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Author Topic: Un-cheeze this squad  (Read 998 times)

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Offline - Aegis -

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Un-cheeze this squad
« on: July 13, 2003, 05:19:05 PM »
In games of about 1500-1750 pts, I commonly include two Hawk Exarch delivery systems (squads of 4 Hawks w/ a tooled up exarch). The Exarchs have the WOS, and Sustained Assult. They regularly mop up the board...

But my main question here is... is this cheezy? I don't want to become a powergamer, so if this is an example of it, lets nip these habits in the bud.

And if it is cheezy, what should I do to un-cheeze it? Add more basic Hawks to the squads, for Fluff? Just use one squad?

Thank you for your help, Disgruntled_Santa
Victories: ∞
Draws: 1
Losses: -24

Offline Devern, The Unsung Hero

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Re:Un-cheeze this squad
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2003, 05:28:35 PM »
well, what army do you play and post your list, personally I play with a 7 man squad of hawks, with the usual exarch, meh.   Have people complained about this list?  considering that those squads are pretty small and therefore can be taken down easily I dont see them as much of a threat, especially with the new assualt rules out.  But post your list.  See if you have a balanced list without them I'd say it is over kill, but if they are integral to your list, then you need them.  pretty simple.
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Offline - Aegis -

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Re:Un-cheeze this squad
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2003, 05:47:08 PM »
My list changes depending on who I am playing, but I mainly use the two Exarchs against Tau, backed up by an waveserpent rush loaded with scorpions. Assulty armies work best against Tau, I have found. This is as much of my list that I can remember...

HQ: 1 Farseer, singing spear, runes of witnessing, guide

HQ: Kurandras

Troops: 2 defender squads, 10 men in each (including gunners), scatter laser for each squad

Elites: 2 Striking Scorpion squads, 9 men in each, one squad has an exarch with Scorpion's claw, the other is led by Kurandras

2 Waveserpents, spirit stones (each), 1 brightlance, 1 starcannon

Heavy: Falcon, CTM, Starcannon

Fast: 2 Swooping Hawk squads, 4 men and Exarch (each) w/ Web of Skulls and Surprise assult

That comes out to somewhere between 1500 and 1750, if I played a bigger game, any extra points would go into some more heavy support, or some vypers. This list is changing, though, with the new vehicle rules, which make my rush suicide. This is why I am inquiring about the Hawks... They are the assult squads I am keeping, here. The scorpions will have to go.
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Losses: -24

Offline Devern, The Unsung Hero

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Re:Un-cheeze this squad
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2003, 06:01:18 PM »
lol, that looks like my list, except I have dragons and reapers in there.    Hmm yeah I dont think the units are cheezy in this list, shrug, you should get baraoth instead of Karandras and see the reactions then...heh.
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Re:Un-cheeze this squad
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2003, 06:12:53 PM »
I could... I'm soon going to scratch the many scorpions, anyways, in light of this recent release of vehicle rules... So, I will have a footslogging army loaded with Hawks, Spiders, and other fast units... I may even invest in some jetbikes, because I always thought they would be fun. In short, the only thing that is carrying over from this list is the Hawks, and I wanted to make sure that they were cheeze-less first... It will be difficult anf fun re-tooling Eldar into an army that doesn't use transports...
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Losses: -24

Offline Devern, The Unsung Hero

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Re:Un-cheeze this squad
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2003, 06:16:57 PM »
you want to make a non vehcile list thats just as fast as a mounted list, more power to ya!  
Quote from: Sheep
FMG is a Swiss army knife. Always a tool, but with so many functions. And he fits right in your pocket.
I cut a hole in your head, using it as a hump-hole.[/color]
We have some messed up people here..

Offline - Aegis -

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Re:Un-cheeze this squad
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2003, 06:45:07 PM »
I will certainly try... if ther's any army that can do it, its Eldar. When I get it figured out, I'll post it for feedback.

- Disgruntled_Santa
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Draws: 1
Losses: -24

Offline Kaladis

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Re:Un-cheeze this squad
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2003, 07:16:08 PM »
thatss not cheese thats a waste of points against most armys

ultamite killing force. damn they r hot!!!!!
Awwwwwww The power of Cheese!!!!!!!!!!

Offline - Aegis -

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Re:Un-cheeze this squad
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2003, 07:26:45 PM »
Against most armies, yes... but the Exarch Delivery System works wonders against Tau. Thats who I play most of my games against, anyways.
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Offline Devern, The Unsung Hero

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Re:Un-cheeze this squad
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2003, 07:28:12 PM »
I got 37 hits in form one exarch VS a firewarrior squad.
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Re:Un-cheeze this squad
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2003, 08:00:33 PM »
Point proven... in excess. 37 hits? Holy cow. This is why I take these squads. On the charge, the Exarch has 4 attacks, and the odds say you can get an insane amount of hits out of one round of combat, even if your rolling is poor. It is a time-tested Eldar technique.
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Losses: -24

Offline The Hive Custodian (Retired)

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Re:Un-cheeze this squad
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2003, 08:05:05 PM »
If you hit on a 5+, you will get a mean of 50% more attacks.

If you hit on a 4+, you will get a mean of 100% more attacks.

If you hit on a 3+, you will get a mean of 200% more attacks.

The median will be lower than this, however. So, usually you'll get fewer attacks than the average, sometimes you'll get around the average, and once in a while you'll get an insane amount.
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Offline Devern, The Unsung Hero

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Re:Un-cheeze this squad
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2003, 08:06:56 PM »
heh, my friend still doesn't think it's being played correctly, he's like, "nothing should get that many attacks!"  well come on WS5vs WS2 of a fire warrior is gonna land some hits.
Quote from: Sheep
FMG is a Swiss army knife. Always a tool, but with so many functions. And he fits right in your pocket.
I cut a hole in your head, using it as a hump-hole.[/color]
We have some messed up people here..

Offline Iyanden_WraithLord

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Re:Un-cheeze this squad
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2003, 08:50:33 PM »
I would have to say that you should keep the hawks, maybe not ALL of em, but most. Most people dont use them much (ive had 6 forever, used em once) so its really nice to see someone that knows how to use em if they do that much damage!!!!
I find other assaulters better (spiders and scorpions)
but thats just me. So I would say scale em down a bit, but if they work, who cares if theyre cheesy. Nothing is cheesier then 15 Strength 5 Toughness 5 troop models (wraithguard) and 3 Strenght 5(10) Toughness 8 models (Wraithlords) and thats my main force when I field a 1000 pt army, so, theyre not that bad at all :D ;)
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Offline Yhoshua

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Re:Un-cheeze this squad
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2003, 07:14:28 AM »
I think it's a great idea.  Hawks are very nasty against tau, I have seen first hand, as I use them in my army.  No it's not cheesy, it's just taking advantage of their lack of WS, he is right put in baroth and watch them squirm.  I think your army is a great idea, post it up when you're finished because I would like to see what you did.
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Offline Rathireon

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Re:Un-cheeze this squad
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2003, 08:23:06 AM »
Greetings Santa!

IMO it is quite fair to take these two Hawk squads in your army; not cheesey at all!  I do see how a Tau player could consider it a little annoying but hey, your squads are not invincible so it's his problem if he can't deal with them, not yours!

Saying that, you mention: -

Quote
They regularly mop up the board...


It may get boring for you and your opponent if this is the case.  I always think the best battles, enjoyed by both sides, are those closely fought.  I think maybe you should give your Tau opponents an occasional break from the Hawk tactic: -

Perhaps only take one squad?  Or only take an Exarch in a full squad?  Or if you want a real challenge and wish to show your opponent the undisputed superiority of your Eldar, don't take any Hawks at all??

Then again....you could really drive him crazy by taking a whole army of Hawks!  Mua ha ha ha!!

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Re:Un-cheeze this squad
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2003, 05:21:46 PM »
Rathireon (and I DID spell it right!), you make a good point. I'll try to field a single full squad with an exarch, and with the saved points, I'll probably be able to tool up the exarch in my Spider unit that I'll be including soon... We'll see how that works. I do want him to have a chance, which sounds strange seeing as he is the Veteran and I am the Noob, so hopefully this will make it a closer game than the last two have been. A slight thing: Mopping up was perhaps too strong a term, but the point was that the Hawks have always made their points back for me... well, almost always. Lets just say that gun drones piss me off. That was a black, black day for Eldar, everywhere...
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Draws: 1
Losses: -24

Offline Grey Mage

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Re:Un-cheeze this squad
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2003, 07:46:41 PM »
Personally I love hawks. As  Said consider taking barharroth, and if you want to lessen possible cheese, add a couple of hawks to each squad. If you trim down enough scorpians to put them in the falcon it should balance out. Then trade the falcon for  a small squad of reapers or maybe one of those shiny new assault squads.... hmm...  
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