like it, should be pretty good. Im not sure which list to go with now.
“Why did I have to get the imperial guardsmen, you don’t even have any good weapons or features”
“I do so” I said defensively. “I’ve got my lasgun and my trusty bayonet”
“What a gun that will give the other contestants cancer in ten years, or at worst will make them squint. Then you have a blade that’s more suited to opening cans and to top it all off, your covered in cardboard for armour.”

Offline pepsi

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2007, 04:45:52 AM »
So as you win you need to buy more stuff?

and if you reach 2000 pts, the owner gets how much, before the battleforce is the winners?

personally id screw them by taking alot of chaos upgrades (stick it to the man!) I hate when you realize their sales pitch.

We had one where they were trying to get people to paint their armies, so they offered a deal, buy an hq, two troops 2 vehicles, a codex and a rule book, and you get 20% off a megaforce. (Asks, whats the point?)

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2007, 05:05:34 AM »
cool concept...

heres a list for you to consider, remembering that you are allowed to add to units, but not take away:

shas'el - a set up under 90pts.
perhaps fireknife, whatever tickles your fancy for later i guess. but use teh remaining points for this guy.

8 fire warriors with rifles = 80
devilfish, multi-tracker (or decoy either with or without arrays) = 90

8 fire warriors with rifles = 80
devilfish, multi-tracker (or decoy either with or without arrays) = 90

piranha, fusion gun, targeting array = 70


now, the best thing i can say to you is to start by writing your final list... everything you want to have in it. this will help you decide what you want early on. take a look through the big list of tau army lists for some mechanised ideas. i guess you dont need to have it written out in stone, but a clear idea will give you focus and will allow you to break things up into chunks for you to aim for.


Offline Derikari

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2007, 05:16:22 AM »
We had one where they were trying to get people to paint their armies, so they offered a deal, buy an hq, two troops 2 vehicles, a codex and a rule book, and you get 20% off a megaforce. (Asks, whats the point?)

I'd personally love that. I need to get all of that anyways (yes, even the codex. Friend is lending it to me for a few months so I can focus on getting a decent army first) so it is win/win for me.

I think oink may have made the perfect base for a mech army. Explain to me how exactly would a normal all comer 500 point army deal effectively with 3 skimmers? But if you can't change wargear it will be very restrictive on your commander.

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2007, 05:53:36 AM »
Ah yes, about the wargear thing... you COULD do that... but then you would end up loseing and not getting the battleforce.

I like your list oink. Im going to type one up now.

Shas'el - 87 pts
Missile pod, Plasma Rifle,  multi-tracker.

8 fire warriors with rifles = 80
devilfish, multi-tracker (or decoy either with or without arrays) = 90

8 fire warriors with rifles = 80
devilfish, multi-tracker (or decoy either with or without arrays) = 90

piranha, fusion gun, targeting array = 70

497 pts.

Question is, would this list handle as effectivley as the previous one? the earlier version didnt have fish's but it had 2 extra suits. Plus it didnt rely on one suit for light mid tank busting. At this moment i still think the earlier list is better as it has abit more transport - skimmer insurance and more firepower all up. Question is, would it be worth sacrificing firepower for abit of mobility?
“Why did I have to get the imperial guardsmen, you don’t even have any good weapons or features”
“I do so” I said defensively. “I’ve got my lasgun and my trusty bayonet”
“What a gun that will give the other contestants cancer in ten years, or at worst will make them squint. Then you have a blade that’s more suited to opening cans and to top it all off, your covered in cardboard for armour.”

Offline Derikari

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2007, 06:08:36 AM »
But now your wealth of str 5 shots is more viable for tank hunting. The Devilfishes have the speed to zoom around armour, which shouldn't be as heavy as this, and penetrate AV10. If you move less than 6", you can FoF the tank. Personally I think that your anti-tank options has opened up as now every weapon is viable because of the new speed.

Quote
Question is, would it be worth sacrificing firepower for abit of mobility?

But that is exactly what a mech army does. To make up for it you can move your firepower and concentrate it on localised points and completely devistate entire flanks in a single go. You could get 3 Hammerheads because they are speedy, I can get 9 Broadsides because they are killy. Which is better? Depends.

Offline pepsi

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2007, 06:45:44 AM »
theory is if you can hit units for more points then they hit you, it works. (tournament wise anyways)

take advantage of it to get the extra points to kit out everything else.

(the suits earlier were ok, but I believe I mentioned that if you were outrun your done for. suits arent that tough if you can get one in hand to hand with something decent. (ponders about chaos players with speed, lords can be geared specifically for the cheap)

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2007, 07:17:19 AM »
I was always planning on tooling everything to be able to move 12"+ every turn, but at the lower point cost i was more thinking about getting the base of the fw's in there and add the fish's later. But i can see how the fish's would really help early on.

I think il go with the fishy list as it will work well early on and it would be easier to add to later on. in earlier list i already had filled two elite slots and risk having to get a point deduction later on if i didnt want them.
“Why did I have to get the imperial guardsmen, you don’t even have any good weapons or features”
“I do so” I said defensively. “I’ve got my lasgun and my trusty bayonet”
“What a gun that will give the other contestants cancer in ten years, or at worst will make them squint. Then you have a blade that’s more suited to opening cans and to top it all off, your covered in cardboard for armour.”

Offline Derikari

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Re: 500pt > tourny list (On-going Project)
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2007, 07:42:22 AM »
You should talk to the manager and find out how strict the rules on wargear really is, otherwise simple weapon swaps will solve many of your problems. Heck, you could go as far as bashing that rule by tailoring your suits for each round... but that wouldn't be fun and would promptly "influence" a rule revision. You shouldn't glue down the weapons anyways, having something adhesive holding it in place is much better as it gives you the oppetunity to change the config whenever you feel like it.

 


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