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Offline Shas'La robo

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2000 Tau
« on: December 15, 2013, 01:58:18 AM »
HQ
Commander: 152 Sits with the Marker drones marking targets for Longstrike/crises team and taking pot shots at transports
- 2 Missile pods, Drone controller, Target lock, 2 Marker drones
Commander: 219 Works as a great big fire magnet for the crises team (following the last game were they did absolutely nothing and were nuked first turn by a battle cannon) but can go off on his own and still be very useful.
- Fusion blaster, Missile pod, Plasma rifle, Shield generator Puretide engram neurochip, Iridium armour, 2 Shield Drones

ELITES
Crises team: 176 Kills stuff with super commander
- Shas’Vre, Flamer, Multi-spectrum sensor suit, Command and control node
- Missile pod, Plasma rifle
- Missile pod, Plasma rifle
Crises team: 60 Suicides on a tank/Warlord
- Twin Fusion blaster, Fusion blaster
Stealth Team: 115 Infiltrates/outflanks, provides some flexibility with the homing beacon so I could deepstrike  if need be, and marks stuff
- Shas’vre, Homing beacon, Burst cannon, Marker light + Target lock
- Burst cannon
- Burst cannon

TROOPS
12 Fire warriors: 213 Fish of Fury
-Shas’ui, Devilfish, Disruption pod
12 Fire warriors: 213 Fish of Fury
- Shas’ui, Devilfish, Disruption pod
12 Fire warriors: 213 Fish of Fury
- Shas’ui, Devilfish, Disruption pod
10 Kroot: 75 Outflanks or holds a home objective far away
- Sniper rounds, 1 Hound

FAST ATTACK
Sunshark bomber: 168 Main Anti-flyer, helps with anti-infantry afterwards
- Decoy Launchers, Twin-linked Missile pod
3 Piranhas: 150Kills tanks, and drones disembark for harassment
- Fusion blaster x3
4 Marker drone: 56 Marks stuff with commander for long strike/crises suits

HEAVY SUPPORT
Hammerhead: 190 Kills everything thanks to markerlights + submuntion
- Railgun, Submunition, Disruption pod, Longstrike

This is basically a rehash of my 1750 list [First list in 6 months :(] , First List in 6 months :( only really added some extra fire warriors and stealth team, and reworked the crises teams.

So what do you all think? The 1750 list I still won after losing the big crises + warlord first turn, but I feel as if I havn't got enough units for 2k, thoughts?

robo
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 06:17:13 PM by Shas'La robo »
hug cover, shoot the big ones, and cripple the fast ones. if those cant be achieved, kill em all.  8)

Offline Wyddr

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Re: 2000 Tau
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2013, 09:49:24 AM »
A couple suggestions:

1) I'd drop the second commander and work in an ethereal. Slapping an Ethereal with the Fish of Fury group makes them HUGELY dangerous, and very very much worth it.
2) To increase Crisis survivability without needing to shell out a ton of points, buy them a pair of Shield drones. Those two extra wounds and two invul saves can go a long way for not much scratch.

3) You have the points wrong on your Kroot. They should be about double what you have there.

4) With the leftover points from your dropped tank-Commander, you can buy more stealths or add more suits to the Monat unit, which might change it from 'suicide suit' to 'actually dangerous unit'.

Offline Halollet

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Re: 2000 Tau
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2013, 08:50:32 AM »
Sorry Wyddr, but I wouldn't drop the 2nd commander, they're both really good and scary.  I would take all three!

What I would do though is drop the fusion/fusion suit.  I've tried for about a dozen games to make him work and he only has about a 20% success rate, not worth it.

Drop him, and since you're at 2,000 points, you can take a second detachment and you already have enough troops to do so.  That way you can take both commanders plus an ethereal! :D

Fish of fury with an ethereal hurts and his Ld bubble is nothing to laugh at either!

With the ethereal you can drop the Shas'ui from the FireWarriors for extra points to put somewhere else!

I would try and get more shield drones in with your FireKnifes as people are learning to fear the Suite and Node.


Another option is to shave off some Firewarriors and their Shas'ui to pay for the Ethereal so you can keep your FB/FB.  Drop the shield generator from your commander (because with the iridium armour and cover saves you will rarely use it) and give him Target Lock.  That way if you're up against 2 landraiders (at 2,000 points that's easy to do) you can deepstrike the commander in the the fusion guy and go big tank hunting.  He will need puretide to really get rid of the big tanks!

That gives some flexability to your commander and you can adjust your tactics on the fly with that setup!

Other then that your list looks good!
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: 2000 Tau
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2013, 08:55:36 AM »
Fair point about the second detachment. I still don't like the souped-up commander, though (I never like them). For his cost you could buy a whole entire crisis suit unit, which would put out WAY more firepower and, since we're using a second detachment now, would be entirely legal to field.

Bricking 200+ points in a commander is a complete and utter waste of resources in the Tau list. Buy more guns.

Offline Halollet

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Re: 2000 Tau
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2013, 06:44:34 PM »
Fair point about the second detachment. I still don't like the souped-up commander, though (I never like them). For his cost you could buy a whole entire crisis suit unit, which would put out WAY more firepower and, since we're using a second detachment now, would be entirely legal to field.

Bricking 200+ points in a commander is a complete and utter waste of resources in the Tau list. Buy more guns.

I've tried not running the souped-up commander and I keep wishing I had him.  Regardless of the point cost, you still have to have a warlord that's worth a VP.  I'd rather that be a tough, dangerous dude then an easy kill.

His commander is 219, take off the Shield Gen, Iridium, Puretide (because basic crisis' can't take em) and the Shield drones to strip him down to his basics and he's 130 points.
2 crisis suits with the same weapons is 134 points.  You pay more to get essentially the same thing since the commander's BS lets him hit (almost) twice as much as one suit.
You add on the Puretide to make those weapons better and you add on the Iridium to help deny your opponent that VP.
I would drop the Shield Gen Robo, you really won't need it. Just don't leave him out in the open all alone.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: 2000 Tau
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2013, 08:28:07 PM »
I, on the other hand, have never even once wished I had a souped up commander in any edition of the Tau Dex, even this one. I lose my commander so rarely as to barely notice the lack of defensive upgrades, honestly.

No commander should exceed 150-ish points unless you plan on dropping him into the teeth of the enemy. Even then, you can give him all the Iridium and Stim Injectors you want, and he'll still die if he gets too close. The problem with that commander is that he has three weapons of which he can only shoot two. Take two and the Puretide Engram and that's it. Stick him with a long-range squad. Use the jetpack move and much scarier stuff to keep him alive.

You don't need a Shield Generator--you've got Shield drones for that that do the job cheaper, and also cover (which a jet pack is uniquely suited to take advantage of) which is free.

You don't need Iridium, because he is going to be with a squad of other guys (which makes the toughness bump mostly worthless save for ID weapons) and if you're hit by something that pierces your already pretty solid armor, you can just Look Out Sir the wound away. The majority of crap coming at him he will still get a save against and he still has a lot of wounds.

You don't need a Stim Injector, because the only things that are legitimately worrying to a commander are insta-killing weapons, and the Stim doesn't help against those.

I'm generally very much opposed to defensive upgrades on a guy who will be hopping around the backfield in a squad of other guys. Do I lose my commander? Yeah, sure, though rarely. Do I care? Hardly. My commander kicks out every bit as much offense as the points-heavy kind, usually sticks around until turn 4-5 at minimum, and saves me enough points to buy a whole additional suit, which adds more offense to the unit, adds more utility to the Puretide Engram, and adds more wounds to the unit in general. Either that or it buys me a whole additional unit or guy from elsewhere in the list.

Boys over toys, gentlemen. The new Tau 'dex has gotten a lot of folks pitching points out the window to buy perfect stuff, when you can get away with running more units and gaining more resilience, redundancy, and flexibility just by buying just enough to get by.

Slay the Warlord is a sucker's VP--if they're working that hard for that point, they're either playing The Relic or they aren't thinking clearly. Don't pay into the scam. Let them kill your warlord (big whoop--you've lost, at best, a handful of autocannon shots), just move him around in such a way to make the kill take them a little time. You don't need fancy upgrades to do this; all you need is a board with terrain. While they are devoting who-knows-how-much attention to that guy, get yourself First Blood, Linebreaker, and take objectives. Slay the Warlord is the *hardest* point to earn in the game, no matter what your Warlord is rocking for wargear. You can take a bare-bones Space Marine Librarian and the enemy won't score that point in 4 out of 5 games just because you didn't put him in harm's way. If they *do* get Slay the Warlord, it's because you were going to lose the game anyway.   

I've played against those Brick commanders. They don't add half as much as people think they do. Most of the time I just ignore them, since they aren't kicking out that much offense anyway, and I haven't felt the lack. If I can, I charge them. They get run down in assault the same as any other Tau. They just don't impress me.

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: 2000 Tau
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2013, 10:00:21 PM »
I've played against the new Tau, twice now [Thanks Hal!] and I would warn you about the Ethereal. I have the same issue with my Company Commanders. They boost your guys, but they're fragile and your opponent would be wise to prioritise their destruction. Further, they're worth extra VP's, and I think there's another penalty if he dies, maybe?

Also, as a Guard player, I typically lose my Commander, but seldom my Lord Commissar Warlord. So long as your Warlord isn't going out of his way to be killed, and sticks with a reasonably tough unit, his loss shouldn't be game breaking. The Ethereal may suffer the same problems that my Commander does, and he's worth that extra VP.

Having faced them, there is something useful about having a "tank" at the front with extra high toughness and better save/s. If I could do it with my Company Commanders, I would. Then again, the only times I can recall losing my Warlord point, was in the two games I've lost... so I can see Wyddr's point about things already going poorly by that stage.

I can attest that Hal's method of play is very effective, and his advice is sound. I can attest that I'm a good player, and Wyddr typically gives the same advice I would [Cheap-ish HQ's, and we both tend to avoid overspending on any given unit] so his advice is also good. ;) Some people like hammer units, some people like chisel units. They both have their place in 40k, depending on how you like to play.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 10:02:27 PM by GreatBigTree »

Offline Halollet

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Re: 2000 Tau
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2013, 08:41:01 AM »
*snip*

I absolutely agree with your logic Wyddr.  The difference must be who we play and how we play.  My games are rough and usually comes down the secondary VPs for the win.  Getting first blood, line breaker, and Warlord has won me games.  And my last 5 games were Tourney games where total VP points mattered!

Iridium armour changes the way I play my Commander.  Playing him without it, the way you describe, totally works.  I'm not knocking that.  But GBT actually taught me how awesome that armour is;

I had my commander as a marker drone controller with iridium.  I put him at the front so he could absorb shots and anything he couldn't handle I could LOS it off of him.  GBT fired his Colossus at my commander and he just ate all the wounds without problem, much to frustration of GBT. :)  If I didn't have Iridium then that squad would have been screwed, I would have lost quite a bit.

With my commander in Iridium, I can just ignore things like Battle Cannons, Krak Missiles, etc, Anything AP 3 or strength 8/9 my commander can just eat and laugh at my opponent.  The way I play him, he makes durability of the unit he's with so much more so they can keep firing every turn.  And all it costs me is 3 fire warriors.

I agree that things like Stim Injectors and Shield Gen just arn't worth it and they never come up.

The 3 guns does have marit though even though I myself don't play him that way.  The ability to take on anything that comes at you is great and the commander's BS makes it work.  I run mine with 2 missile pods because I hate Wave Serpents.  It all depends on the player!

*snip*

I agree, I think it does all come down to the meta game, who your opponents are, and how you play your own army.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: 2000 Tau
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2013, 09:39:28 AM »
The metagame is the metagame, that's fair. I can see the use of Iridium in a unit of markerdrones, too (not much insulation for him). I understand the strategy of tanking wounds with an Iridium Commander; what I'm questioning is its efficiency. I see those points better invested elsewhere, is all. I'm not an eggs-in-one-basket kind of guy; if the enemy really wants to kill one of my units, he's welcome to it (seriously, he is). Playing the Tau, I've got others where that came from, many of which do every bit as much damage.

That is (and always has been) the chief advantage of the Tau army list--it's monstrously cost-efficient. The fact that you have no CC ability basically gives everybody in the book a big discount. It's not a horde army, per se, but one of those rare armies that operates somewhere halfway between 'elite' and 'horde' (Dark Eldar come to mind). The vast majority of upgrades in the Tau army aren't really needed, and by cutting most or all of them out, you get a leaner, more effective fighting force. I'm certain your strategy works, Hallolet. I just think that, by trimming the fat, it could work better. Then again, as you rightly say, that's me and that's how I play. To each his own.  :) 

 


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