Topic: City of Death Army Lists for a Tourney (amongst friends)

[- Aegis -]

So me and my friends are planning on pulling together a local tournament, just for fun. We'll be using City of Death rules, and playing battles that load the table with as much terrain as possible. My friends play...

Space Wolves (13th company)
Tau
Tau (Kroot Heavy)
Orks (Speedfreaks)
Space Marines
Imperial Guard
Tyranids

Rules of the tournament: 1500 points, with slack. We tend to allow up to 1509, we're not sticklers for exact change. Once you've picked a list, you stick with it for the whole tournament. Games may be random missions, or "let's just kill each other." We won't be using escalation. Nobody likes it. Also, all games are completely open-proxy. It's been a policy of mine since I started the hobby, and since I started most of them in it, they picked it up from me. Open-proxy games allow players to field-test tactics and units that could have otherwise turned out to be loads of wasted money. It also encourages variety in lists from day to day, since player X isn't limited in his games by the fact that he only really has X tanks and X infantry, etc.

Now, on to the lists. I made a couple, because I had some time to kill, and I got creative.

72 - Farseer w/Guide, CC + P
84 - Warlocks (3) w/Destructor, CC + P
195 - Falcon w/Starcannon, Holofield, Stones, and Vectored Engines

432 - Dire Avengers (9) (9) (9) (9)
152 - Exarchs (1) (1) (1) w/Power Weapon + P

128 - Howling Banshees (8)
37 - Exarch w/Executioner
135 - Wave Serpent w/Brightlance + Stones

85 - Fire Dragons (7)
125 - Waveserpent w/Brightlance

Total Models: 59
Total Vehicles: 3
Total Points: 1499

The dire avengers are really just an experiment, I've never tried a horde eldar army before. I had to cut one exarch to make the list fit the points, so that squad will lead the charge for the rest and get hit the most brutally by the enemy's firepower. The 4+ save makes the avengers far preferrable to mass guardian squads, because at least the avengers get their saves against firewarriors, smart missiles, and bolters. Between the two twin-linked brightlances on the waveserpents, the guided falcon, and the jack-in-the-box dragons, I should have enough tank busting power to keep enemy vehicles from being a huge problem. The howling banshees are always a must for me, and they can be played smart against power-armored foes to eat up more than their share. Dragons may help here as well, if used in tandem with the banshees or a squad of avengers. I'm not sure what I'm planning with the HQ squad, I think I really just want to see what three heavy flamer templates can do.

Here's another one I wrote up, and it basically works in the opposite way.

(Biel-Tan)

116 - Farseer w/ Fortune, Jetbike, WB + P, RoWit, GH
270 - Warlocks (5) w/ Jetbikes, WB + P, Enhance (1)

128 - Howling Banshees (8)
37 - Exarch w/ Executioner
135 - Waveserpent w/Brightlance + Stones

152 - Scorpions (8) w/Grenades
66 - Exarch w/Scorpion's Claw, Stealth, Grenades

176 - Warp Spiders (8)
47 - Exarch w/Withdraw

84 - Swooping Hawks (4)
73 - Exarch w/Web of Skulls + P, Sustained Assault

100 - Support Weapon Battery w/D-cannons (2)

120 - Wraithlord w/Brightlance

Total Models: 43
Total Vehicles: 1
Total Points: 1504

Here, I'm going for a very fast, hard-hitting, and resilient army. The fortuned jetbike HQ is possibly one of the most resilient squads in the game, and they can rip their way in close combat too. The warp spiders and striking scorpions feature that pretty 3+ save, and the wraithlord is the archetypical resilient beast. The howling banshees are protected by the waveserpent, leaving the swooping hawks and gun platforms as the only glass units on the field, but I took them for other reasons. I can use the D-Cannon squads (they are seperate) to drop a sphere o' fear for 24" around them, giving me an element of control over the board. To add to this effect, I'll keep my wraithlord between them and any potential enemies. The HQ squad will actually be my main tank-hunters (and they do the job extremely well), but to back them up I have the Wraithlord and his brightlance, the D-Cannons, the Waveserpent's twin-linked brightlance, and the Scorpions with their haywire grenades. Basic battle plan is to try to get into combat as quickly as I can, maneuvering my extremely fast units so that they each get locked in combat with the type of squad they specialize in killing: Banshees vs. 2+ and 3+ armor, Hawks versus weak swarms, Warp Spiders shooting at anything with a poor save or high toughness, and HQ versus tanks and assaulting , well, anything. The infiltrating scorpions and the sphere o' fear will wreak some preliminary havoc to buy me time to pull this off.

Both lists are extremely different. I'm partial to the bottom one, but that's because it's more like the list I normally field, and it's been proven to be moderately painful. The top one has its merits too, though. It will handle the swarm lists well, and if used correctly, there's no army it wouldn't have a chance of beating. So anyways, what do you think? Which would you use? Can you improve on either?

[Eldarly guy]

I like both lists so maybe you should test them and see
which one you like better?

For the first list:
I'm not too big a fan of Dire Avenger exarchs, if you
swap them for ordinary Dire Avengers you can take some
other unit you feel is missing. You could ad the Swooping
Hawk squad, although I would beef it up a bit if I were
you. You can beef it up if you take away the warlocks,
stick the farseer with the Banshees, knock off one Fire
Dragon and put them in the Falcon. Then you can put
one of the Dire Avenger squads in the Wave Serpent.

For the second list:
Although the mini-council is very good it is a lot of points.
You can take away the jet bikes, those are the biggest
points-sink and the wraithlord. The wraithlord doesn't
really fit in the army because it's slow and can't always
shoot unlike the D-Cannon, so I'd take it away.
With the free points you can buy a Falcon and put your
council in it. This will still leave some points, I think, with
which you can beef up your Swooping Hawk squad.

[Targetawg]

In your first list, you have 7 fire dragons listed at 85 points, just as an aside they'd really be 119.

I like both lists, the first one is interesting with the inclusion of so many dire avengers, in the new codex that list will probably be fairly powerful, currently, its going to leave alot to desire. Although they do have 4+ saves unlike guardians, they are more expensive, cant take platforms, and cant have warlocks for conceal or embolden. Heavy bolters among other weapons will pump out lots of fire and ignore their save. Getting them in range to do something will be a big issue. Also, the farseer has guide as his power, Im not sure what he'd be guiding since the squad he is with has only flamers. Fortune would be a better choice to keep an expensive squad like that alive, and help soak up fire.

The second list is probably stronger, but still needs some tweaking. Firstly, the d-cannons. I love the things, but in a biel tan list they dont really have a place, they're mainly useful, as im sure you know, in denying a path to an enemy, ie, they want to avoid moving in range of them. They're therefore great for protecting other troops in your deployment zone, as they cant move and shoot. This army wont be in its deployment zone past the first turn, the d-cannons will probably just end up left behind as you take the fight to the enemy. Your seer council once again takes up almost 30% of your points for 6 models, and you should if possible look at toning this down, at least enough to toss in a falcon in place of the d-cannons, and maybe move around another squad to put something in it. A good way to use a jetbike mini council is to make it 3 members (or even just a farseer) with a singing spear, and fortune. The warlocks can take destructor if you want or just be extra singing spears/wounds and go tank hunting. Remember with turbo boost +fortune you have a rerollable 3+ invulnerable save on a t5 model, or a t4 if its a warlock. They cant shoot when doing this, but its a great way to distract your opponent on the first turn, absorb alot of fire and rarely lose a model, and be behind tanks on the second turn.

[TheEldarGuy]

I couldn't see what strategems you were thinking of.

For a Shooty army I would suggest:
Power Generator strategem
Razor Wire (proxy with shoe laces or string if you don't have enough actual Razor Wire)
Sewer Rats (pop up and shoot - very nice)

If you want your transports to be worth anything, then get the Rappelling Lines, otherwise troops could just be left hanging out there for the world to shoot at.

A couple of tips:
As an Eldar player, we have Skimmers and skimmers move over difficult/impassable terrain with ease, so deploy your Buildings/obstructions 2" to 4" apart rather than a 5" or 6". This will stop Rhinos and other Tanks to move through the city map easily and you can really force their flow of traffic.

Dire Avengers really work well in Cities of Death games, LOS is almost  always reduced to 12 or less, Difficult Terrain is pain in the butt unless you can fleet and everyone gets a 4+ Cover save in a building. Dire Avengers thrive in these conditions and I hope you are pleasantly surprised with the result.

[- Aegis -]

Strategems are an issue for both armies. Not completely sure yet how to make them work for me, never having used them before. Some things look good on paper, but they fail in game (and some are the opposite).

I'm going to play test both lists with a buddy of mine first, to see which one feels the best.

For the Dire Avenger list, I added up the points again, and got 1479 (even after correcting the Dragons to 119). I remember I found an inconsistancy when I posted it (I was far over the 1500 limit) and tweaked it a bit, but obviously this isn't reflected accurately in the points next to the units. I Blame it on the timing, it was about 4 in the morning. I agree, the exarchs are a bit too much. Knocking them out could buy me another whole squad of aspect warriors, or let me redesign some other part of the army. Or add more avengers.

So, my second pass at this list...

72 - Farseer w/Fortune, CC + P, RoWit + GH
128 - Howling Banshees (8)
37 - Exarch w/Executioner
140 - Wave Serpent w/Brightlance + Stones, Vectored Engines

102 - Fire Dragons (6)
190 - Falcon w/Brightlance, Holofield, Stones

480 - Dire Avengers (10) (10) (10) (10)

210 - Swooping Hawks (5) (5)
146 - Exarchs (1) (1)

Total Models: 68
Total Vehicles: 2
Total Points: 1505

Strategems: ?

I removed the Dire Avenger Exarchs. Originally, they were there to make the enemy minorly regret assaulting my dire avengers when they take one or two power wounds, but I think I would have regretting it more. They weren't going to be very effective for their 152 points. I also followed the advice of TheEldarGuy, and dropped the farseer from the falcon (he was going to guide the falcon, making that BS 3 guns a little more reliable), and puit him with the banshees. With only one squad of dediacted power-armor killers, I realized I needed to make sure they could survive through more than one squad of power-armored foes. Fortune should hopefully provide them with the resilience required. I also added two Exarch Delivery System swooping hawks, with as many extra hawks as I could afford with the points left. Honestly, anything more than 4 normal hawks elevates an EDS to a minor harassment unit. I realized that the Avengers would have pretty good horde-killing guns, but without some help, they would get wiped out in the next turn by either the counter-fire or a charge. The EDS squads will accompany the dire avengers, and assault units after they have been shot at, or hang back to counter charge when necessary.

As for the Biel-Tan, I agree that the D-Cannons will likely get left behind in the dust. Perhaps shadow weavers, or a falcon as has been suggested. The shadow weavers may be my best option, because the ability to pin enemy units may let my close combat units run across areas where they would otherwise be vulnerable.

The uber-expensive jetbike squad is an inordinate amount of points, but I've found that they make it back every game. When my opponents see them on the board, they saturate it with so much fire power that a normal squad would wither away completely, but this is exactly what I want them to do. Besides being an excellent fire magnet, they can make it to the front lines of my enemies very fast. Because the worst enemy of a close combat army is enemy shooting, I often need close combats to obscure firing lanes so I can move the slower units across the field safely. Even against other assault armies, they tie up units so I can get my aspect warriors into their necessary positions. In a biel-Tan army, I've found that it's not the tools you use that win your games, it's how you use them. This squad lets me use the other 75% of my army to their full potential, and 75% of a well-applied Biel-Tan force can wipe the board of 100% of any enemy's army.

So anyways, I'm just explaining why I'm sticking to them, in spite of the prudent suggestions offered to me.

So, hmm... to make a new list for them...

(Biel-Tan)

116 - Farseer w/ Fortune, Jetbike, WB + P, RoWit, GH
270 - Warlocks (5) w/ Jetbikes, WB + P, Enhance (1)

128 - Howling Banshees (8)
37 - Exarch w/ Executioner
135 - Waveserpent w/Brightlance + Stones

152 - Scorpions (8) w/Grenades
66 - Exarch w/Scorpion's Claw, Stealth, Grenades

176 - Warp Spiders (8)
47 - Exarch w/Withdraw

84 - Swooping Hawks (4)
73 - Exarch w/Web of Skulls + P, Sustained Assault

90 - Shadow Weavers (1) (1)

133 - Rangers (7)

Total Models: 49
Total Vehicles: 1
Total Points: 1507

Strategems: Infiltrate, Medicae Facility

I dropped the Wraithlord and the D-cannons, because like you said, they don't really have a place here. The shadow weavers can fire ahead of my assault units, and over/through the assaults I'm going to be having all over the place. The indirect fire will help me soften up things I haven't gotten to yet, and might help me pin units that would otherwise be getting into position to waste my units once out of assault, or units that would join the assault and overwhelm me. The rangers I'm getting for the same reason. I'll infiltrate them with my scorpions so that the scoprions start on the bottom floor of the building, and theiy're a couple floors up. even when the scoprions move, since they'll be moving towards the closest unit, the rangers will still be protected from assault. The Medicau Facility strategem will allow them the Feel No Pain special rule, which means that even if they're exposed to alot of fire, they'll still be okay. A 3+ cover save followed by a 4+ save is pretty nice. Still not sure they're the best use of my points, but I think it's an interesting idea. Swooping Hawks could use a bit of a beefing, I'd like to be able to use them as both an exach delivery system and harassment firepower. I'm not sure what my third strategem should be. Maybe something offensive like demolitions, which could knock out a building full of entrenched troops?

[Eldarly guy]

I like your second list, it has a lot of variety and I think
it would do pretty good. Although where do you want
to put the Shadow Weavers? All your other units will
either be infiltrating or zipping away with their speed,
leaving them all by themselves.
And maybe you should try to get some flamerweapons
in there? I'd take Destructor on some of your Warlocks,
a heavy flamer in a cityfight will be very usefull.

P.S. isn't a support battery with two Shadow Weavers
70 pts.?

[- Aegis -]

I don't think so. 20 points per model, +25 for equipping it with a shadow weaver. There will be two gun platforms, so two models, and two weavers... 20+25+20+25=90.

At least I think that's how it works. I don't know for sure, I've never used them before.

I expect I'll deploy them as far out in my deployment zone as I can. City of Death is played on relatively small boards, 4x4, so... wait a minute... well, in normal circumstances, they'd pretty much have range to everything anyways. However, our tournaments will likely be taking place on a much larger board, more in the realm of 4x6, or possibly even 4x8.

Agreed, a flamer would be nice in this army, but I feel like if I had the points, I'd rather beef up my hawks squad so it's less of a classic EDS. Maybe if I shuffled some things around... if I went for a flamer, I'd want two, so that would mean 30 points need to be made somewhere. After all, if my HQ squad runs up next to a squad in a building, they won't be able to assault them because of the jetbikes, so I might as well strafe them with heavy flamers.

Knocking out the two shadow weavers would give me back 90 points. 30 for the Destructors, 42 for two more hawks, and 19 for another ranger? Alternatively, I could kit the HQ squad out with 3 Destructors for 45, which would be godly in strafing circumstances, but it would make the squad even more obsenely expensive (on the upside, it also makes them even more of a fire magnet). This leaves 45 for two hawks, or two rangers. OR... damn, so many choices... I could take the 90 points and make that squad of rangers a 10 man squad, and use the rest of the points for two destrucors. Which I think I'll do. The more ranger firepower is being aimed at a squad, the more effective they are. Also, the more valuable their 3+ cover, 4+ feel no pain save gets.

(Biel-Tan)

116 - Farseer w/ Fortune, Jetbike, WB + P, RoWit, GH
230 - Warlocks (5) w/ Jetbikes, WB + P, Enhance (1), Destructor (2)

128 - Howling Banshees (8)
37 - Exarch w/ Executioner
135 - Waveserpent w/Brightlance + Stones

152 - Scorpions (8) w/Grenades
66 - Exarch w/Scorpion's Claw, Stealth, Grenades

176 - Warp Spiders (8)
47 - Exarch w/Withdraw

84 - Swooping Hawks (4)
73 - Exarch w/Web of Skulls + P, Sustained Assault

190 - Rangers (10)

Total Models: 48
Total Vehicles: 1
Total Points: 1504

[Xodiac]

Your Seers on bikes seems a big waste of points. They have to dangerous terrain test if they want to enter terrain and they'll need to to assault or to claim objectives. I'm thinking you could put them in a Falcon, or just reduce the number of them. It seems very points heavy to me.

If you're going to spend the points to get Stealth for your scorps you need the infiltrate strategem and if you're taking that many rangers you need master snipers too. So that's your two strategems done. Personally I'd cut back on warlocks, drop the stealth and get a serpent for the scorpions. You can then get the grappling hooks strategem which will help both your banshees and scorpions. And if you can fit a Falcon in for the seers it benefits that too.