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Offline Fold

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Fine Tuning 500 Point Doubles List
« on: September 23, 2007, 10:36:09 AM »
There's a doubles tournament coming up soon and I want to take my currently-being-built Tau out to play.

We've more or less decided on the basic composition of our force: my ally (space marines) is covering the troops and elites with Razorback mounted Marines and a Dreadnought, leaving me with something like this:

Shas'el
Twin Linked Missile Pod
Targeting Array

4 Gun Drones

4 Gun Drones

Hammerhead Gunship
Rail Gun
Smart Missile System
Multi Tracker
Decoy Launchers
Blacksun Filter

Hammerhead Gunship
Ion Cannon
Smart Missile System
Multi Tracker
Decoy Launchers
Blacksun Filter

499 points

In terms of tinkering with weaponry and upgrades, is there anything you seasoned Tau vets would change?

Offline int main()

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Re: Fine Tuning 500 Point Doubles List
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2007, 11:01:21 AM »
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Hammerhead Gunship
Rail Gun
Smart Missile System
Multi Tracker
Decoy Launchers
Blacksun Filter

Hammerhead Gunship
Ion Cannon
Smart Missile System
Multi Tracker
Decoy Launchers
Blacksun Filter

Needs target locks. Other than that, they're fine actually. If you're confident that the tournament missions won't throw any curveballs at you like a game played ENTIRELY in night fight, then you can dump the BSF. Otherwise, they are essential if you want to be prepared for anything.

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Shas'el
Twin Linked Missile Pod
Targeting Array

Without knowing what weapons are your ally going to pack exactly, I'm going to have to say that you need to pack another weapon system to go with it as well. Besides, TL+BS5 is overkill. A burst cannon would be good as a cheap 2nd weapon.
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Offline Kaiizen

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Re: Fine Tuning 500 Point Doubles List
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2007, 11:11:03 AM »
I'd also second that twin linking a BS skill 5 is too redundant. Drop the TA and the TL for another weapon.

Since you seem to be lacking volume of fire, I'd recommend a cyclic ion blaster. If you don't know what you're facing at the very least it'll be good against horde armies where the lower str isn't as much of a detriment. You also seem to have higher str weapons covered so you might be able to get away with it.

Offline Fold

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Re: Fine Tuning 500 Point Doubles List
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2007, 11:52:28 AM »
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If you're confident that the tournament missions won't throw any curveballs at you like a game played ENTIRELY in night fight, then you can dump the BSF. Otherwise, they are essential if you want to be prepared for anything.

All missions use dusk and dawn.  I don't know how many rounds there will be, but it's probable there will be at least one turn of night fighting.  Looking at it that way, I'm guessing target locks are the better investment?

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Drop the TA and the TL for another weapon.

Drop both?  Also, doesn't adding another weapon more or less neccesitate an MT?

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Since you seem to be lacking volume of fire, I'd recommend a cyclic ion blaster. If you don't know what you're facing at the very least it'll be good against horde armies where the lower str isn't as much of a detriment.

Yeah that was my concern too, although I'd hoped the sub munitions would go some way towards rectifying that.

Offline int main()

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Re: Fine Tuning 500 Point Doubles List
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2007, 12:09:18 PM »
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All missions use dusk and dawn.  I don't know how many rounds there will be, but it's probable there will be at least one turn of night fighting.  Looking at it that way, I'm guessing target locks are the better investment?

If that's the case, keeping BSF is worth it IMO. Opening up unimpeded on Turn 1 while your opponent struggles to spot your stuff can be a game-winning advantage. Rather than switch one for the other, take both.

Quote
Quote
Since you seem to be lacking volume of fire, I'd recommend a cyclic ion blaster. If you don't know what you're facing at the very least it'll be good against horde armies where the lower str isn't as much of a detriment.
Yeah that was my concern too, although I'd hoped the sub munitions would go some way towards rectifying that.

CIB's fine if you have the points to spare and want to be a bit more flexible(as it'll help in tackling heavier infantry),otherwise for simple RoF a burst cannon is a cheaper choice. And yes,it pretty much dictates that you take a MT too.
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Offline Fold

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Re: Fine Tuning 500 Point Doubles List
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2007, 12:20:33 PM »
In which case I'm stuck in a situation needing to find 12 points from somewhere.  Added target locks and swapping TA for MT and BC = 512 points.

I considered using a flamer instead of burst cannon, and I could see loosing the TL on the Ion HH (less discrepancy betwen likely targets).  That would save only 9 points though...

Offline Rudkin

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Re: Fine Tuning 500 Point Doubles List
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2007, 03:10:42 PM »
Shas'el
Twin Linked Missile Pod
Targeting Array
I would agree with replacing this with:
Shas'el: Missile Pod, Burst Cannon, Multi-tracker = 75
(vs. your setup at 78)

Quote
4 Gun Drones

4 Gun Drones
Nice and cheap. If you need extra points, combine them into one unit, and remove a few drones.
One unit of 6 drones = 72

Quote
Hammerhead Gunship
Rail Gun
Smart Missile System
Multi Tracker
Decoy Launchers
Blacksun Filter
A Target Lock will prove very useful. If you need extra points, you could swap the Smart Missiles for two Burst Cannons (which gets you more shots, with less range, for 10 points less).

Quote
Hammerhead Gunship
Ion Cannon
Smart Missile System
Multi Tracker
Decoy Launchers
Blacksun Filter
If you don't get a Target Lock for this one (or even if you do) then the Burst Cannons could prove to be very useful; yes, the range of the secondary weapons system(s) is less, but the extra shots could prove very useful; that's 9 shots at up to 3 different targets (very good at mopping up, since you can toss one burst cannon at the remnants of a squad and still get off 6 shots at a bigger unit).

~~~~

Those minor changes (namely swapping one or both of the Hammerheads' SMS for twin BCs) will give you enough points for those Target Locks. You might even have enough points (if you swap both) to keep your Shas'el at Bs5....and maybe even to give him/her a hard-wired BSF, too!

Offline Fold

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Re: Fine Tuning 500 Point Doubles List
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2007, 04:22:17 PM »
Thanks guys, for some reason I'd got this idea I needed 2 fast attack choices.  I now have this:

Shas'el
Missile Pod
Plasma Rifle
Targeting Array
Hard Wired Black Sun Filter
Hard Wired Multi Tracker

// Any thoughts on swapping the PR for a FB + BC, giving more flexibility (not to mention a cooler looking model).

6 Gun Drones

Hammerhead Gunship
Rail Gun
Multi Tracker
Decoy Launchers
Smart Missile System
Blacksun Filter
Target Lock

Hammerhead Gunship
Ion Cannon
Multi Tracker
Decoy Launchers
2 Burst Cannon
Target Lock
Blacksun Filter


497

// Irritating 3 points I can't spend!

« Last Edit: September 24, 2007, 04:41:00 PM by Fold »

Offline Derikari

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Re: Fine Tuning 500 Point Doubles List
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2007, 03:04:56 AM »
Quote
// Any thoughts on swapping the PR for a FB + BC, giving more flexibility (not to mention a cooler looking model).

Don’t. Burst + fusion is a horrible combination, at maximum range, you just have a glorified burst cannon. Once you get into range for the fusion, you have a confused suit. Both weapons are made for different targets, burst for hordes and fusion for tanks, neither are at their best when combined. If you want generalists, stick to the Fireknife (what you have), or swap to the cheaper Firestorm (burst, missiles, tracker). Firestorm is 15 points cheaper, and the same price as burst + fusion, you’d have some extra points to splash around like… uhh… flechette dischargers? Another Drone?

Offline Fold

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Re: Fine Tuning 500 Point Doubles List
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2007, 04:31:52 PM »
Interesting.  Of course I wouldn't shoot the BC and FB at the same time.  My thought process was that I would always want to shoot the misile pod, and one other weapon.  That could be the obvious plasma rifle, or maybe adding the burst cannon/fusion blaster would just give more flexibility. Most of the time the suit would indeed be the "firestorm", but with the option to take on a tank or insta-kill a character if needs be.

So it's not like it would just be a BC + FB suit...  I dunno, the PR just seems overpriced when for the same price you can get 2 other weapons that individually do their jobs (ie anti-horde/anti tank) much better.

// Edit. I just realised this would preclude a targeting array so I'm not half as sold on it anymore. Oh well, 'twas a pleasant fantasy while it lasted...
« Last Edit: September 25, 2007, 04:35:22 PM by Fold »

Offline int main()

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Re: Fine Tuning 500 Point Doubles List
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2007, 01:04:05 AM »
Quote
So it's not like it would just be a BC + FB suit...  I dunno, the PR just seems overpriced when for the same price you can get 2 other weapons that individually do their jobs (ie anti-horde/anti tank) much better.

Do not get the PR confused with the other 2. Their stregnths are distinctly different from each other(the PR is obviously intended for TEQs), but however the PR's S6 and 2 shots when rapid firing also allow it to help tackle vehicles from their side armor.

And if you aren't going to fire both at the same time, then 1 of the weapons is going to waste. This is one of the main arguments of those who oppose giving shas'os 3 weapons.
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Offline Kaiizen

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Re: Fine Tuning 500 Point Doubles List
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2007, 01:47:43 AM »
The biggest selling point for Shas'o is to get him something that only he can get. A shas'el can get a target array to give him BS 5 but a Shas'o doesn't have to waste the slot and has it inherently. This leaves you a free slot for a shield generator or even something crazy like Vectored Retro Thrusters ( I will be trying a design with hit and run and a fusion blaster sometime soon, moving 3d6 after my opponents assault phase seems ripe for a melta gunner). Just keep in mind what you want to do with your HQ. If all you need is a cheap BS 5 then go for the Shas'el, if you need something else, a Shas'o might be in order.

Offline Rudkin

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Re: Fine Tuning 500 Point Doubles List
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2007, 02:16:30 AM »
The biggest selling point for Shas'o is to get him something that only he can get. A shas'el can get a target array to give him BS 5 but a Shas'o doesn't have to waste the slot and has it inherently. [...] If all you need is a cheap BS 5 then go for the Shas'el, if you need something else, a Shas'o might be in order.

I would argue that Bs5 is really a bonus, not a requirement. A Shas'el with the same kit as the Shas'o you mention (shield or retros, etc) work well, too. Granted they are not AS potent, but they ARE cheaper. You can save yourself 4d6+1 points by simply dropping your fancy Shas'o to a mostly-fancy Shas'el. There's a lot that those points can get (Heck! It's the base cost of a Crisis Suit right there!), so don't think that just because it's a Commander, it needs to be Bs5.

Just my d6-4 cents.

Offline Derikari

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Re: Fine Tuning 500 Point Doubles List
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2007, 02:40:24 AM »
I’d agree with Rudkin, Shas’els could also put retro-thrusters to use. Heck, Shas’vres could do it too, simply because they’re cheaper. I personally see the big bonus with a Shas’o would be the command and control node, because of his LD 10, that would greatly help static/static heavy hybrid armies. With his natural BS5, giving him a simple missile pod makes him the equivalent of a BS4 Deathrain suit (0.11 difference to the Deathrain). The last slot could house a positional relay, making him a great support character for a (large) army. All for a bit over 110 points, you got anti-light tank/skimmer, leadership boost for target priority and the ability to have greater control of reserves. Could chuck in an Ethereal for morale boosts for the second HQ as well. For most other things I’d revert back to a Shas’el.

Having 1 (or 2) BS5 character(s) is nice, but it isn't absalutely necessary, as Rudkin points out so often.

Offline Kaiizen

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Re: Fine Tuning 500 Point Doubles List
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2007, 03:20:53 AM »
I rarely take a Shas'o myself, merely pointing out a reason to take him for the chance challenged such as myself. I seem to roll very low, very often, so I tend to take TA's, but with the shas'o it isn't necessary since you can't improve past this point. BS 5 and 3 slots to play with does make for some interesting ideas (for me at least).

Offline Rudkin

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Re: Fine Tuning 500 Point Doubles List
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2007, 01:24:13 PM »
I certainly do see the benefit of Shas'o and of Bs5, don't get me wrong. The added flexibility while maintaining performance is quite nice. However, when I roll poorly (and I really do sometimes), I often end up rolling 1s to hit and/or wound anyway!

Sorry to have repeated myself about the whole Bs thing, Derikari. It seems I've made my point already. :P

Also, sorry for the bit of threadjacking, Fold.


Offline bird_bath

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Re: Fine Tuning 500 Point Doubles List
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2007, 04:39:04 AM »
sorry to start up an old thread but don't you have to have a fire warrior squad because it is a 1+ unit.

Just a thought, BB

 


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