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Offline ΦMacGyvorkΦ

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Critique my 2k list
« on: January 15, 2012, 09:45:36 PM »
'Ello ladz,


Over the past few days I have been thinking about the usefulness of a Powerklaw Nobz in trukk mobs and I have come to the decision that it just isn't worth it. Thusly, I have adjusted my army.

 I will be using my Trukk mobs to hurtle towards enemy lines setting up and engaging those threats that either need to be held of temporarily or to set up assaults for my other units to join in at the opportune moment. These mobs can be a lot more expendable than a unit with a Powerklaw in it. I have had too many trukks blow up early and have to foot slog it with the Powerklaw then being pretty useless for the points invested in it.

The biggest issue I have with my list is deciding whether or not to:

a) Get another Warbuggy and a few more boyz instead of The Green Baron
b) Choose Red Paint Job or Grot Riggers for the Warbuggies

More than likely I will test both lists to see which seems to come out on top.


WAAAAAGH Mekgutz

HQ:

Warboss Uzgor Mekgutz ( Had a disagreement with the previous Mek of the warband and promptly devoured him on the spot, gubbinz and all )
   
Wargear: Powerklaw, Warbike, Cybork Body, Attack Squig.

Uzgor's Vrum Nobz ( Biker Nobz )
   
Wargear:

Nob 1: Powerklaw, Waaagh Banner, Warbike, Cybork Body
Nob 2: Big Choppa, Kombi-Skorcha, Warbike, Cybork Body
Nob 3: Big Choppa, Warbike, Cybork Body
Nob 4: Warbike, Cybork Body
Painboy: Warbike, Cybork Body
*unit counts as troops*

Big Mek ( not yet named - needs to do something in battle first )
 
Wargear: Burna, Kustom Force Field, 'Eavy Armour.

Elite:

7 Lootas
7 Lootas
Snikrot + 5 Kommandos ( 1 Burna )

Troops:

1 Nob - Big Choppa, Bosspole
11 Boyz - Slugga and choppas
Trukk - Armour Plates, Reinforced Ram

1 Nob - Big Choppa, Bosspole
11 Boyz - Slugga and choppas
Trukk - Armour Plates, Reinforced Ram

1 Nob - Powerklaw, Bosspole
16 Boyz - Sluggas and choppas
(Battlewagon transport)

1 Nob - Powerklaw, Bosspole
17 Boyz - Sluggas and choppas
(Battlewagon transport)

1 Runtherd
10 Gretchin

Fast Attack:

The Green Baron - Twin-linked Rokkits, Buzzsaw

Warbuggy - Twin-linked Rokkits, Armour plates (RPJ/Grot Riggers - haven't decided yet )

Warbuggy - Twin-linked Rokkits, Armour plates (RPJ/Grot Riggers - haven't decided yet )

Heavy Support:

Battlewagon - Deffrolla, Armour Plates, Big Shoota, Grot Rigger

Battlewagon - Deffrolla, Armour Plates, Big Shoota ( Mek and his squad go here )

Total points: 1999




The idea behind this army is that:

The Battlewagons can either screen for the Trukks positioned behind them, or the Nob Bikers.

Trukks can go up the flanks with a warbuggy in tow leaving or be screened by the Battlewagons.

Uzgor and his Bikers can be screened by the Battlewagons, or they can turboboost ahead and get behind some hard cover before choosing their target.

The Green Baron does what he does and tries to cause as much devastation as Orkily possible before he is killed.

The Lootas are set up to take down light transports (AV12) at range and cause wounds on MC's if possible.

Gretchin sit at a home objective or hang around near the Lootas making them difficult to assault and increasing their survivability  for a turn.

Snikrot comes on in a minimalist sized unit. He has one burna in his squad that gives him that little bit more flexibility when choosing targets that will be available to him.

Roster statistics:
HQ: 13%
Elite: 18%
Troops: 47.5%
Fast Attack: 8.5%
Heavy Support: 13%
Model Count: 103
Kill points: 17-18 depending on how I use the Warbuggies.

This is the general and quite flexible plan that I can employ with this sort of army. The units are quite balanced in points being 100-150pts each with the exception of the Bikers and Battlewagon squads. I believe this will make things a bit more difficult when choosing where your limited heavy weapons end up. On a side note: I believe this list will have a great deal of problems with are Grey Knights and Dark Eldar Venom Spam.


 If you have any questions, comments or constructive criticism concerning this list, please feel free to share  ;)
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 12:15:32 AM by ΦMacGyvorkΦ »

Offline Athaga Mor

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Re: Critique my 2k list
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2012, 11:58:41 PM »
gut reaction reply...

my initial thought is I don't care for the list.  i'll see if I can wittle out why:

1 - it feels light on attrition.. sure you have bodies but some of the squads are, for orks... tiny/very tiny (elites).  in those cases, any damage may result in elimination.

2 - for the points, i would personally dump the bikes, put the boss/nobs in one of the battlewagons, and gets some rollas (as they aren't mentioned)... or i would look at additional troops or an additional heavy slot.  if your previous argument regarding PKs stands, five more orks doesn't make that much of a difference in terms of mobile mobs and the addition of even a flamer(trukk/bw)/plank(bw) would add more than said boyz... at which point you can be choosier about getting out and get more out of your vehicles.  don't get me wrong, +5 boyz on the charge adds up, but once they are out in the open...

3 -  likewise, Snik with the small squad is equally effective... I like Snik, but for the points, I say bring it or leave it.  at that size, a regular infil squad with a rokkitt is more distracting, but imo still a mudhole for points.

4 - buggies/baron... that's fine.  they're both fairly straightforward.

5 - i feel the lootas are generally out of place... assuming the KFF is going forward with the vehicles.  you currently have the makings of a freaks army but with something like a firebase; I guess the grotz can screen with a last ditch obj grab.  if the KFF stays back, i wouldn't expect all your vehicles to make it to CC... which regardless of BC/PK you will find the trukk boyz lacking if your opponent has so much as 1-2 heavy weapons (because no-rollas means trukks are primary target for inbound CC mitigation and you only really have 4 serious AT targets... 5 if the baron registers via deployments).  at the same time, your have four vehicles which will impact the LoS for two squads.  with terrain, my experience is that you won't have choice targets for both squads - sometimes either.

6 - lastly, some things that might give you problems:  tarpit units as you reach the front line, autocannon spam, heavy midfield terrain, 13/14AV-rich opponent, extremely mobile compositions, necrons/tau/IG, deepstriking h.infantry, outflanking/reserve shenanigans.  I see your list working against bunched-static forces, enemies that want to meet you midfield/on your side, and very low attrition elite armies that can't dictate CC.
Athaga Mor
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Current project: painting my new chaos warhound titan

Offline ΦMacGyvorkΦ

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Re: Critique my 2k list
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 12:33:27 AM »
Thanks for your feedback Athaga Mor  ;D

I forgot to add the Heavy Support section in that list. I have amended that mistake and have now adjusted the list somewhat, please let me know your thoughts:



WAAAAAGH Mekgutz

HQ:

Warboss Uzgor Mekgutz ( Had a disagreement with the previous Mek of the warband and promptly devoured him on the spot, gubbinz and all )
   
Wargear: Powerklaw, Warbike, Cybork Body, Attack Squig.

Uzgor's Vrum Nobz ( Biker Nobz )
   
Wargear:

Nob 1: Powerklaw, Waaagh Banner, Warbike, Cybork Body
Nob 2: Big Choppa, Kombi-Skorcha, Warbike, Cybork Body
Nob 3: Big Choppa, Warbike, Cybork Body
Nob 4: Warbike, Cybork Body
Painboy: Warbike, Cybork Body
*unit counts as troops*

Big Mek ( not yet named - needs to do something in battle first )
 
Wargear: Burna, Kustom Force Field, 'Eavy Armour.


Troops:

1 Nob - Big Choppa, Bosspole
11 Boyz - Slugga and choppas
Trukk - Armour Plates, Reinforced Ram

1 Nob - Big Choppa, Bosspole
11 Boyz - Slugga and choppas
Trukk - Armour Plates, Reinforced Ram

1 Nob - Powerklaw, Bosspole
17 Boyz - Sluggas and choppas
(Battlewagon transport)

1 Nob - Powerklaw, Bosspole
17 Boyz - Sluggas and choppas
(Battlewagon transport)

1 Nob - Powerklaw, Bosspole
17 Boyz - Sluggas and choppas
(Battlewagon transport)

Fast Attack:

The Green Baron - Twin-linked Rokkits, Buzzsaw

Warbuggy x2 - Twin-linked Rokkits, Armour plates, Red Paint Job

Warbuggy x2- Twin-linked Rokkits, Armour plates, Red Paint Job

Heavy Support:

Battlewagon - Deffrolla, Armour Plates, Big Shoota, Grot Rigger

Battlewagon - Deffrolla, Armour Plates, Big Shoota, Grot Rigger

Battlewagon - Deffrolla, Armour Plates, Big Shoota ( Mek and his squad go here )

Total points: 1998


Roster statistics:
HQ: 13%
Elite: 0%
Troops: 53.2%
Fast Attack: 13.5%
Heavy Support: 20.3%
Model Count: 93
Kill points: 15


I would like to keep the bikers in the list if at all possible due to the fact that I already have the Forgeworld models of them  ;)

Offline SKEETERGOD

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Re: Critique my 2k list
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 08:53:08 AM »
The first thing that pops out to me is your biker nobs do not have a boss pole. At that small of a unit they definitely need one. Drop the kombi skorcha and give that nob a boss pole. Keeps your wound allocation and gives you that all important reroll, (and yes you can use feel no pain to save a failed boss pole wound).

Next, you will soon see that the PK in a truck boy squad is indeed very needed. The idea behind a truck boy squad is to have enough wounds to deliver the PK nob into combat. Yes, the 44 attacks from a truck boy squad do indeed come in handy, but more often than not it is the PK attacks that cause the damage, kill the characters/monstrous creatures, and blow up the tanks. Not to mention that having a boarding plank on said truck allows you to make those PK attacks against things with an AV without having to dismount. (a fantastic dread killer, and very handy against land raiders full of cheesinator squads)

Drop a few of the static units of your army and add in PKs and boarding planks to your trucks. I would recommend dropping lootas as they are in too small of squads. Make one squad of 10 lootas, and use the rest of the points for PKs and boarding planks.

Armor plates are not worth the points on a truck, use those points instead for either red paint or the boarding plank. It is the trucks job to deliver the boys as fast as possible, so red paint would be the better choice over armored plates.

Speaking of armored plates, re-read your squadron rules. You will see that buggies in a squadron effectively have armor plates for free because of the squadron rule. So use those points elsewhere. As a side note grot riggers are also a waste of points in a squadron as they can't fix anything until after all the other vehicles in the squadron are destroyed.

The list is coming together, a few tweaks here and there and you will have it. Good Stuff
"It needs but one foe to breed a war. And even those who have not swords can still die upon them" (Lady Eowyn)
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Offline adamscurr

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Re: Critique my 2k list
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2012, 02:19:08 PM »
Ok...  I like some things about the list and don't like others...

Your warboss is fine, and his biker nobz will be fun...  You don't have a ton of points in them and they will survive a ton of fire...  The boss will take those big shots so they will be very survivable...

Drop the additions to vehical squadrons...  It is a waste of points in a vehical squadron with the current ruleset...

The lootas are good...  You'll kill light armor well with them...

Add a second burna and 4 more kommandos...  You'll need some bodies to soak up those hits, even if you are going after rear devastator type things...  I've found that 10 kommados with two burnas is the best option, with snik...


Cause We's Da Orks, and You's Not!!!

Offline Athaga Mor

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Re: Critique my 2k list
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2012, 02:30:29 PM »
i like the new list much better than the old one.  and if skeetergod isn't smiling ear to ear he fell off his wagon... cuz that's speed freak.

Skeet's got good advice on the plates/squadrons.  i also like plank/pk... no sense in getting out when you can do a drive by.  but for the purpose of combined-charges I can go along with the BC nobz.

If you get tight on points, after plates.. RPJ on buggies can probably go first (i'd rather see that on something carrying boyz).

The bikers... i'll leave them alone and differ to skeet and the others (plus FW models get a style point just for fielding).  I'm better with them in the list now anyway.. given the lack of static units/freak-ish aggressiveness.

EDIT:
ninja'd by adamscurr --

already gave my two teef on the lootas (one larger squad or none, being the gist).  agreed, on the komms.  add to the squad or none.  i'd rather see this than the lootas, as Snik will show up at in the thick of it (which might appeal after he reads the squadron rules).

AFTER-THOUGHTS:
melta-mech list is going to be rough going... but then it usually is.  new list can handle more/better than the first imo.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 02:35:19 PM by Athaga Mor »
Athaga Mor
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Current project: painting my new chaos warhound titan

Offline ΦMacGyvorkΦ

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Re: Critique my 2k list
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2012, 07:16:38 PM »
Wow  :o

Thank you all for replying, I really appreciate your input on this  ;)

The first thing that pops out to me is your biker nobs do not have a boss pole.

Wow I am a special case for not writing that in there  :-\
I think this is a glaring example that I do in face need more caffeine to function properly  ;)


Next, you will soon see that the PK in a truck boy squad is indeed very needed. The idea behind a truck boy squad is to have enough wounds to deliver the PK nob into combat. Yes, the 44 attacks from a truck boy squad do indeed come in handy, but more often than not it is the PK attacks that cause the damage, kill the characters/monstrous creatures, and blow up the tanks. Not to mention that having a boarding plank on said truck allows you to make those PK attacks against things with an AV without having to dismount. (a fantastic dread killer, and very handy against land raiders full of cheesinator squads)

Right, I have taken your advice and altered the new list accordingly.

Drop the additions to vehical squadrons...  It is a waste of points in a vehical squadron with the current ruleset...

Done and done, I haven't used buggies or really looked at the squadron rules very much at all. Will rectify that.


already gave my two teef on the lootas (one larger squad or none, being the gist).  agreed, on the komms.  add to the squad or none.  i'd rather see this than the lootas, as Snik will show up at in the thick of it (which might appeal after he reads the squadron rules).

In regards to the Lootas, sure they are wonderful for taking down the light vehicles and I usually swear by them. On the other hand Buggies are cheaper, their rokkits are great against the light AV, they have the mobility to get into position and a higher strength shot which is usually more accurate given the TL option. Furthermore I can get  4.2 buggies for the cost of 10 Lootas and in the end, a flamer won't end the day of the buggy, but it will cause all sorts of havoc for a 150pt 10 bodied unit. I will have a look at trying to playtest them both, but as people have said.... the static unit is going to get singled out.

As for Snikrot, I do have the models for a larger unit, but with unit of 10 with him inclusive of 2 Burnas comes to 205pts which is why, I have taken him out right now as I will have to lose bodies or buggies in my new list below, which I believe would weaken it.

 I would like that extra element, but for a 205pt squad ( that will die, lets face it ) it is better that their expense be kept to a minimum. I guess that is my way of thinking about it. If Snik can't solve the problem on his own for 1-2 turns, then extra bodies aren't going to help I don't think. Kommandos and Stormboyz were units that I have used extensively before and I have pretty much got them worked out for my play style. But perhaps I still retain some of those Eldar scalpel like play styles instead of overwhelming the enemy like a good Ork should !  :-\




WAAAAAGH Mekgutz

HQ:

Warboss Uzgor Mekgutz ( Had a disagreement with the previous Mek of the warband and promptly devoured him on the spot, gubbinz and all )
   
Wargear: Powerklaw, Warbike, Cybork Body, Attack Squig.

Uzgor's Vrum Nobz ( Biker Nobz )
   
Wargear:

Nob 1: Powerklaw, Waaagh Banner, Warbike, Cybork Body
Nob 2: Big Choppa, Bosspole, Warbike, Cybork Body
Nob 3: Big Choppa, Warbike, Cybork Body
Nob 4: Warbike, Cybork Body
Painboy: Warbike, Cybork Body
*unit counts as troops*

Big Mek ( not yet named - needs to do something in battle first )
 
Wargear: Burna, Kustom Force Field, 'Eavy Armour.


Troops:

1 Nob - Powerklaw, Bosspole
11 Boyz - Slugga and choppas
Trukk - Reinforced Ram, Boarding Plank

1 Nob - Powerklaw, Bosspole
11 Boyz - Slugga and choppas
Trukk - Reinforced Ram, Boarding Plank

1 Nob - Powerklaw, Bosspole
18 Boyz - Sluggas and choppas
(Battlewagon transport)

1 Nob - Powerklaw, Bosspole
18 Boyz - Sluggas and choppas
(Battlewagon transport)

1 Nob - Powerklaw, Bosspole
18 Boyz - Sluggas and choppas
(Battlewagon transport)

Fast Attack:

The Green Baron - Twin-linked Rokkits, Buzzsaw or Warbuggy x2 - Twin-linked Rokkits

Warbuggy x2 - Twin-linked Rokkits

Warbuggy x2- Twin-linked Rokkits

Heavy Support:

Battlewagon - Deffrolla, Armour Plates, Big Shoota, Grot Rigger, Boarding Plank

Battlewagon - Deffrolla, Armour Plates, Big Shoota, Grot Rigger, Boarding Plank

Battlewagon - Deffrolla, Armour Plates, Big Shoot, Boarding Plank ( Mek and his squad go here )

Total points: 2000


Roster statistics:
HQ: 13%
Elite: 0%
Troops: 55.5%
Fast Attack: 10.5%
Heavy Support: 21%
Model Count: 96
Kill points: 15


No because of the armour plate issue reducing the cost of my Warbuggies, my new question is:

The Green Baron vs 2 extra Warbuggies. They both come in at the same amount of points.

Green Baron: Great first turn, can really throw a spanner in the enemy lines. However, two bad rolls will end his career though, usually on the enemy first/second turn. I have used him twice so far, the first game he choked something bad, the second he was invaluable.

Two Warbuggies: Two lots of extra armour and therefore screening/anti tank. A more resilient kill point with extra shots. Unable to do the first turn shenanigans that the Baron can.


Thanks again for all your assistance  ;)

Offline Athaga Mor

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Re: Critique my 2k list
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2012, 08:55:25 PM »
Quote
But perhaps I still retain some of those Eldar scalpel like play styles instead of overwhelming the enemy like a good Ork should

Ohhhh!  I've been there, and I don't think there's a little green pill to make it go away.

As for the baron vs buggy question.  that one is up to you; i think the argument is fair in either direction.  for the sake of the green in me i say go aggressive and maybe deployment will force some heavy weapons on to the baron and not the transports... which two more buggies won't do.
Athaga Mor
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Current project: painting my new chaos warhound titan

Offline ΦMacGyvorkΦ

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Re: Critique my 2k list
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2012, 09:19:13 PM »
I do like the Baron, as I already have an idea for a sexy custom ride for him floating around in my brain pan. That way I can also reduce the cost of buying warbuggies  ;D

 


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