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Author Topic: !!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!  (Read 12955 times)

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Offline Bean_Bandit

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2002, 12:07:10 PM »
effectivly what your saying is a tougher solitare? :)

Offline JaHosh

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2002, 01:14:51 AM »
All the harlies are ment to be dancers & acrobats etc. etc.

In cc they could be getting a dodge save, Like DE wytches.
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Offline Archon Khiraq(danceman)

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2002, 07:46:48 AM »
LOL i wrote this all wrong...

soemthing like that seems to be in order...
as you say such a acrobtic race should *NOT* only rely on some field that  might save them.

as of the frag grenede laucher... we can stay 4" away from eachother that means 1 if even that per shot.
but some reflex save should be added in after all the are 25pts a model...

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« Last Edit: August 25, 2002, 08:04:56 AM by danceman »
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Offline Sartori

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2002, 09:21:43 AM »
I think one thing that should be kept is the high points, high stats feel of the original 1st and 2nd edition Harlequins with lot's of special abilities but low miniture counts.

One thing I think that will probably happen if/when GW brings out a Harlequin codex is a general watering down of all the things that people love about Harlequins such as being about the most powerful basic troop type in the game along with being about the most expensive.

In 2nd ed. Harle's had equivilent stats to troops which are now Elites choices such as veteran sm's.

I think what I am trying to say is keep them as they were with high movement, ie greater than normal eldar or dark eldar; high stats, basic troop choices should be the same as everyone elses elites choices or better; allow them deep striking and infiltration, as was described in the fluff in the old WH40k compendium (the red book); allow Death Jesters to have either bright lances or Shurican Cannons; and so what if you're playing a 1000pt battle and only have 17 minitures on the table and the other guy's got 45......

The whole point of Harlequins is/was that they are the elite of the eldar and make the normally elegant and dextrous feel slow und uncouth....

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Offline Venerable Wraithlord Trokoshea

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2002, 10:35:12 AM »
Sartori has a good point. I remember I had more fun playing Harlequins in the 2nd edition because they were really meant to be an Eldar Special Op Team (i.e with limited anti-tank capabilities, but without a match in HtH). Now, a squad of Wych has better performances in Close Combat... that was not supposed to be, was it?  :-\

And I really miss the blind grenades of the 2nd Edition(that was a way for Harlequins to generate their own cover while moving). IMHO, that would still make sense in the 3rd Ed.
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Offline gripen40k

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2002, 04:30:31 PM »
i think they should be allowed to take modified warwalkers as wargear, i heard u could do this in RT days. of cource it would move faster, have only limited choise in weapons, and a holofeild. i think it would work great, and the dr. faust one would do great.

 
oh yeah :)

it would do the job as an anti-tank unit. i think it would be great!

Offline LysergicZenRaver

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2002, 07:30:37 PM »
Walkers? In a Harlequin army? Doesn't fit, at all... Harlequins are meant to be agile, dexterous combatants, and giving them Walkers would do nothing of any real value.


I'd say that what the Harlequins really lack is a good solid Heavy Support choice. The Venom is OK, but only if you take a Great Harlequin or a Solitaire. The Wraithlord simply doesn't fit into the Harlequin army at all, and is essentially unworkable fluffwise. Yet you can't just whip up something (say, a walker) and give it heavy weapons, because you've got Death Jesters for your heavy weapon slinging...

Hmm... maybe Death Jesters could be moved to Heavy Support, and something similar to but deadlier than Troupes could be made for Elites... this would also encourage taking a Solitaire, since it would no longer require a loss of Death Jesters to do so...


Perhaps, for Heavy Support, you could take a band of warriors of some kind with enhanced stats and armor saves (!). To balance that a bit, they could get a rule stating that their Flip Belts are used to maintain their mobility and Harlequin fighting style, rather than to make acrobatic leaps and bounds; thus, they use standard rules for CC attacks at 2" and only advance 2d6". (ie, they do not benefit from the Flip Belt rule). Maybe no FoF, either, but that's pushing it.


Just ideas. I have no real attachment to any of them.


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Offline Scars

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2002, 08:40:06 PM »
I say can the whole 'half the WS in HtH' thing and bring in a rule like the wyches have, 4+ or oven a 3+ inv save.

Another HQ choice. Like a hard ass harlequin, mabey just a guy with normal harlequin stats with 2W.

Grenade pack launchers:
S4 AP5 Ordenence blast

Any squad that takes a hit must take a pinning test.
one use only.

Another idea for a HQ choice:
Web runner:
these guys are like super beefed up mimes who run round the warp alone, looking for drifting harlequins who don't have a troupe.

Ws Bs S T W I  A Ld
6    5   3 3 2  6 3 10

Special rules:
Warp running:
may always deepstrike ala swooping hawks, reroll scatter dice. If goes off table he is not lost, roll again next turn.

Mimes have set up rules like that of mandrakes.

Blind grenades:
in CC opponent must roll under their I or half their Ws- 3-4p

they could have dance rules like that of the wardancers in WFB, wardancers are pretty much harlequins.

I'll post more ideas later. too tired


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Offline gripen40k

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2002, 04:05:29 AM »
Walkers? In a Harlequin army? Doesn't fit, at all... Harlequins are meant to be agile, dexterous combatants, and giving them Walkers would do nothing of any real value.

um, that's why i said "modified" and they are agile, all the fluff says so, just the current rules don't fit the fluff (thank u GW once again ::)) give 'em agile rules, ie. They can move up to 6" and fire all weapons, or up to 12" and fire one. would that fit the harlie fluff? yes if they followed the original "agileness" that they were supposed to get. plus the only anti tank role is a death jester, and quite frankly, he doesn't do his job well enough.

Yet you can't just whip up something (say, a walker) and give it heavy weapons, because you've got Death Jesters for your heavy weapon slinging...
ya but they are Elites, they need to be heavy support, that's why i agree with.....

Hmm... maybe Death Jesters could be moved to Heavy Support, and something similar to but deadlier than Troupes could be made for Elites... this would also encourage taking a Solitaire, since it would no longer require a loss of Death Jesters to do so...

that statement. and the reason they don't do their job is they r elites, which doesn't make any sence.

i can understand that an ordinary warwalker would just not fit, but it could if it was modified, and that was my intension.

Offline Bean_Bandit

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2002, 09:22:44 AM »
heavy support? hmm in the old codex it said farseers and the like could only use a fraction of their powers as to use to much would be calling the attentions of slaneesh.
harles are protected from slaneesh by the laughing god
which means that they could use the full potential of their powers;

heavy support

0-1 harle Redseer 120pts
ws bs s t w  i a  ld sv
  2   3  2 3 2 3 1 10 special

weapons  - shurken pistol, cc weapon

wargear - wraithbone gaunlets

Oneman squad - the red seer may never join a squad as he counts as one in his own right (that big field of his!) note he doesnt have to take an all on your own test.

all of the harle/eldar rules apply with the exception of the following; fleet of foot, harle holo suit

this harle is trained to use his full psychic powers in devastating blasts having no fear of slaneesh he never has to resort to holding back as normal eldar psychers do. but this has left them with not very good cc ability

armor - phychic field; how strong the field is is determined by how much energy the redseer uses in any one turn
it starts as 2+ invulnerable but this is modified by any action the redseer takes; move -1; fof -1; powers -1(each), cc  -1, these are cumulative with each other and last right to the beggining of you next turn (note this replaces the normal holo suit)


The redseer can choose any two of the following powers and may use both of them each turn(ps he cannot use the same power twice in one turn also you must choose two powers).

Lighting Strikes- 55pts nominate a target within 48"  
d3, S4 ap 6 blast, bolts,
any vehicle struck is counted as being hit by a haywire grenade, roll to hit for each blast (up to 3)

Grand Train - 65pts the redseer unleashed a tremendus
blast of energy that dissapates with distance
roll to hit as normal
6" or less - s10 ap 1 blast/ord
up to 12" - s6 ap 3 blast


Phychic Throw 70pts the redseer may nominate any unit/model 24" (including friendly units, not himself) in line of sight, not in cc and move it 3d6 in any direction vehicles/models/units moved through difficult terrain must make a difficult terrain check, models/units count as being with jump packs for the purpose of difficult terrain checks.
models that go off the edge of the board are simply placed at the boards edge (no cheesy squad kill for you!) note, a squad may not be pushed or pulled into combat, if the target models end up in another squad simply place the models 1" away

Mass Insanity 50pts nomiate a target within 6" the unit must pass a leadership check or be
instantly driven insane.
the model unit counts as being in close combat for the next cc phase but all blows are directed against themselves roll to hit,wound and save as normal taking into account any special cc weapons. if the unit is charged after this power is used then the target unit unites against a common foe and may fight normally
this power can not be used against a model/unit already in cc and at the start of the next enemy turn the squad recovers is whits and my act normally.

Focused Beam - 60 pts nominate a target model(individual or part of a unit) roll 2d6 and times the result by 3 if the model is within range it is automatically struck with a s5 ap3 hit also any models/units/vehicles/structures in the direct path of the beam between the redseer and his target are hit too! this includes any friendly models.
vehicles struck are automaticlly counted as glancing hits.

Illusion - 45pts this is used when the redseer is in close combat, at the start of the turns cc phase the redseer may choose to reveal the model the enemy is fighting isnt actually him! nomiate a model to take the place of the redseer
and simply swap their positions if there are no more independent charaters other than the redseer on the field then this power cannot be used.

wargear- wraithbone gauntlets; not only do these enable the redseer to channel his incredable powers they also disrupt any enemy powers (read runes of warding, runes of witnessing)

id like to hear feedback on this idea
before people reply telling me how a phyc can have access to so many strong powers he is a heavy support
choice  i wanted somthing that fitted in with what the harles are and this seemed like a good idea :) ....i think
« Last Edit: September 9, 2002, 10:02:57 AM by Bean_Bandit »

Offline killer kurt

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2002, 02:00:07 PM »
the great harlequin needs to be beefy hes the leader of the whole army. in the fluff he plays slanesh(i think) so he could be able to transform into him giving him come kick ass abilities, he would have to take a physic test to transform and when he does he becomes unstopable mabey giving him sustained assault and +d3 strength he would have more abilities but thats all i can think of now.
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Offline Bean_Bandit

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2002, 02:34:11 PM »
he plays the part of the laughing god but i get the point
he is call upon the caress of the laughing god to aid him in his time of need.
at any time in the battle he may call upon the laughing laughing god to bestow a change in fate for him
roll a d6 on a +4 the laughing god has saved the great harle from whatever was about to befall him ie
a squad of marine have riddled him with bolter fire he died but the +4 means he never died
this d6 can change the result of anything that directly involves the great harle ie a player hitting with a v nasty weapon you call on the fates and on a +4 it is counted as a miss or if one of your weapons failed to penatrate a vehicle on a +4 it does or if an opponent saves an attack from you on +4 he takes a wound just as if he failed the save.
if you wish to call upon the fates again the chances the laughing god will answer becomes more remote you are only saved on a +5 next time and a +6 the time after

i think this would be a nice addion and would make the great harle a bit nicer and more individual


Offline gripen40k

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2002, 02:40:06 PM »
hmmmmmm...... bean bandit, u have the right idea, just that it seems a little too overpowered. i say knock off mass insanity, that's a little too overpowered. it's OK that they can only pic 2, and it's a good idea for the save, and the gauntlets. hey, even the fluff would work out. and Illusion is great, but if u used it with a solitaire, would the solitaire get all his bonus attacks as well? over all, i think he would be a great addition to the harlie codex.

Offline Bean_Bandit

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2002, 05:15:41 PM »
cool thanx for the comments i'l revise him to be more user friendly :)
ps . i thought about the illusion i thought it might be a bit too cheesy for say a swapped solitare to get a charge bonus as well, it would make the red seer a little too nasty (think of it as the solitare playing the part of a frail redseer till he got into combat)
any more comments on any other overpowered parts or suggestion to modify him in any way would be welcome :)
« Last Edit: August 22, 2002, 05:25:42 PM by Bean_Bandit »

Offline LysergicZenRaver

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2002, 05:29:08 PM »
Alternately, you could change Mass Insanity to function similar to Dark Eldar 'fexes - it gives you a blast (maybe Ordnance?) template to place over the enemy unit, and the enemy unit must take a leadership test at -1 per model hit or else suffer from mass insanity... if a small blast template was used, you could make it -1 or -2, with an additional -1 per model hit.

I like the idea of the Redseer, and of making him a heavy support option... pretty cool.

Divine Intervention for the Great Harlequin may be a bit overpowered. Perhaps if it was 5+ for the first couple of attempts, 6+ for the next couple, then stopped being available... but I don't know. I'm not sure. I do agree that the Great Harlequin needs something to make him more than just an inferior Solitaire, but I'm not sure what... maybe give him a psychic power of some kind.

Hmm... here's an idea: "Blade of Cregorach" - Once per battle, the Great Harlequin can be given a single attack that hits on a 2+, wounds on a 2+, and ignores ALL saves (including inv.). Or... hmm.. "Fortune of the Laughing God" - receives a 5++ save that works in close combat.


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Offline TeKnO ShEeP

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2002, 09:09:59 PM »
Alright, heres my two cents.  Hq is fine.  For elite i would like to see the amount of death jesters in a detachment go up to 6.  The solitare needs a point increase, but also the ability to combine the effects of two weapons.  There need to be more troop choices, such as a variant on the death jester, cheaper, carries things like fusion guns and scatter lasers.  Also, make the venom a transport, and give some real tanks.  A vyper should be added, as its nice and small, and fits nicely as an alternative fast attack choice.  The wraithlord should stay as well.  I would also like to see some sort of ability for getting out of transports that crash, like for open topped vehicles they automatically land safely.
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Offline BoyProdigy

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2002, 11:48:36 PM »
BRAIN STORM

well it just hit me. Harlies dance and so does Mog in FF6(US 3). they should have dances that take a round to do but add extra little things to there profile (like combat drugs for DE but different)

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2002, 05:53:07 AM »
I have to say I love the idea of the redseer... with a bit of tuning, they'll be perfect. OK, I'm getting all these ideas, keep going! Which part in the Dance would the shadowseer play?

Yes, performing a short masque to get the attention/favour of the laughing god is a brilliant idea also! Seeing as quins are the only race that is not chaos that has a fully intact god, they ought to benefit from it!

I think the divine intervention for the Great Quin is excellent as well. so it would be like

at any given point, the quin player may nominate a divine intervention for the great harlequin- if it has been killed, has missed etc. it may roll a 4+, on a roll of 4+ the thing happened/ the GH never died etc. the 2nd time is 5+, the 3rd time 6+, 4th time onwards the ability is lost. I don't think that's overpowered- but maybe take it as an upgrade or something.

Offline Bean_Bandit

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2002, 06:26:05 AM »
the redseer whould have to play the part of the destruction of the eldar, he plays the destruction they wrought upon themselves(dancing around slaneeh), a blaze of fire striking down all (the mass slaughter and bazarre cults that sprung up as the eldar revelled in excess before slaneesh even arrived), before the laughing god arrives he pours forth his physchic pyrotechnics showing
consumation of the old eldar world, old ideas and etravagance are washed away with the fire. hope that fits him in a bit :)

the mog dances were cool :) how about the army allowing one troupe of dancers being able to buy dance powers like say (using mogs dances ) the water rondo, or dust rondo etc, each dance has 6 effects some good some not so good and some bad
you roll at the start of each turn to see what  powers appear that round ie:

good = ingnore armor saves in combat in cc.

not so good = nether side will strike any blows in combat(leacving both sides tide up for a round).

bad = harles may strike no blows in in cc.

each dances has effects for a particular part of the turn, ie movement, shooting, cc
so you can tailor your dancers to suit a particular
role due to the complex nature of the dancers only one troope should be allowed.

note these dancers have no standard weapons, only the
the powers the dances give, ie if you want to shoot then
the blaze rondo is your thing, roll a d6 on the roll of a 6 you get the equivelent of one heavy weapon blast shot from the whole squad and you may a re-roll missed to hit roll (maybe call it the firestorm) lower rolls give you different (not always good) results

you may buy up to different two dances

btw the dancers are shadowseer/redseer initiates
their power originates from a combined effort, thats why they must stick together, you need at least two models left to perform a dance and for every model under the 5 minimum -1 to your rolls (less power to do the dances)

if any1 disagrees or has a good idea for the dancers or any other idea please put you views across, cheers btw for the feedback on the ideas. :)

if any1 likes the ideas why dont you try them out? we need to get some practical feedback on some of these new units in battle so we can say to gw "we playtested em and they worked fine"
« Last Edit: August 23, 2002, 07:33:58 AM by Bean_Bandit »

Offline Bean_Bandit

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Re:!!!Calling Harlequin Players!!!
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2002, 06:46:46 AM »
Quote
heres a good idea from:
[quote author=Venerable Wraithlord Trokoshea

I would suggest something though (perhaps GW spies are listening).  To give these Harlequin characters the ability to decide 1-to use only half of their attacks with the cumulative effects of their weaponry or 2-to use their full attacks and choose a single CCW effects. My logic is: to autopenetrate the armour and then introduce the Harlequin's kiss tip into the breach, the Harlequin must demonstrate exceptional accuraty, so he/she must sacrifice some speed to achieve the expected result.

v nice idea i think i would work well and give the harles a good option when facin armored opponents like necrons

i also think that riveblades should give +1 strength and have the option of being used ether as a powerweapon
(st4 no sv) or a powerfist (st8 no sv go last)

 


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