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Author Topic: Re-tweaked Sniper Rules:  (Read 2977 times)

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Offline MagicJuggler

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Re-tweaked Sniper Rules:
« on: March 15, 2015, 10:47:17 AM »
Premise: Sniper rules either reward massive units of cheap skirmishers, or units whom possess special rules allowing auto-target allocation. Ballistic Skill as a trait does not impact the ability of a Sniper to actually choose targets of choice.

Proposal: A weapon with Sniper rolls two dice to hit. If *either* die is a "hit", the shot is allocated as normal. If *both* dice are hits, then the sniper's controlling player chooses the model that takes the hit.

Ideally, this would come with a general reduction of "Big Sniper Units" (Making the Scout Sniper a squad upgrade as opposed to the entire unit, for example). Some units, like Eldar Rangers, should be able to keep their full units.

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Re: Re-tweaked Sniper Rules:
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2015, 10:54:44 AM »
Too cumbersome.  If you want to adjust how well snipers can hit, give them a +1 to hit with precision shots and rending.
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Offline Geometer

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Re: Re-tweaked Sniper Rules:
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2015, 02:39:40 PM »
In my opinion the biggest issue with sniper weapons is that the presision hit rule allows "look out sir" (los) rools.

I would like the los rule changed to only be used when determining which model is closest to the attacker. It shouldn't be possible to los a precision shot. That would give the precision shot rule some use at all. (Do sniper rifles have the rule by default? If not they should get it with the changes above)

Offline Calamity

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Re: Re-tweaked Sniper Rules:
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2015, 03:43:51 PM »
In my opinion the biggest issue with sniper weapons is that the presision hit rule allows "look out sir" (los) rools.

I would like the los rule changed to only be used when determining which model is closest to the attacker. It shouldn't be possible to los a precision shot. That would give the precision shot rule some use at all. (Do sniper rifles have the rule by default? If not they should get it with the changes above)

I think that is a great idea.  How could they predict where a precision shot is coming from?  The sniper's shot getting intercepted by somebody else is easily represented by the shot not being a precision shot, y'know?

If the player rolls a miss, then the sniper missed their shot.  If the player rolls a hit but doesn't score a precision shot then they either shot the first target they saw, or were aiming for somebody else and then another target moved into the shot and took the hit.  Ever watched The Walking Dead?  Remember how Merle was nearly taken out by a sniper but somebody walked right into the cross hairs and took the hit?  Just like that.

So, yeah in conclusion, I think Precision Shots should ignore Look Out Sir.  With that, and the Sniper Rule, snipers can like snipers.

And as I write this...I thought up a rule...skirmishers. ..a unit composed entirely of models with this special rule increases the squad coherency range to 4''.  It's...probably not that useful.  :P
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 01:00:59 AM by Tangi »

Offline Wyldhunt

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Re: Re-tweaked Sniper Rules:
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2015, 05:44:51 PM »
That would be super useful against blast-heavy lists, Tangi. :)

I agree about Look Out Sir.  While I can explain LoS applying in a fluff sense (Someone's in that tower... Oh no! Get down, sarge!"), it mitigates the usefulness of snipers too much. Snipers would fill their niche without being overpowered if they ignored LoS.  You could pick apart death stars, for instance. Plus, they're already a nice answer to non-flying MCs.  I know you don't like large sniper squads, MJ, but maybe a better answer would be to create new units or add options to old ones to allow their inclusion rather than playing with the sniper rules themselves?

Offline Calamity

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Re: Re-tweaked Sniper Rules:
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2015, 10:31:31 PM »
That would be super useful against blast-heavy lists, Tangi. :)

That is true I guess.  :)

I agree about Look Out Sir.  While I can explain LoS applying in a fluff sense (Someone's in that tower... Oh no! Get down, sarge!"), it mitigates the usefulness of snipers too much. Snipers would fill their niche without being overpowered if they ignored LoS.  You could pick apart death stars, for instance. Plus, they're already a nice answer to non-flying MCs.  I know you don't like large sniper squads, MJ, but maybe a better answer would be to create new units or add options to old ones to allow their inclusion rather than playing with the sniper rules themselves?

That is also true.  Snipers could become decent deathstar counters.

After having another think, what if sniper rifles had interceptor?  Those of you who have visited my IG improvement thread (and if not please do) might think that I'm becoming obsessed with interceptor but I think that it would go a long way towards making snipers good.  Kind of like the original overwatch rules of 2nd ed.  If I read the rules right...it would also allow every model with a sniper weapon to target different units.  It could represent them setting up in position to ambush the enemy as they move into their sights.  And besides, a sniper bullet comes when you least expect it.  ;)

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Re-tweaked Sniper Rules:
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2015, 12:54:52 AM »
Snipers with interceptor would be good. My only provision would be that they could not have moved their previous turn. Represents them setting up and watching.
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Calamity

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Re: Re-tweaked Sniper Rules:
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2015, 06:57:21 PM »
After thinking about it for a while I'm wondering, does interceptor on sniper rifles definitely make sense?  I think I managed to justify it but I've still got some doubts.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2015, 12:50:13 AM by Tangi »

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Re-tweaked Sniper Rules:
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2015, 10:41:40 PM »
I think so. From a fluff pov they are taking a high spot, and looking over the battle field. They get some Intel or sign of reinforcements coming in a general area, and set up to take advantage of that.

So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Calamity

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Re: Re-tweaked Sniper Rules:
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2015, 10:54:23 PM »
I think so. From a fluff pov they are taking a high spot, and looking over the battle field. They get some Intel or sign of reinforcements coming in a general area, and set up to take advantage of that.

That's what I was imaging too.  And in a way, it's like a more grand version of over watch.  It also sort of makes each sniper model feel like an independent fighter, shooting separately from the rest of the unit.  Which is how it's supposed to be.

So far, I think that and eliminating LOS rolls for sniper weapons goes a long way towards fixing snipers.

PS:

I also propose the Deadshot rule for super snipers: which is precision shots are made on a 4+.  Most models I would give this too would have a super high BS skill anyway, like Vindicare assassins and scout sgt Telion.  I know that's not as good as the actual deadshot rule, but I for one do enjoy a bit of random chance.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 11:05:40 PM by Tangi »

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Re-tweaked Sniper Rules:
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2015, 01:06:31 PM »
I don't think precision shots would need the buff with the limitation already proposed in Los. Perhaps for some special characters, but many that already have special rules to precision shots tend to be on 5+ 

Think of it that the wind, moving targets, and general battle makes a precision shot rather tricky for most typical snipers. Only the very talented can be so precise
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

 


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