Topic: (1000pt) Newb DE list needs a lot of help

[Patrick Bateman]

I'm a new player and started a DE army. I got into the hobby for the painting years ago and recently decided to start playing the actual game. I created a 1000 point list and I just know it's probably absolutely horrible. I will be playing mostly against grey knights and space marines for the time being. But in the coming months I will be getting more models to allow for more variability and my other buddy will begin playing as well, which would probably be orks (but that's not until early next year at the earliest).

HQ- 150
Duke Sliscus

Elite-343
Trueborn x4
X4 Blaster
Venom

Incubi x5
Klaivex
Venom

Troops-326
Warriors x9
Blaster
Splinter Cannon
Raider
(Duke Sliscus)

Question- Is this illegal? I would like to take advantage of the special rule sliscus gives to splinter weapons, but a raider can only hold 10 models and you can only take the cannon if you have 10 models. If Sliscus joins the squad would this make it legal since it counts as having 10 models even though I don't have 10 warriors to begin with?

Wyches x5
Raider

Heavy Support-230

Ravager (Disintegrator Cannons)
Nightshield

Ravager (Dark Lances)
Nightshield

1. Quick question I have, and I realize it's a really newb question, but what exactly is the benefit of deep striking the ravagers and raiders according to the special rules with Sliscus? Also it seems like I am wasting the combat drugs benefit he gives since I have very few models that can benefit from it. The problem is I already made a model converting an archon with two blades. Could an archon be created based off this model if it turns out Sliscus isn't a good decision?

A lot of help would be appreciated. I realize that I don't know very much regarding the game's rules, but it seems like I am just setting myself up for suicide, running my guys up close via a fast transport, going against guys that have such a good armor save and toughness (marines and gk). Yet that's what I understand dark eldar are best at so I am hoping some of you guys can help a new player.

I really like the idea of the trueborn with 4 blasters. It seems like it would be a great strategy to put them in a venom, run them up to a squad and just unload on the enemy. However, because I have a hard time grasping the rules regarding transports, disembarking, etc, wouldn't they just get shot up in the process? I mean, can they move in the transport, get out, and shoot all in one turn?

If this is a crappy list, some help would greatly be appreciated. Thanks in advance and have a great day.

Thanks

[Messenjah]

All of your transports are open topped so all of your guys can shoot out of it. The Blaster has an 18" range, so you don't have to get too close in order to pop tanks and things.

When you build your Kabalite Warrior squad, you only put 9 kabalite warrior models in it. Unfortunately, Sliscus doesn't count as a tenth model for these purposes. It's just like he's still worth two killpoints because he's an independant character.

It's also a good idea to have each warrior squad's special weapons do the same thing. Ergo, you wouldn't have a splinter cannon and a blaster in the same warrior squad.

But, if you drop those two upgrades in your 9 man squad, you can add some more wyches to make the 5 you have in a raider worthwhile.

Flickerfield is a lot better than night shields. Most things that are fired at a ravager have 36"-48" range anyway. A 5+ invulnerable is much more useful.

There are plenty more things you can do, but I'll leave you with that to chew over. Other people will chime in with more improvements. Good luck, Dark Eldar are excellent!

[Patrick Bateman]

Hello, thank you for the response. I'm, of course, still looking to improve the list, however, I have a few more questions after you're last post.

1. Is the trueborn squad useful against enemy power armor units? I mean is it still good to have them as anti-termi and anti-expensive power armor squads?

2. Whats the best way to take advantage of Sliscus' splinter weapon rule? Do I just bite the bullet and eliminate the raider from the squad Sliscus joins and place him in a rather large warrior squad so they get the better poisoned weapon upgrade?

That's all I can think of for now. I'll continue mulling over a better list. Thanks for the advice and I look forward to more people's opinions as well. Have a great day!

[Shadows Revenge]

Ok, so to answer your questions, no, sliscus does not count as the 10th warrior for the Cannon. The best way to use Slicuss is an all wych army, with 1 squad of Trueborn kitted out to make full effect of his ability, (2 Cannons, rest carbines or rifles)

But anyway, lets look at the list.

HQ: He is ok, I dont think you have a list built around him, but lets put that aside and say you want to use him, since that is why he is here. Also if you are using a utility character like him, I would pick 2 of the 3 abilities and use only them. Trying for all 3 is hard to do in such a low point battle.

Troops: First off, keep that blaster. Its not about duality, but its about the *just in case* senerio. Our AT is plenty, but unreliable. Having a blaster in warrior squads not only gives you a solid shot against Power Armor units, but it gives you an AT threat out of a troop unit. Which is great.

Secondly. Why just 5 wyches in a raider??? First off the best number to tarpit is 7, and you dont have any upgrades that come from being a tarpit unit (helatrix with Ag, Shardnet) No Haywires, so your not dread tarpiting, and you have almost no numbers, so your not drowning units in attacks. Actually... 5 wyches arent even killing 1 marine on the charge... useless points.

Elites: While you 2 solid choices, your severely top heavy in points values. Look at your Elites, its a third of your army, and your only rocking two troop choices, one of which is lacking. All it takes is killing the two troops choices, and you cant win.

HS: Keep all lances, The Dissie has lost its apeal alot... plus you can never have enough lances.

So what you are looking at is what is more important??? the Trueborn or the Incubi??? Personally I would say the Incubi, because your army lacks a solid punch. But if you want to use Duke to full effect, the TB are the better of the two choices, but they have to be kitted out right. So I would say 4 with 2 SC and 2 Carbines.

Now with our new amount of points, lets get some new troop choices. I like duality, so 5 warriors with a blaster in a venom is a steal. Lets throw two of them in, And how about a squad of wyches, so you can get some use out of that re-roll drugs on Duke. So how about this list.

XX- Sliscus
151- 4 TB w/ 2 Cannons, 2 Carbines. Venom w/ Extra Cannon, NS
125- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster, Venom w/ Extra Cannon
125- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster, Venom w/ Extra Cannon
218- 9 Wyches w/ HWG, Shardnet, Helatrix w/ Ag. Raider w/ FF
115- Rav w/ FF
115- Rav w/ FF

Total: 999

[Patrick Bateman]

Thanks for your reply Shadows.

1. I realized that problem with the wyches. They were a sort of afterthought in the sense that I knew I needed them but just didn't know what to get rid of to make them worthwhile. Thanks for the advice there.

2. I'm not sure why blasters should be replaced with carbines? I understand that it would allow them to benefit from the special rule more, but even then it seems like the blasters are a better option still. If I am going to be going against MEQ armies mostly, wouldn't it be better to ignore their saves rather than allowing them the chance to possibly get the saving throw? I know this is the newb in me trying to wrap my head around something a more experienced gamer is recommending, so if you could go into a bit more depth into this, that would be greatly appreciated.

All that being said, should I just get rid of Sliscus altogether? It seems like I'm gimping myself or something? Am I right?

---EDIT---
I just feel like anything I can do, the marines and their counterparts can do a hell of a lot better. The newb in me is just having a hard time rationalizing how dark eldar speed is that much better of an advantage? Can someone explain this to me or provide some sort of antidote to describe how?
So I did some thinking and decided that maybe Sliscus isn't the best option. In that case, what would be an acceptable list type to run at 1000 points? It seems like at this low of a point total, I'm missing out on all the neat things that make Dark Eldar great. Is there anyway people have found to optimize a list at 1000 points to utilize the DE strengths against MEQ armies?

Later in the day, when I have time, I hope to come up with another list that takes into account the advice I have received thus far. However, does anyone have any further advice regarding my question above?

Thanks and have a great day.

[mod] Please refrain from double posting - I can already see you know how to use the MODIFY button, next time do that instead[/mod]

[Shadows Revenge]

1. No problem, wyches are one of DEs art forms. It takes alot of practice to know what to do with them and when. They are an amazing unit, just need to be used right to be effective.

2. First off, its WAY cheaper. Secondly if you do the math (Im a big fan of mathhammer btw) your looking at doing 2.22 wounds with 4 blasters (4 *2/3 *5/6). Just doing the assault version of the cannon (so only 4 shots) you will be doing 2.07 wounds (14*2/3*2/3*1/3) so they do statistically the same, not adding in the extra 4 shots, or dukes blast pistol into the mix. Actually, if you want. you could drop the venom for a raider, and drop down to 7 wyches for more TB with carbines, but that might put a big target on them.

3. Duke is a fine character to build a list around. If you like his rules, then keep him. You arent hindering yourself, you are just picking what you like. He is built for an assault army with 1 great shooting unit, and some deployment shinnanigans. Its what he does best.

4. Thinking of Dark Eldar as marines is something you are just going to have to give up. Space Marines are what they are suppose to be, good at everything, we excell at what our unit was made for. Look at our warriors, way cheaper than any marine. But pit the two against each other in a realistic battle fight (meaning warriors in cover, and have FNP) they are exactly the same durability. And atleast our warriors can take down MCs, while Tact Marines are just hoping their Melta gun is enough...

Each DE unit has a job, and it must be done. Now while they arent as shoe-horned in as their Craftworld cousins, they still have 1~2 roles that they fit, and you just have to know how to use them to get full effectiveness out of them.