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Author Topic: This is how a Goverment passes a bill - Same Sex Marriage  (Read 3168 times)

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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Offline Rasmus

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Re: This is how a Goverment passes a bill - Same Sex Marriage
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2013, 07:52:43 AM »
Truly uplifting.

Welcome to the club (my country has been there a while now).

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Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: This is how a Goverment passes a bill - Same Sex Marriage
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2013, 10:54:04 PM »
W00t!

'nuff said.

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: This is how a Goverment passes a bill - Same Sex Marriage
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2013, 10:55:40 PM »
Good on you, New Zealand. The Good is increased. Welcome to the club. :)

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: This is how a Goverment passes a bill - Same Sex Marriage
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2013, 11:07:18 PM »
Embarrassing at taking so long. We used to help lead the world in these sort of things. We finally allowed women in combat roles in 2000 which was another aspect that took too damn long.
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Offline Chrysalis

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Re: This is how a Goverment passes a bill - Same Sex Marriage
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2013, 01:17:21 AM »
This is very good news. This puts our own country to shame, since so many people seem to be rising against the law project. A real shame for a place that used to be a land of freedom and democracy... :(

Offline Slick Samos

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Re: This is how a Goverment passes a bill - Same Sex Marriage
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2013, 01:00:23 PM »
I don't see this democracy you are talking about.  All I can say is where is the democracy? (UK)
Firstly in our main government is not considering the two rival petitions and are instead forcing it through...
People who have gone traditional 654,048 Coalition For Marriage
People who have gone for redefinition 65,955 Coalition For Equal Marriage

Some Northern Ireland ministers are pushing forward a Gay Marriage for a second time (debate to start 29 April) after it got voted against on 01 October last year.  Second bid to force same-sex marriage on Northern Ireland | News | The Christian

In two recent referendums more Scots said no to redefinition of marriage than responded to the Scottish independence referendum.  70,000 responses about marriage compared to 21,000 responses about Scottish independence.  And guess what about 50,000 said no to a redefinition of marriage and the Scottish ministers are still forcing it through.  50,000 say ?no? in Scots gay marriage consultation | News | The Christian

Tell me where is the democracy of this!!! 

Note that I'm promoting a debate about democracy in democratic countries not a debate about policy so please don't turn this into something else... 
And no just because I'm a Christian doesn't mean that I'm automatically wrong / stupid / blah blah blah  (I'm not suggesting that you would try and just attack me (ad hominem - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem) instead of my argument about a lack of democracy, just making sure some kid doesn't turn this into something it isn't)
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Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: This is how a Goverment passes a bill - Same Sex Marriage
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2013, 12:18:26 AM »
While I'm uncertain of the population of those countries, 50000 votes "No" is probably in contrast to millions of "Don't Care, let 'em eat cake," and another 50 000 "Yes" votes.

It is not the goal of Democracy to only allow what is "best" for the largest number of people. It is the duty of a Democracy to ensure that the rights of individuals are respected. To that end, allowing two consenting adults the option to enjoy the rights and obligations of marriage, regardless of their gender/s, ensures that all persons are being treated equally.

I don't like squash. I think it is a vile vegetable with no redeeming quality. I think that the people that eat squash must have something wrong with them, because a person of sound mind would never eat such a repulsive thing. It's offensive. Truly disgusting. I'll bet that I could get at LEAST 1 000 000 signatures on a petition, mostly from children, that would agree with my perspective that it should not be eaten by anyone. I'll never get a law passed that will ban it though, because for all my revulsion, other people like it, and I have no sensible right to deny them their option to eat it.

PS: If you wish to keep your religion out of it, and I have no problem with that, you don't need to bring it up. :) I'm a zealot when it comes to people getting married and raising families. Whether adopted, or by "outside assistance", homosexual couples that wish to improve the future by raising children in loving homes are all right in my books. Everyone should have children. It gives an incredible perspective on your life, truly showing the value of things, and it is atrocious that such a life-affirming activity could be denied to anyone... and there's the zealotry coming out.  :-[ beslubber it, it's the truth.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 12:29:45 AM by GreatBigTree »

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: This is how a Goverment passes a bill - Same Sex Marriage
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2013, 12:53:10 AM »
As a non-breeder in an over decade long marriage (so far), I say "hmmmm."  ;) However, I agree with a lot of the rest of the above.  :)

Polls out of the UK also show a majority favouring same sex marriage. Considering that the first link given to a petition is filled with the usual nonsense. Yes, I say nonsense as when court cases have been bought about regarding the matter those claims couldn't be proven. Prop 8 in the US, for example. Saying it doesn't make it true. I'd refer you to the second video from the honourable member where he answered basically the same short sighted claims regarding doom and gloom for those of us already married. In my own words - what a load of the Udders of Thoth.
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Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: This is how a Goverment passes a bill - Same Sex Marriage
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2013, 08:24:00 AM »
As a non-breeder in an over decade long marriage (so far), I say "hmmmm."  ;) However, I agree with a lot of the rest of the above.  :)

We've been married for 6 in May, together for 6 more before that. Don't worry about it, you've got the rest of your life to make the correct decision.

Zealotry, you know how it is. I'm mostly just playin'... ;)

Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: This is how a Goverment passes a bill - Same Sex Marriage
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2013, 01:13:16 PM »
Tell me where is the democracy of this!!!

You're right, it's not really about democracy - it's about acknowledging that there are very few reasons to limit the legal benefits of marriage to couples of opposite sex, and also very few reasons to appease religious movements by pretending they've got the right to monopolize a human legal insitution that existed before any of them.

Offline Lachdonin

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Re: This is how a Goverment passes a bill - Same Sex Marriage
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2013, 07:48:21 PM »
Tell me where is the democracy of this!!! 

This issue was never about democracy. It's not democracy which led to the outlawing of Slavery. It's not democracy which gave women the vote. This is ethics, plain and simple, and it's about time we pulled out heads out of our democratic asses and did whats right for a chance.

Congrats New Zealand, welcome to the right side of the line.
[gmod]Antagonistic comment removed. We are not here to say one country is better than another as that is just asking for a flame war.[/gmod]
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 12:00:35 AM by Grand Master Lomandalis »
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Offline Guildmage Aech

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Re: This is how a Goverment passes a bill - Same Sex Marriage
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2013, 07:51:25 PM »
50,000 people is not a democratic majority. Scotland has approximately 8 million people in it i believe. Of whom 7,999,950 didn't object to gay marriage. So allowing it looks like democratcy to me.

Besides there is an ethical point to it. Just because its a minority of society doesn't mean their needs and rights get ignored.

Lastly, regardless of what loud mouth bible bashers (such as the priests getting involved) say marriage isn't religious. I'm a hardline atheist and I'm getting married, if anyone comes to tell me there's a religious aspect to my wedding they can duck right off!
I still see no reason priests are involved in government anyway.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: This is how a Goverment passes a bill - Same Sex Marriage
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2013, 09:14:00 PM »
As New Zealand adjusts - some churches have said their premises and clergy will not conduct/be involved with same sex marriages, some have said their clergy won't but their premises are open to said marriages, and others have said - it's all good, bring it. As expected.

The government response is - it's your right under the law to refuse/allow as you feel responsible in this situation. As it should be.

Marriages can be religious but they're not required to be. As Hymirl stated, his won't be and that's his choice. Other's may choose for a religious marriage.
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Offline Ollieb

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Re: This is how a Goverment passes a bill - Same Sex Marriage
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2013, 09:38:22 AM »
There sure are going to be a lot of heartbroken, lonely, cold sheep this winter.    ;D ;D


Good on them for this.  Contrary to what some here would believe I could care less who sleeps with whom. 
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