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The Armies of 40k => Imperial Forces => Topic started by: The GrimSqueaker on September 25, 2017, 12:41:21 PM

Title: New Codex
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on September 25, 2017, 12:41:21 PM
With the new Guard codex shortly arriving we're getting inside looks at what's coming. Beginning with the Catachans.

Regimental Focus: Catachan – Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/25/regimental-focus-catachan-sep25gw-homepage-post-2/)
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 25, 2017, 01:03:27 PM
With the new Guard codex shortly arriving we're getting inside looks at what's coming. Beginning with the Catachans.

Regimental Focus: Catachan – Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/25/regimental-focus-catachan-sep25gw-homepage-post-2/)

Whoever it is that said the "preferred unit" of the Catachan Jungle Fighters should be the Deathstrike Missile needs to be slapped upside the head. I would guess something like Hellhounds would be a better pick, but whatever.

They look pretty nasty, gotta say. The strength boost is particularly interesting. Charging with Guardsmen might actually work.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Cavalier on September 25, 2017, 01:06:13 PM
WOW! This sounds so awesome... the improved strength and leadership are insane! I never thought they'd do it, but its so suiting. I absolutley love this stuff. Fantastic updates... the improvement to blast attacks is crazy as well. Such a nice buff
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 25, 2017, 01:08:50 PM
... the improvement to blast attacks is crazy as well. Such a nice buff

I find the blast re-roll thing...weird. Like, what is the reasoning, there? A bunch of jungle fighters, what--over-pack their mortars? Their big muscles let them load bigger guns?

I don't get it. I don't get how the Catachans would have more powerful vehicles than anybody else. You'd think the lack of open terrain on their homeworld would limit them to things like Taurox, Chimera, and Sentinels and stuff. 
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Cavalier on September 25, 2017, 01:15:23 PM
(https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/predator-ol-painless-gif.gif?w=650)
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on September 25, 2017, 03:04:01 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/g4obSNl.jpg)
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: magenb on September 25, 2017, 05:46:55 PM
I don't get it. I don't get how the Catachans would have more powerful vehicles than anybody else. You'd think the lack of open terrain on their homeworld would limit them to things like Taurox, Chimera, and Sentinels and stuff.

because GW has gone back to pushing models.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run) on September 25, 2017, 06:14:43 PM
Looks like conscript spam may be addressed too!

Quote
Conscripts, for example, have been changed to better reflect their inferior discipline compared to professional soldiers.

Daemon Engines, a battlefield in a box and a new codex – Warhammer (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/24/daemon-engines-a-battlefield-in-a-box-and-a-new-codex/)
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on September 25, 2017, 07:40:13 PM

because GW has gone back to pushing models.

Well, that is their job. To sell models.


Catachans are pretty well trained and experienced soldiers. Could represent well trained tank crew. They do operate armoured vehicles, large explosions helps clear enemy entrenched in the woods.


I'm curious to see which regiment gets the ubiquitous '-1 to shoot at +12"' trait every book gets, probably the Tallarn.


Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on September 25, 2017, 08:20:52 PM
Catachans are pretty well trained and experienced soldiers. Could represent well trained tank crew. They do operate armoured vehicles, large explosions helps clear enemy entrenched in the woods.

True for many of the Guard regiments. What you're missing is why *them* in particular. The jungle is not even close to a good environment for armoured vehicles for the obvious reasons. Catachans don't need big booms in an environment full of naturally available locally sourced shrapnel. It feels off that these are bonuses for the jungle guys.

I'm not even going to try and explain their fondness for theatre grade ballistic missile launchers.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 25, 2017, 08:31:43 PM
I would have guessed that the *Catachans* would have been the -1 to hit guys. Or some kind of cover bonus or something.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on September 25, 2017, 08:44:31 PM
I would have guessed that the *Catachans* would have been the -1 to hit guys. Or some kind of cover bonus or something.

I'd say that's definitely more the Tallerans wheel house. The Desert raiders were all about infiltration and sneaky stuff like that.

The +1 strength for the Jungle Fighters fits really nicely. I could see them as the 'fall back and charge' sort of dudes too.

Traps and such would be done as stratagems.

Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on September 25, 2017, 08:59:26 PM
We already can see the trap stratagem. Not bad at all. Yay for more mortal wounds being thrown around.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Calamity on September 26, 2017, 02:40:16 AM
The trap stratagem, the strength boost (why didn't I ever think of that!?!)  and their unique order all look characterful and useful.  With a priest and iron hand leading them, assault IG might be tje tiniest bit viable  The leadership boost and the tank thing was unexpected though.  Not what I would have imagined the catachans getting.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on September 26, 2017, 11:40:03 AM
Behold the Mordians
Regiment Focus: Mordian – Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/26/regiment-focus-mordian-sep26gw-homepage-post-2/)

Cheaper Leman Russes for everyone as well and Grinding Advance which sounds a little dodgy really. You may need to zoom in a tad but take a close look at Firing Squad. Rapid fire weapons able to snipe characters.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Grand Master Lomandalis on September 26, 2017, 12:20:45 PM
There is one regiment that has always had me interested in playing Guard, and that is the Mordian Iron Guard.  What has kept me away, however, is the fact that they are all pewter models.

That being said, holy crap!  Those Mordians are looking bad ass from the rules.  Especially since that stratagem will effectively allow a tank to Overwatch on 4's!
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 26, 2017, 06:31:47 PM
HOLY CRAP GRINDING ADVANCE!

That is *such* a game-changer for the Russ. Pretty much every brand of Russ is useable thanks to that rule (well, except the Eradicator--sorry, little guy).

I get to fire a punisher gatling cannon *twice* now? That's Yhwh-condemneded ridiculous. Oh, how the orks shall howl (before being reduced to fleshy green ribbons).

Also, my favorite quote about the Mordians so far (seen on another site):

Quote
Well, time to break out the square bases again. Time is a flat circle.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on September 27, 2017, 12:02:42 PM
Regiment Focus: Vostroya – Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/27/regiment-focus-vostroyan-sep27gw-homepage-post-2/)

Vostoya! Gesundheit.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 27, 2017, 12:36:31 PM
Regiment Focus: Vostroya – Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/27/regiment-focus-vostroyan-sep27gw-homepage-post-2/)

Vostoya! Gesundheit.

Well that's...disappointing. A range bump? Big freaking deal--as though the Guard has ever had a problem outranging its enemies. Nice for lasguns, I guess.

I would also say "nice for plasma," but the whole point of taking plasma guns is to drop your dirt-cheap squad of plasma dudes in something's face and rapid fire like a madman. An extra 3" of rapid fire range isn't all that wonderful and nobody wants to sit back and plink away with mediocre BS plasma at long range. 

Will this transfer to the Leman Russ? Having a slightly longer ranged Punisher Cannon does sound nice.

Overall, the last two have been better. It would be just my luck to wind up playing all the least optimal factions, just by dumb freaking luck. I bet the T'au Bork'an sept will get rules that allow them to throw two photon grenades instead of one.

I will say that "repel the enemy" sounds cool on paper. Much like the pistol rule, though, I kinda doubt it will come up. There's hardly ever an instance where falling back and getting a Get Back in the Fight wouldn't be a better idea. 
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on September 27, 2017, 12:41:09 PM
Yeah, this one is a little wah wah wah compared to the last two. We do get a look at the new conscripts tomorrow which may help the general feeling.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on September 27, 2017, 01:03:42 PM
I like the order a lot, the extra range is certainly something you need to build your army around. Longer range for rapid fire is nice. Extra range on all heavy weapons is neat too. 30" demolisher cannons would be great, as 24" is sometimes a bit too short, especially now that you can drive half speed and shoot twice.

Also, 30" multi-melta sponsons with 15" half range will be super nice.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 27, 2017, 01:39:05 PM
Good point on the Demolisher Cannons. Are we sure it applies to tanks, too, though?

(I can't remember if Tanks have Regiment keywords or not)
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on September 27, 2017, 01:39:57 PM
It does apply. They mention sentinels in the article getting the boost. Pretty sure they have the keyword too.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Calamity on September 27, 2017, 01:46:05 PM
The extra range is nice, but no carapace type ability?  :-\
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 27, 2017, 01:56:44 PM
It does apply. They mention sentinels in the article getting the boost. Pretty sure they have the keyword too.

Well, between boosted range and Grinding Advance, I gotta say the Demolisher is looking pretty good, now.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on September 27, 2017, 02:05:54 PM
30" ranged punisher cannons pumping out 40 shots a turn is pretty nice too. 
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 27, 2017, 02:23:34 PM
30" ranged punisher cannons pumping out 40 shots a turn is pretty nice too.

I think "horrifying" is the word. Between that and Defensive Gunners? Wow.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on September 27, 2017, 03:16:02 PM
Do any guard heros give re-roll to hit auras? Even re-rolling 1's would be nice with that tank.  Or, just add in guilliman :D
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 27, 2017, 09:01:39 PM
A tank commander can do it. Take two--the commander with boosted BS and the other one who will get the order.

Nasty.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: magenb on September 28, 2017, 12:10:32 AM
30" is within deployment reach for a number of deployment types, here take a 120 tank shots turn 1... and here's an ungodly number of conscripts having a picnic around the tanks...

hmmm I dont know whats going to be more fun, lining up aginst that or stuffing bamboo under my finger nails...
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 28, 2017, 06:34:04 AM
Dude, you don't *have* to deploy on the line, you know. You'll usually be going first, too.

I'm interested to see how they nerf conscripts. It's coming today.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Calamity on September 28, 2017, 08:44:07 AM
I'd just chuck conscripts straight into the bin.  :P
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on September 28, 2017, 09:52:12 AM
I think they have a place. But need some changes.

30" is within deployment reach for a number of deployment types, here take a 120 tank shots turn 1... and here's an ungodly number of conscripts having a picnic around the tanks...

hmmm I dont know whats going to be more fun, lining up aginst that or stuffing bamboo under my finger nails...


This is also why tables should have line of sight blocking terrain on it, so you're not just fighting over a golf course.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on September 28, 2017, 11:30:04 AM
Regiment Focus: Valhalla – Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/28/regiment-focus-valhallans-sep28gw-homepage-post-2/)

Valhalla! Witness me.

Conscripts - more limited unit sizes and randomness for accepting orders.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Calamity on September 28, 2017, 11:33:51 AM
Love the traits.  So fluffy!

Nice change to conscripts too.  Works for me.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Stormbane on September 28, 2017, 11:38:13 AM
I think those changes to conscripts are going to make an awful lot of people very happy.*

It's quite nice to see GW taking note of what the community thinks is very, very wrong with the Indexes and doing something about it.

I'm not sure how the Tank buff would work though...surely damage is damage is damage? A nice rule though to keep the Valhallan tanks rumbling.




*Looking at the next 2 posts. I was clearly wrong. Personally, I think that the 4+ orders will reduce their effectiveness greatly...or at least to the point whereby the owner can't necessarily trust them. Also, as far as bubble wrap; if there is a change to the number of units you can take, or to how many units a commissar can affect, there will be a big difference. Certainly removing enough of the unit so that it is no longer in any way effective will be a lot easier.

The recycling of units is a double edged sword. Yes, 2 CPs for a 30 strong unit seems cheap, but it will likely later in the battle by which time you have had the opportunity to snipe away a few of the buffing characters, so their usefulness diminishes as time goes on.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on September 28, 2017, 01:10:45 PM
The changes to conscripts doesn't really change anything. I hope they go up in price, or are not as well effected by Commissars.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Cavalier on September 28, 2017, 01:22:04 PM
First impression Im not really encouraged at all in regards to the Conscripts thing. Reducing the number you can take per squad doesnt do much as most IG players running them will just continue to spam them. Orders on a 4+, while better than automatic, is still very reliable... and then bringing them back at the cost of only 2 CP's totally counter acts the nerfs put in place. Especially considering those player spamming them typically have around 12 CP's.

The whole issue is this unshiftable blob of ultra cheap bodies that is immune to Morale bubble wrapping everything for the entire game. This is made almost WORSE by "Send in the Next Wave".

Unless the price jumps up dramatically per Conscript I dont see things getting better. The situation could be potentially worse. I've played against players bringing 150-200 seven or 8 times and these changes will still discourage me from wanting to play against those players.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Aurics Pride on September 28, 2017, 02:55:00 PM
I don't really think that the changes to the conscripts will have a huge amount of effect unless they go and drop a rule stating that you can only have one conscript unit per platoon....
I'm not overly worried about the "Send in the next wave" though, realistically since you are doing it at the end of the movement phase and you are limited to within 6" of the board edge the only things that they are realistically going to be bubble wrapping on the turn they come in is characters as most of their tanks are too big for them to get infront of!
Chaos have the same strategem for Cultists but they are able to come in from opponents board edges and to be honest I've not really seen it used much and even then it doesn't seem to be all that effective, not for 2 CPs anyway.
Will be interesting to see when the codex does actually drop, certainly looking like the Imperial Guard will be retaining their ranking within the top tier.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on September 28, 2017, 03:25:25 PM
"Send in the next wave" probably wont see much play, as you'll need to ser aside reinforcement points to get use out of it.

The bubble wrap game will still be strong. Still hoping to see artillery and scions to go up in price.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 28, 2017, 04:41:08 PM
Shooting into combat? About time that showed up.

I'd expect orks/nids to get something similar.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: magenb on September 28, 2017, 07:59:58 PM
Dude, you don't *have* to deploy on the line, you know. You'll usually be going first, too.

Have a flip through the open war pack, most of them have a no mans land of less than 18".

Even if you can deploy your entire army out of range, you are going to have to move, so your just delaying the inevitable.

I don't really like games where its just seeing who can drop the nuke first.

T1 wipe is back with a vengeance in 8th, which is why everyone is reaching for LOS blocking terrain, but lets be honest, that really only blunts the attack, unless you are fighting over Trumps wall, you can still lose 20%+ of any army before its moved. Lots of LOS blocking also means less cover on the table, which again make stuff more fragile.

Just wish GW would stop handing out nukes like lollypops. Models with good rules will still sell, you don't need to go over the top. The more balanced the game is, the more fun it is, the more people will play it, the more models get sold especially over the long term. The more OP you go, the less people enjoy it, the less people play it, long term less models get sold.


Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 28, 2017, 09:36:39 PM
Have a flip through the open war pack, most of them have a no mans land of less than 18".

Even if you can deploy your entire army out of range, you are going to have to move, so your just delaying the inevitable.

We could sit here and talk deployment tactics, but I really have to ask how you dealt with long-range shooty armies in any other edition, because nothing has changed to make life harder for assaulty armies really at all.

Fast assaulty armies now usually get first turn, can make first turn assaults, can assault after deepstrike, and are blessed with the edition with the absolute most durable, assault-friendly transports in the history of the game (which can contain more than one unit). If an extra 6" on a Demolisher Cannon is what knocks you out of the running, I'm not sure what I can say. 

Quote
I don't really like games where its just seeing who can drop the nuke first.

When hasn't this been the case, exactly? 40K has always been about positioning your forces to make a killing blow. 8th Edition has made it so that such killing blows occur about a turn earlier than before, yes, and yeah, alpha strike is a concern. But it has always always been a concern. Do you remember the Leafblower? The Rhino Rush? Thunderwolf shenanigans? The Lysander Wing? Farsight Bomb?

And, if I may say so, it seems odd that a thread about the Imperial Guard has you freaking out about alpha strike, considering that, by the current iteration of the rules, Imperial Guard armies pretty much never, ever go first. You just alpha strike them before they beta strike you (and yeah, Conscripts suck--no argument there). Get up in their face. Snipe their officers.

So far, I haven't seen anywhere close to as many abusive builds in this edition than in almost any other edition I've played (and I've played since 2nd). There's the stupid Imperial Assassin Screen, Conscript Blobs, and stupid Roboute Guilliman with his Imperial Soup, but past that?

This edition works just fine. It has some kinks, but for the first time (ever) GW is actively attempting to address them. I think, overall, elite armies got kicked in the teeth and hordes are on top right now, but I don't see that as a death knell to the game by any means.   
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on September 29, 2017, 08:05:28 AM
I'm going to agree with Wydrr. Nothing is different then previous editions, and really way more easy to deal with. Also, the terrain on your table should block line of sight. If none of your terrain is line of sight blocking, then of course shooting focused armies are going to do well.

Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on September 29, 2017, 11:35:00 AM
Regimental Focus: Armageddon – Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/29/regimental-focus-armageddon-sep29gw-homepage-post-2/)

Steel Legion hiding under a bullamphetamine parrot name.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 29, 2017, 12:23:59 PM
Regimental Focus: Armageddon – Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/29/regimental-focus-armageddon-sep29gw-homepage-post-2/)

Steel Legion hiding under a bullamphetamine parrot name.

Very solid entry. They look like fun and not at all overpowered or underpowered.

I do think just about everybody is going to take Kurov's Aquila, though.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on September 29, 2017, 01:36:15 PM
Yeah, that does look like a handy relic to have.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Calamity on September 29, 2017, 01:46:29 PM
Yeah I'd have it.  More cps is always useful. I wonder if the other relics of old like the tactical auto-reliquary of Tyberius will get a look in?
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on September 29, 2017, 02:47:53 PM
From looking through the Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine codex, most of the old relics seem to be back in a similar way to how they were before (plus tons more). Wouldn't be surprised to see old favourites back. Although, I never saw anyone take any relics for their guard in 7th edition, so I don't even know any.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 29, 2017, 07:02:31 PM
From looking through the Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine codex, most of the old relics seem to be back in a similar way to how they were before (plus tons more). Wouldn't be surprised to see old favourites back. Although, I never saw anyone take any relics for their guard in 7th edition, so I don't even know any.

Kurov's Aquila was one of them. It let people re-roll 1s in a bubble. There was also a handy swagger stick that made almost every order automatic--great with the Artillery Formation.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Stormbane on September 30, 2017, 04:16:23 AM
Regimental Focus: Armageddon – Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/29/regimental-focus-armageddon-sep29gw-homepage-post-2/)

Steel Legion hiding under a bullamphetamine parrot name.

Very solid entry. They look like fun and not at all overpowered or underpowered.

I do think just about everybody is going to take Kurov's Aquila, though.

It could lead to quite a ridiculous game tbh. Granted, it would take the craziest rolling ever, but if 2 IG armies face off, both with Kurov's Aquila...well, you could get a game with an infinite amount of CPs.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: magenb on September 30, 2017, 08:54:01 AM
And, if I may say so, it seems odd that a thread about the Imperial Guard has you freaking out about alpha strike,

Not worried by just IG armies, its the trend that is happening in the codex releases. The game wasn't suffering from NOT having a tanks that could drop 40 shots at 30". The games wasn't suffer from a tough unit of infantry throwing out 10D6+ shots with mortal wounds, etc, etc.



Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on September 30, 2017, 09:32:49 AM
Leman russes are still not amazing. The 40 shots still only bs4 and s5. Also heavily restricts mobility.

I'm not too worried about them, they needed the boost.  We also don't know points changes yet. Guard needed better internal balance, this all helps towards that.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 30, 2017, 11:14:49 AM
Leman russes are still not amazing. The 40 shots still only bs4 and s5. Also heavily restricts mobility.

This (though mobility has *never* been the LRBT's strong suit). I think they're quite powerful in their niche now (light infantry won't be getting too close to *that*), but they ought to be. And honestly, every single other LR variant needs this boost to be even worth taking. Hell, the Eradicator *still* sucks bigtime. 

Quote
I'm not too worried about them, they needed the boost.  We also don't know points changes yet. Guard needed better internal balance, this all helps towards that.

According to GW, the Russes are getting a "slight" point decrease across the board. I'm reading this as 10 points or so, but I could be wrong. We could see the cost of specific turret weapons change, too. I'd expect a slight discount to everything and probably a slight boost to the Punisher Cannon, but who knows?

 
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Grand Master Lomandalis on September 30, 2017, 11:43:17 AM
Hell, the Eradicator *still* sucks bigtime. 
Eradicator is the Autocannon variant, correct?  I could see them doing there what they did with the Predator and giving it it's own stat line of improved damage or something.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on September 30, 2017, 12:16:32 PM
No, That's the exterminator. The eradicator has the eradicator nova cannon. It's the one that ignores cover. Not that bad, but not too exciting either. It's basically a weaker battle cannon with less range.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 30, 2017, 01:27:49 PM
No, That's the exterminator. The eradicator has the eradicator nova cannon. It's the one that ignores cover. Not that bad, but not too exciting either. It's basically a weaker battle cannon with less range.

It also costs *more* than the battlecannon, both in relative and absolute terms. So, half the range, 75% the strength, and a few points more all so you can *occasionally* score an extra point of AP.

Garbage.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Calamity on September 30, 2017, 02:55:16 PM
I don't think the eradicator has ever been a viable choice.  Not when compared to the other Russ variants.  Plus the hellhound used to do its job a lot better too.

They should have bumped its range up to 48" and increased its attacks, even at the cost of reducing its strength.  Turn it into a proper infantry killer.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 30, 2017, 02:59:08 PM
So the regimental doctrines for Cadia, Tallarn, and the Tempestus just leaked. I'll let you guys track them down--look in the usual spots--but I will say this: Tallarns are basically Eldar now (plugs ears for expected Eldar howling), Tempestus got a good bit better, and Cadians are freaking ridiculous.

You thought guard gunlines were bad before? Three words: Army. Wide. Rerolls.   

I don't think the eradicator has ever been a viable choice.  Not when compared to the other Russ variants.  Plus the hellhound used to do its job a lot better too.

They should have bumped its range up to 48" and increased its attacks, even at the cost of reducing its strength.  Turn it into a proper infantry killer.

The Eradicator was fairly decent against footdar, Static Tau, and enemy IG--basically anybody who fielded a lot of infantry and needed cover to survive. Now it isn't even any good at that, even *with* Grinding Advance. 
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on September 30, 2017, 03:03:25 PM
So the regimental doctrines for Cadia, Tallarn, and the Tempestus just leaked. I'll let you guys track them down--look in the usual spots--but I will say this: Tallarns are basically Eldar now (plugs ears for expected Eldar howling), Tempestus got a good bit better, and Cadians are freaking ridiculous.

Oh, I'm sure everyone will respond with the polite, well thought out, and restrained manner we're used to when it comes to new codex responses. Famous across all the lands for not flying off the handle when confronted with someone else doing things better or even merely differently. Famous.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 30, 2017, 03:13:13 PM
Oh, I'm sure everyone will respond with the polite, well thought out, and restrained manner we're used to when it comes to new codex responses. Famous across all the lands for not flying off the handle when confronted with someone else doing things better or even merely differently. Famous.

Nobody will even be playing Tallarn, which is the funny part. We're going to have to go through the whole "but now the Eldar aren't special" complaint (my God, how many times...) for an army that nobody except a few collectors will have or even want.

On the other hand, everybody should be complaining about Cadia. That's just wildly obnoxious. "But they can't move if they want..."

Guys, they're the guard. Moving is not now, nor ever has been, a priority. This amphetamine parrot is going to be abused like nothing we've seen since the Leafblower.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on September 30, 2017, 04:21:43 PM
I've always had a wet spot for the Tallarn just due to the Desert Rats and Long Range Desert Group. Looks like they're heading more to the LRDG than the DR. Not a flame to my beloved and long forgotten Praetorians though.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on September 30, 2017, 04:25:54 PM
I've always had a wet spot for the Tallarn just due to the Desert Rats and Long Range Desert Group. Looks like they're heading more to the LRDG than the DR. Not a flame to my beloved and long forgotten Praetorians though.

Yeah, that is a shame about the Praetorians. They're a pretty easy swap with the Mordians, though.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Calamity on September 30, 2017, 04:32:41 PM
I still can't decide what regiment doctrine wise I'll be going with, but I'm sure I'll be trying to make my own models. 

What are gw going to do about the models?  It's cool that all the old regiments are back (it really is).  But we need to be able to buy them right?  Could OOP metal models be brought back into production?  And will we ever get updated plastics?


Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on September 30, 2017, 04:33:49 PM
Yeah, that is a shame about the Praetorians. They're a pretty easy swap with the Mordians, though.


(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi103.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm158%2FSouthern_Badger%2Faccuse_zpsl6n8lbns.jpg&hash=d7bd27a3bfe18850dd99f1da2332c4530f6473c2)

HOW DARE YOU. Nothing at all the same. Completely and utterly different as you can tell from their HATS!

(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi103.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm158%2FSouthern_Badger%2Fpearls_zpsjrixumd3.jpg&hash=c91d928dad261c11f2013946c4fb103bee8693f7)
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Grand Master Lomandalis on September 30, 2017, 07:51:34 PM
No, That's the exterminator. The eradicator has the eradicator nova cannon. It's the one that ignores cover. Not that bad, but not too exciting either. It's basically a weaker battle cannon with less range.
Huh... maybe that explains why I've never heard of it.  It's completely beslubbering useless...
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Aurics Pride on October 1, 2017, 03:22:55 AM
Wow, just been catching up on some of the leaks. It's not often that I go to other forums but I've just been looking through DakkaDakka and having to wade through a lot of salt!
Guard are going to be hideously strong in the first couple of turns of the game which to be honest worries me slightly with how 8th edition very much favours going first etc.
I definitely think that when I am facing Guard I will be using small high firepower armies in a hope to go first and do enough damage before they can get rolling.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Cavalier on October 2, 2017, 08:03:35 AM
Yeah from where I sit, certain of these combos make IG Veterans look far superior to anything Marines can do just in terms of maneuvering which just seems really off to me. Sniping out characters, full BS overwatch, hit and running into their transports, outflank galore, consolidating units and the list goes on.

This is the kind of stuff I'd expect Vanguard Veterans, Sternguard, Primaris Marines or certain Aspect Warriors to pull off. Super elite commando moves (as far as the tabletop game is concerned). To me they went way to far.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on October 4, 2017, 11:58:08 AM
More on conscripts from a very, very serious point of view.
The Complete Guide to Conscripts – The Regimental Standard (https://regimental-standard.com/2017/10/04/the-complete-guide-to-conscripts/)
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lorizael on October 4, 2017, 07:21:11 PM
What are gw going to do about the models?  It's cool that all the old regiments are back (it really is).  But we need to be able to buy them right?  Could OOP metal models be brought back into production?  And will we ever get updated plastics?

Er, you just use the plastic guard models and pick a set of regiment rules to use.

Nobody will even be playing Tallarn, which is the funny part. We're going to have to go through the whole "but now the Eldar aren't special" complaint (my God, how many times...) for an army that nobody except a few collectors will have or even want.

I'm going to be using Tallarn. I have an armoured company tithed from Baal; all rad deserts and stuff, so Tallarn fits my army background well. :)

Guys, they're the guard. Moving is not now, nor ever has been, a priority. This amphetamine parrot is going to be abused like nothing we've seen since the Leafblower.

Have fun claiming all of those objectives while standing still.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Wyddr on October 4, 2017, 09:09:57 PM
Have fun claiming all of those objectives while standing still.

Not that hard to claim objectives *after* everything is dead.

The Cadia regimental doctrine is obscenely good and you must, must realize this. It granted an army-wide ability hitherto only available from character auras or special one-off abilities--one that can be stacked with orders to become even better--and the only thing they have to give up is the thing that most of the units who benefit from it wouldn't be doing anyway. People have every right to howl about it, because it's ridiculous.

Er, you just use the plastic guard models and pick a set of regiment rules to use.


Lame. I really hope it isn't just left at this. There are enough Vostroyan and Catachan models out there to make a reasonable army, but none of the other regiments have a big enough line. They all deserve expansions. Even just heavy and special weapons kits and a command squad would probably be enough.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on October 4, 2017, 10:41:25 PM
Well, with people running any colour of marine as any chapter, folks who want the best 'bang for the buck', will not be too concerned by what their models look like.

Hobbyists will for sure be keen to theme their army on a certain regiment (like always), but for tournament play, I can't see that happening.

But, we'll see. It'd be nice to be rewarded for putting the effort in. I do like the opportunity the traits do allow for building your own custom regiments, and building a cool army around a certain set of traits.

Also, once all the armies have their own books with their own 'traits', then things will be on an even footing. For example, Marines and Chaos each have a chapter/legion which gives their opponents a -1 to hit modifier beyond 12". Shooting twice (or whatever), doesn't help as much if you're not moving closer and then always hitting on 5's (or worse).

People's terrain should also not allow clear line of fire across the whole table.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lorizael on October 5, 2017, 07:09:55 AM
Marines are a bit different. There are less Chapters and background is pretty chapter-specific. Using your home-made successor chapter as Imperial Fists is great, using your painted Ultramarines as Imperial Fists is lame...

Bit different with the Militarum though, the "Cadian" models wear the most commonly used armour and uniform in the Guard. And there are hundreds of thousands of different regiments in the galaxy. Most of them using Cadian pattern armour, and chances are a lot of them will have similar combat doctrines.

Yeah, Cadian rules are pretty good. I'll deal with it though. It's just a game, and I have plenty of armies that really won't care how good the Cadians are at shooting.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on October 5, 2017, 09:02:05 AM

Yeah, Cadian rules are pretty good. I'll deal with it though. It's just a game, and I have plenty of armies that really won't care how good the Cadians are at shooting.

Same, my Harlequins will be charging Turn 1 anyway, so there wont be much of a shooting phase as it is lol.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Guildmage Arcas on October 5, 2017, 01:29:05 PM
Well maybe my Tallarns will come out of retirement for some full speed vehicle antics if the rumours are true!

Same, my Harlequins will be charging Turn 1 anyway, so there wont be much of a shooting phase as it is lol.

Just as long as the don't ignore the morale phase, fall back and shoot you in the face... :P

Yes there are ways around it but out of the doctines going it seems pretty much 'the best' instead of having any flavour to it.

Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Partninja on October 5, 2017, 10:01:03 PM
The increase in points to special weapons messes up my new Scions army a bit. Quite a few "wasted" models I'll need to drop to make up the points for the more expensive Taurox and special weapons. I just finished assembling them..
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on October 5, 2017, 10:07:53 PM
It's good though. Scions were boarderline broken until now. They were far too cheap for what they could do.



Just as long as the don't ignore the morale phase, fall back and shoot you in the face... :P

Yes there are ways around it but out of the doctines going it seems pretty much 'the best' instead of having any flavour to it.

Pretty much the only tactic I have agasint them. Any commissars are an easy target though, as the Solitare moves 12+3d6" once per game ignoring models. It's not hard to get character kills with him turn 1. Then it's a matter of surviving the rest.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Partninja on October 5, 2017, 10:18:53 PM
Oh I don't disagree but my army was far from a BS tourney abuse list. I mostly started them to use with my assassin models from the assassin box game. It's pure Scions with all of the assassins. I'm not running conscripts and knights and what-not.

Just mad at the wasted money/models. I would try to modify some models back to hot-shot Las, but they shared arms with the other bits.
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Lorizael on October 6, 2017, 04:34:34 AM
The increase in points to special weapons messes up my new Scions army a bit. Quite a few "wasted" models I'll need to drop to make up the points for the more expensive Taurox and special weapons. I just finished assembling them..

Hmm, I have a pure Scions army; I've just bought another box based on the new Codex :D
Absolutely loving the army!
Title: Re: New Codex
Post by: Grand Master Lomandalis on October 6, 2017, 03:08:58 PM
My friends were spitballing stupidity last night as they were going through the new codex.  They couldn't help but laughing at how it is perfectly legal to have 3 Baneblade variants (I think it was a stormlord and 2 vanilla variants) using the Valhallan rules, and Guilliman to get close to 2000pts.

I've always wanted to start a Guard army, and I'm already 1/4 of the way to having that list lol