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Author Topic: We are getting a new edition.  (Read 8492 times)

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Offline Calamity

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2014, 04:37:26 PM »
Now that would help explain the partial abandonment of the compulsory FOC chart in army building.

Offline GaleRazorwind

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2014, 10:37:01 PM »
I was talking it over with my LGS, and we think 7th will likely be a lot of fun thanks to the new missions, but please, drink unbound responsibly. We don't have a lot of WAAC players in that group and most of us would say if you show up with an unbound army we probably won't play you. Save the unbound for prescheduled games where you both understand the expectations.
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Offline Mr Draken

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2014, 07:03:27 AM »
UPDATED INFO FOR THE OBJECTIVE CARDS!!!!

Via BoLS
Objective Secured! - Sample 40K Objectives | Wargames, Warhammer & Miniatures

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4 Sample Missions (out of the $8 36-card set)

SECURE OBJECTIVE 3:
Score 1 Victory Point is you control Objective Marker 3 at the end of your turn.

SUPREMACY:
Score D3 Victory Points if you control at least two Objective Markers and at least twice as many Objective Markers as your opponent controls at the end of your turn.

OVERWHELMING FIREPOWER:
Score 1 Victory Point if you issued a challenge during your turn.  If you issued 3 or more challenges during your turn, score D3 Victory Points instead.

HUNGRY FOR GLORY:
Score 1 Victory Point if an enemy unit was completely destroyed during the Shooting Phase of your turn. If you completely destroyed 3 or more enemy units during the Shooting phase of your turn score D3 Victory Points instead.

These sound great, not super hard, not super easy, adds a tactical element every turn. Not overly gamebreaking either.

Also new details on the psyker phaze
40K 7th - Even More Rules and Psychic Phase Breakdown | Wargames, Warhammer &

Quote
Any psyker who selects all of their powers from a single discipline are granted the Primaris power for free.

Psychic tests are no longer leadership tests. You generate your total pool, allocate dice to cast and then roll them. 4+ succeeds. X number of successes are needed to cast the power. 3 successes, for most.

Certain things can give you a 3+ on the dice, like having an affinity with the discipline. 2 or more 6s you peril. So you can still fail to cast and perils but typically if you got 2 6s you should have passed.

To stop a power, allocate your warp charge dice and roll deny the witch. 6+ to succeed. 5+ if you have a psyker. +1 if they have a hood. +1 if you're a higher mastery level and nearby the unit being affected. Even powers that do not effect you can be stopped, like blessings.

And some other random tidbits:
Quote
Wound allocation is now resolved on a weapon by weapon basis, so for example, no more flamers removing models 2 feet away.

Snapshots are resolved at -2BS

The vehicle damage chart has been altered to make vehicles slightly sturdier.  They only "explode" on a 7+

Difficult terrain now reduces the attackers' charge distance by -2 inches.

Battle-forged Troops have scoring priority over non Troops units.  They can claim objectives from non-Troop scoring units!

Ignore Cover is -2 to the targets's normal cover save

all i can say.... is BRING IT!!!!
« Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 07:07:26 AM by Mr Draken »
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Offline Slick Samos

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2014, 09:09:22 AM »
Those changes look great and exciting!  Assault from infiltrate and reserves would add to the fun, making assault way more viable.

Not so sure about the physic phase changes with D6+Mastery Levels 'warp charge' though, as it may encourage every army with access to a wizard to take one because there might be potential for a Mastery Level 1 wizard to get off 7 spells!  However if the 4+ to cast rule is true then:

Average of D6 + 1 is 4
Average of 50% chance of success of 4 dice is 2
Which is basically a free Mastery Level (around 30 to 40 points worth) which isn't that bad.  Plus there will probably be modifiers and other changes.

The changes to Witchfire mean that you can cast multiple Witchfire powers (rolling to hit and all that) in the Physic Phase and then Shoot/Run/Turboboost etc... in the Shoot Phase, which is esp. nice for Bike Phykers!
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Offline Irisado

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2014, 11:04:51 AM »
None of this is new of course.  D66 tables were around in the Rogue Trader era, and the missions and psychic phase are a mishmash of a few new bits with second edition missions, and, in the case of the psychic phase, some elements of Fantasy battle.  Some of the mission ideas look interesting, but the rest is unimpressive and unoriginal.  I don't see what it's adding to the game.

I also had to laugh at modifiers coming back.  These were the norm in Rogue Trader and second edition, and GW insisted that they wouldn't be used in 40K again once the transition was made to the AP system.  It would seem that never say never again syndrome applies here ;).
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Offline Hades Hound

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2014, 11:29:38 AM »
Not sure if anyone saw today's video on GW's daily blog, but Jervis talks about the psychic phase, and if you pause it at certain opportune times, you can get quite a nice preview of the rules.

For instance, psychic shooting attacks seem to be getting a MASSIVE boost. A psyker can manifest as many of them per turn as he can conceivably cast with available warp charges, he can target different units with different attacks, they do NOT count as him/her shooting when it comes time for the shooting phase, leaving the psyker and any attached unit to run or to shoot at whoever they feel like with eligible weapons, and subsequently assault a unit different from any targeted by witchfire powers.

I don't know much about the limitations of casting these powers, if you can only use a given power once per turn or what, but I can see the possibility of some builds where a single psyker blasts a whole enemy unit to tiny bits. Like maybe a plucky Eldar Warlock multicasting destructor to melt down a massive ork blob unit.

Offline Rip of Zahr-Tann

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2014, 12:29:11 PM »
I also had to laugh at modifiers coming back.  These were the norm in Rogue Trader and second edition, and GW insisted that they wouldn't be used in 40K again once the transition was made to the AP system.  It would seem that never say never again syndrome applies here ;).

I had a quick look over the current WD today.  More and more, from this and from the rumours I saw earlier this week, it seems as if GW are trying to meld 2nd and 6th editions, making out that features like the psychic phase, strategy cards and the are brand new and innovative.  I see that the starter armies are even likely to be Blood Angels v Orks.

And to complete the 2nd Ed feel, we've still got SECOND EDITION JETBIKES.  >:(
"You call our technology witchcraft because you do not understand anything beyond the ancient designs your ancestors used. You kill anything that does not conform to your hideous and narrow view of the galaxy. You blunder into every trap set along your path because you refuse to look into the future and consider every consequence. How your species inherited the stars is a mystery beyond our understanding." - Autarch Narios Starblade of Zahr-Tann

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2014, 02:00:17 PM »
Now that preorders are out I'm sure many of you are highly impressed at the price but, hey, you do get free shipping so that's a bonus right, right?
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2014, 04:43:30 PM »
Not too happy with the price, but what I do like is how the big beslubbering book has been replaced with three smaller books.  Breaking up the different sections so you have one book for fluff, one for modelling, and one for the rules.

So now I don't have to lug around an extra 400 pages of bullamphetamine parrot that I don't need.
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Offline LoH

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2014, 05:32:22 PM »
Now that preorders are out I'm sure many of you are highly impressed at the price but, hey, you do get free shipping so that's a bonus right, right?

The Munitorium box must have gold inlay. The eBook and iBook prices are a bit steep, but at least they aren't charging hardback prices for it.

The truly thrifty among us will leech off people nearby forever/until the boxset comes out. The thieves will thief.

I remember a lot of people complaining about 6e up until its release, too.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2014, 05:49:30 PM »
I remember people complaining when 3rd Ed came out over how different and too simplistic it was.  ;) Any change will be fought over until it becomes the norm and the next changes become the new(er) worst thing to happen to the game.
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Offline Calamity

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2014, 09:07:52 PM »
I suppose now is a good time to be getting into the game, right?  On the crux of the release of a new edition.

I just worry this 'unbound' thing might get out of hand though.

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2014, 10:15:48 PM »
No more out of hand than purifier spam / rhino rush / assault cannon spam was in it's hay day
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
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Offline Fenris

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2014, 11:10:48 PM »
I think it is dumb that I cannot buy the rules book alone. I'd gladly pay half the price of that box for just the rules.
If I wanted pictures I'd go look at them online, and if I need guidance how to paint I ask friends or watch youtube clips or similar.
If I want to read a fictional book I'll buy that separately or preferably borrow it from the library.
I guess I could sell the other 2 books if I bought the box.

As for the rumours I'm not worried at all about unbound armies, what I'm on the other hand worried about is the time the psychic phase will take, as there will be a whole new mental game between the players.

/rant
However if I wanted to play mental games I wouldn't actually need a set of rules, and I'd like that stuff to be left outside of the game. This is very unsuitable for tournaments as it will make lots of players frustrated about the other player rather than on the dice gods.
/end of rant

I hope for a good new edition though, but GW has a record of making the odd numbered edition the bad ones.
1st ed - before my time.
2nd ed - great edition but too many rules and add-ons, I think there were like 20 different kind of grenades alone.
3rd ed - buy double the size of an army or don't play, overwatch making both armies sit and wait until the game ends or run forwards and loose. (made me quit)
4th ed - Nice new balance, some streamlining but it was easier to play.
5th ed - CC and troops edition, many add-on books but no codex eldar :|
6th ed - Flyer edition, with shooting as the only way to win a battle, Allies, forts and lots of random stuff thrown in.
7th ed - Seems like more random stuff is comming, and add-ons like crazy, I might as well play Ludo. I hope there is a sensible way to play it instead, should be intresting though. There are simply too much stuff out there IMHO, but hopefully they can roll in some of the codexes and subcodexes into factions as there are rumoured to be.
There is also a rumour about a tournament add-on book coming later.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2014, 01:18:48 AM »
I hope for a good new edition though, but GW has a record of making the odd numbered edition the bad ones.
1st ed - before my time.
2nd ed - great edition but too many rules and add-ons, I think there were like 20 different kind of grenades alone.
3rd ed - buy double the size of an army or don't play, overwatch making both armies sit and wait until the game ends or run forwards and loose. (made me quit)
4th ed - Nice new balance, some streamlining but it was easier to play.
5th ed - CC and troops edition, many add-on books but no codex eldar :|
6th ed - Flyer edition, with shooting as the only way to win a battle, Allies, forts and lots of random stuff thrown in.
Overwatch was in 2nd ed, one of those many rules you mentioned.  It was removed in 3rd. 

As for their odd numbered editions being bad ones, I have to disagree on that.

3rd edition was the one that laid the ground work for all of the editions to follow.  When GW made the change from 2nd to 3rd, it wasn't like current edition changes where they are adjusting a rule here or adding something there.  They made a completely different game.  The only thing that stayed the same, really, was the name and the models.  I was going to say armies, but Rasmus would pipe in about the squats.

From everything I have heard about 2nd, 3rd was a much easier game to play.  A lot more streamlined and a hell of a lot less complex.  Going from a game taking all day to being able to play with twice as much stuff and getting it done in a couple of hours, where is the bad part in any of that?  But as 3rd edition really was the first edition of the way the game plays now, there were some issues that had to be worked out, primarily one model being able to wipe out an entire squad in combat, and the rhino rush.  3rd ed also brought in City Fight.

In 4th ed, rhino rush was gone and they overhauled the combat system so that it wasn't as effective (remember the 2" kill zone).  Shooting was given such a boost, especially when they redid Codex: Space Marines and gave Assault Cannons rending.  If you weren't playing Assault Cannon spam, you weren't competing.  Add in vehicles becoming gun boats and combat armies didn't really stand a chance.  Still had the same scenarios that you had in 3rd, just with three different levels of engagement.  In addition to redoing the rules for City Fight, they also brought in Apoc to sell bigger toys.

5th ed, toned back shooting, tone back vehicle effectiveness and gave gun boats a real kick in the nuts.  Combat was back to being king amphetamine parrot.  Fell prey to codex creep in a bad way, if you weren't playing a select few armies, you weren't competitive.  Brought in Planet Strike and Spearhead.

6th ed, so much amphetamine parrot was broken that they redid the edition in what, 20 months?  How badly written does an edition have to be for GW to say "There is too much stuff to fix that an FAQ will not work, we just need a rewrite"?  Granted, as I play a shooting army I have really enjoyed this edition, primarily because my Dark Angels are actually able to make people scratch their head and say "Wow I didn't think that was that strong!"  Brought in Escalation and Stronghold Assault.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2014, 09:08:39 AM »
I've really enjoyed all the editions, honestly. The issue is only that you need to rebuild your army for each edition to get the most out of it. I typically have just made a new army to mirror each edition. 2nd Ed was Orks, because their rules were hilarious and their heavy weapons absurdly cheap. 3rd Ed I missed (college). 4th Ed I brought Tau and had fun blowing people off the board (also played Ksons with the 3rd Ed codex--silly stuff). 5th Ed was Imperial Fists with a mechanized list and Lysander in a Land Raider--I just beat stuff up at close range (also played off-beat Khorne/Tzeentch Daemons). 6th has been Tau again, and Ksons, and Khorne Daemons (no shooting at all, win lots of games--proof positive this edition is *not* as broken as people think).

The issue with 7th really isn't the rules, it's the turnover. A lot of my friends are reconsidering playing the game at all, now, since they only *just* got their minds around 6th Edition. I'm a more serious Warhammer player than most people in these parts, and so I've been waiting for my friends to catch up to editions, buy new models, and acclimate to the new game so I could have a serious challenge. I've been playing a handicap list (no shooting) just to see if I could make it even. Now, here we go with even more craziness.

I dunno. I might be reduced to playing random pick-up games at an LGS an hour drive away, and that's much less fun than playing with your pals in your own house.

Offline Mr Draken

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2014, 10:02:27 AM »
I am looking forward to it, And i agree i think its maybe a bit early, but then again i also think its high time.... Im From australia, The guys down here have started using massive comp systems (every unit, upgrade etc is evaluated and costed) 20 points for an army, its built around 1850 points, and some things are 5 points on their own (mepheston, cypher)

The last tourney i went to used it at 2000 points, I took white scars and did alright. Bike squads were super expensive on the comp points, but i could take 2 Vindicators (could of taken 3) for no points at all..... Allies were allowed, and all but a few (myself included in the few) used allied lists. But no double force org was allowed.

I have my peeves with this edition because of the massive jump in power (both up and down) units have, And so far the changes we have seen make it seem to me to bring that fairly well to a heel. Random objective cards, unbound armies, battle forged armies with bonuses, all to me seem to (hopefully) make it a little harder to build that creep list that decimates all, and bring a little more strategy and tactical thought, turn by turn.

That is just my thoughts on it though, New edition, new army. I am starting up a Catachan army, something Ive been meaning to do for a while now, going to theme it heavily on 80s action flicks (Rambo, commando, the expendables, predator etc) and enjoy the new edition and all it brings!
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Offline Irisado

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2014, 11:34:07 AM »
The issue with 7th really isn't the rules, it's the turnover. A lot of my friends are reconsidering playing the game at all, now, since they only *just* got their minds around 6th Edition.

This is the big issue for me too.  I know that my friend who I had been playing against won't be interested in converting to another new set of rules so quickly, and I would be at all surprised if this becomes an issue for others beyond those of us posting here too.   Combine this with the cost of the thing, and there's bound to be a knock on effect.  It remains to be seen how extensive such an effect will be.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2014, 12:10:57 PM »
Again, and not for the first time, I wish I lived closer to more 40KO-ers. You, Irisado, and Benis, Tarrin, and so on sound like gamers after my own heart. Ah well...

Here's hoping the new edition revitalizes rather than discourages. Let's stay positive, folks.

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: We are getting a new edition.
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2014, 12:20:11 PM »
I am always positive about a new edition.  There is no reason to get discouraged before we see what the rules are actually like.

And if it makes you feel any better Wyddr, I am closer to you than Irisado is :P  All it takes is for you to take a trip across the boarder!
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
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I knew I had fans!!!

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"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

 


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