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Author Topic: Help Update Kage on the Background?  (Read 381 times)

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Offline Kage2020

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Help Update Kage on the Background?
« on: September 27, 2021, 03:37:51 AM »
There's a whole bunch of stuff that has change about the 40k background since I... err... went in another direction. I had always approached the setting from an RPG angle and, then, BL/FFG produced the 40k RPG and it took a very different approach and, well, that's cool enough.

Now I'm buying minis to do something creative with my son (collecting, painting, 3d scanning, 3d sculpting/modding), but it's not a part of me to ignore the background.

My first passion has always been the Eldar so, if you would, catch me up from WD127 (my gold start standard). Connect the dots to the "Triumvirate of Ynnead" and anything else.

In advance, thanks!

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Re: Help Update Kage on the Background?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2021, 06:29:15 AM »
I don't know what white dwarf 127 was, unless you mean this issue. https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/White_Dwarf_127_(2016)

Your best bet for anything updated is the Craftworlds codex, as that'll be anything post Gathering Storm, which is where we are now. There are also novels, and psychic awakening, but that didn't really have a huge impact for the Aeldari, mostly just some revelations to do with the Ynnari's goal to collect all 5 of the Crone Swords. 4/5 of which they already have.

You could also read the Gathering Storm, It's on Warhammer+'s Vault, so you could just pay for the one month and read all the books.
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Offline Irisado

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Re: Help Update Kage on the Background?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2021, 10:08:59 AM »
White Dwarf 127 introduced the first Eldar army craftworld army list and the background for craftworld Eldar and it remains the go to source for Eldar background and lore.

Much of what is written there still applies.  The new additions do not significantly contradict the original background, rather they act as expansions or additional material.  The only major change, in my opinion, is the renaming and repackaging of the Eldar race.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Help Update Kage on the Background?
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2021, 10:59:03 AM »
Here's the short answer:

The Eldar discovered they had a few extra letters in their name and are now called Aeldari.
The Dark Eldar couldn't let that kind of EXTRA pass without answer, so now they're the Drukhari.

The Eldar started a cult to their death god who helps them die and also not die. Their cult leaders helped Roboute Guilliman not-die and now he's running the Imperium, basically. He and some big-time Techpriest on Mars introduced the Astartes to steroids and now it's a whole thing. They re-re-re-discovered antigravity drive, too, so that's fun. 

Oh, and they ret-conned the 13th Black Crusade so that Cadia fell (and exploded) and half the galaxy blew up and now everything is GRIMMER and DARKER than before.

In other news, I guess Magnus nuked the Space Wolves' homeworld in the largest and most overwrought game of Backsies ever played. The Necrons found some extra legs they weren't using and got creative. The Orks remembered how fun it was to saddle-up boars back in the old days and found some squigs to ride. Everyone has kinda collectively forgotten that the Tyranids and Tau exist, and the Guard is doing the same thing it's always done.

There you go--you're basically caught up.

 

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Re: Help Update Kage on the Background?
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2021, 11:55:35 AM »
Biel-Tan is also destroyed as a craftworld. Her people have survived, many of them joining the Ynnari, Cult of Ynnead, and more perished during the demonic invasion of Biel-Tan. Not sure what the remaining survivors are up to.
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Re: Help Update Kage on the Background?
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2021, 11:53:45 PM »
Oh, and they ret-conned the 13th Black Crusade so that Cadia fell (and exploded) and half the galaxy blew up and now everything is GRIMMER and DARKER than before.

In some respects yes, a lot more warmp storms, massive tear in space cutting off a number of SM home worlds, but the imperium has changed a lot, they have basically become Eldar with Crawl copying Eldar tech and tactics. New better marines, better wargear, new better tanks, the are getting the Primarchs back, etc Ultramarines and Ynnari are best buds. Ynnari is one sword away from killing slaanesh. GW rushed Ynnari into to the picture and basically set fire to CWE lore. Nerons got their silent king back. Eldar and Necrons are talking again, oh and Nerons no longer want to kill every thing and they have much more personality. I would say the universe suffered one big loss but is on a much more positive outlook.


Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: Help Update Kage on the Background?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2021, 04:51:47 PM »
and the Guard is doing the same thing it's always done.

Well, they got a fancy new Dog Latin name.

Post Merge: September 29, 2021, 05:02:55 PM
In the future, please use the modify button. Double posting is against the forum rules, and for that reason, the system merged your posts.

As for lore of the Triumvirate (kind of a weird name for the unit, imho), it's basically the three central figures of the Ynnari movement/faction.

Yvrain is the most central one. She's basically been every type of Eldar, from Craftworlder to Corsair and to Dark Eldar, but she got some kind of revelation and escaped from Commorragh with the Visarch, who was also a former Craftworlder gone Dark Eldar.

They were looking for a way to awaken Ynnead without killing their entire race, and managed it by sacrificing most of the souls in the Biel-Tan infinity circuit, and creating the Yncarne, which is the Avatar of Ynnead, basically like the Avatar of Khaine. Sorta.

Now they're gathering member of all the Eldar subgroups together and looking to gather cronw swords to take the fight to Slaanesh.

Also Yvraine woke up Roboute Guilliman, as noted above, healed Rubric marines, and has a cat.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2021, 05:02:55 PM by Sir_Godspeed »

Offline Kage2020

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Re: Help Update Kage on the Background?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2021, 11:14:35 PM »
Apologies for the quote-fest.

Your best bet for anything updated is the Craftworlds codex, as that'll be anything post Gathering Storm, which is where we are now.
Okay. Good information. It's going to take me a little bit to get there because it will primarily be motivated by my son and, well, we're not quite there yet. I'm going to steer clear of the BL novels, though. They're not my cup of tea.

...It's on Warhammer+'s Vault, so you could just pay for the one month and read all the books.
That's a fantastic resource that I did not know about. Thank you, Lord of Winter and War--very much appreciated.

...is the renaming and repackaging of the Eldar race.
The renaming has been mentioned in the thread, but would you be so kind as to clarify what you mean by "repackaging"?

The Eldar started a cult to their death god who helps them die and also not die.
I don't think that this is new? The whole shebang about Ynnead is not new to me even though I parted ways in--what?--the late 0's or early 10's.

Links to the Harlequins, the Eternal Matrix (did I remember the term right?), talk of "avatars of Ynnead", and relations to the Laughing God etc.?

Their cult leaders helped Roboute Guilliman not-die and now he's running the Imperium, basically. He and some big-time Techpriest on Mars introduced the Astartes to steroids and now it's a whole thing. They re-re-re-discovered antigravity drive, too, so that's fun. 
So, basically:

  • Oh dear. ;)
  • I gotta know. Steroids!?
  • Imperial grav tanks to buff them even more, or something more interesting?

Oh, and they ret-conned the 13th Black Crusade so that Cadia fell (and exploded) and half the galaxy blew up and now everything is GRIMMER and DARKER than before.
I have absolutely no problem with Cadia, but "half the galaxy blew up"!?

There you go--you're basically caught up.
I will catch up for the fun of it, so once again thanks. Do you have kind of "Bluffer's Guide" to the updated background from, say, 2008? Sort of a "Covers the main stuff" with perhaps an optional, "And if you really want to" list?

I know it might be a lot to ask, but you can only say no. :D  (Errr, I hope that's the only thing that you can do!)
 

In some respects yes... [a lot of double-takes by me snipped]

I'm going to have to double down on the main stopping points for reading if you have (and I will get) Warhammer+ for at least a year.

...escaped from Commorragh with the Visarch, who was also a former Craftworlder gone Dark Eldar.
Based purely on aesthetics I thought that they were going to come from a whole Khaine-based vibe, so fairy snuff.

...and creating the Yncarne, which is the Avatar of Ynnead, basically like the Avatar of Khaine. Sorta.
Anything happen to the Cegorach? Where to the Harlequins fall in with all of this?

Now they're gathering member of all the Eldar subgroups together and looking to gather cronw swords to take the fight to Slaanesh.
Typo clarification: is "cronw swords" meant to be "crown"? "Crone"?

Edit: Found the answer in reading through some of the materials in Warhammer +. Thanks!

Thanks everyone. If you would be so kind, keep 'em coming!
« Last Edit: October 1, 2021, 12:50:21 AM by Kage2020 »

Offline Irisado

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Re: Help Update Kage on the Background?
« Reply #8 on: October 1, 2021, 06:07:16 AM »
Repackaging refers to the reconceptualisation of the Eldar race through the new names.  It's all part of how GW marketing altered the brand, so to speak.  It's nothing major, but it appears to be more of a significant change than it actually is for those of us who played the game long before Aeldari were even a thing :D.  This is all I meant by repackaging.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Help Update Kage on the Background?
« Reply #9 on: October 1, 2021, 08:53:12 AM »
So, basically:

  • Oh dear. ;)
  • I gotta know. Steroids!?
  • Imperial grav tanks to buff them even more, or something more interesting?


The "marines on steroids" comment refers to a new "innovation" by said AdMech Archmagos to make the Astartes even BIGGER and MORE MARINE-Y. They are called Primaris Marines and they're my single least favorite piece of background to come out in the last few years.

Essentially, a new batch of marines who are taller and tougher and everything-er better than the old marines to help fight off new threats. They are called "Primaris" marines.  Furthermore, they figured out how to let the old-school guys cross "the Rubicon Primaris" to become every bit as swole as their new junior members.

This is, of course, a pretty naked attempt at transitioning the old marine models into new ones and the backstory of it all is just a half-assed justification for it. I would have had zero problem with them just updating the whole model range to a larger scale, but instead we have an insanely bloated codex with twice as many units as is necessary or feasible to balance. The half-assed fluff explanation (what if marines were NINE feet tall? Eh? Ehhhh?) is just salt in the wound.

Yeah, and GW just wanted to model grav tanks for the Astartes, because they look cool and sell better, and just said "and, anyway, they rediscover this stuff." That part doesn't bother me, exactly, but the fact that said Grav Tanks cannot accommodate their smaller brethren does bother me, since it makes no damned sense. There's a sign next to the Primaris vehicles, I guess, that says "You must be THIS tall to ride." 

Offline Kage2020

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Re: Help Update Kage on the Background?
« Reply #10 on: October 1, 2021, 05:28:40 PM »
Repackaging refers to the reconceptualisation of the Eldar race through the new names.  It's all part of how GW marketing altered the brand, so to speak.  It's nothing major, but it appears to be more of a significant change than it actually is for those of us who played the game long before Aeldari were even a thing :D.  This is all I meant by repackaging.
Thank you for the explanation. I didn't want to misinterpret something! :D

The "marines on steroids" comment refers to a new "innovation" by said AdMech Archmagos to make the Astartes even BIGGER and MORE MARINE-Y. They are called Primaris Marines and they're my single least favorite piece of background to come out in the last few years.  [snip]
Aaaah. One of the sets that I bought for my son to look at/appreciate were "Primaris Aggressors," so that explains what they are.

Yeah, and GW just wanted to model grav tanks for the Astartes, because they look cool and sell better, and just said "and, anyway, they rediscover this stuff." That part doesn't bother me, exactly, but the fact that said Grav Tanks cannot accommodate their smaller brethren does bother me, since it makes no damned sense. There's a sign next to the Primaris vehicles, I guess, that says "You must be THIS tall to ride." 
I thought "gravitic" technology was one of the things that made Eldar (at least initially) unique?

What are making the armies distinct in terms of play style and background now? As an outsider coming back, it just seems that GW is dogpiling all the cool stuff onto Marines and the Imperium?

I'm hoping that this is an incorrect assumption?

Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: Help Update Kage on the Background?
« Reply #11 on: October 1, 2021, 07:55:32 PM »
I don't think that this is new? The whole shebang about Ynnead is not new to me even though I parted ways in--what?--the late 0's or early 10's.

Links to the Harlequins, the Eternal Matrix (did I remember the term right?), talk of "avatars of Ynnead", and relations to the Laughing God etc.?

No, Ynnead itself is pretty old school (hell, you might've been one of the people who told me about it for the first time), but them actually DOING something about it and driving the setting forward is obviously new.

Quote from: Kage2020
I have absolutely no problem with Cadia, but "half the galaxy blew up"!?

Basically, cracking open Cadia ("The planet broke before the Guard did" became a kind of fandom mantra for a while. Good stuff.), destroyed the Necron pylon network around the Eye of Terror, and it sent a rip across the entire galactic disk, joining up with smaller warp storm like the Maelstrom and some others.

Everything on the far side of this "Great Rift" became known as the Imperium Nihilus, because the light of the Astronomican is hugely dimmed there, so many of the Imperial worlds fell into disarray or were picked off by Chaos forces or aliens.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Quote from: Kage2020
...escaped from Commorragh with the Visarch, who was also a former Craftworlder gone Dark Eldar.
Based purely on aesthetics I thought that they were going to come from a whole Khaine-based vibe, so fairy snuff.

Well, he used to be an Exarch, and then an Incubus, so I guess that's pretty Khaine-y, but no, not explicitly so. His blurb mentions that his armor is from some pre-Fall style, so make of that what you will.

Quote from: Kage2020
...and creating the Yncarne, which is the Avatar of Ynnead, basically like the Avatar of Khaine. Sorta.
Anything happen to the Cegorach? Where to the Harlequins fall in with all of this?

I think Yvraine went to the Black Library and helped the Harlequins to resist a Chaos invasion, and then got some help with her quest, I don't quite remember.

Quote from: Kage2020
Now they're gathering member of all the Eldar subgroups together and looking to gather cronw swords to take the fight to Slaanesh.
Typo clarification: is "cronw swords" meant to be "crown"? "Crone"?

Yes "crone", I just typed this stuff too late for good spelling, lol.

Quote from: Kage2020
I thought "gravitic" technology was one of the things that made Eldar (at least initially) unique?

What are making the armies distinct in terms of play style and background now? As an outsider coming back, it just seems that GW is dogpiling all the cool stuff onto Marines and the Imperium?

I'm hoping that this is an incorrect assumption?

I don't know the exact IRL publication chronology, but I'm fairly certain that anti-gravity was mentioned in sources discussing the Dark Age of Technology even way back. Possibly the Great Crusade too.

At some point, when the Horus Heresy novels starting being churned out in serious numbers, I think we got examples of Imperial antigrav vehicles being used there (I stopped reading after book five, so I'm a poor source).

Then, Forgeworld started releasing Horus Heresy models, and we got a 30k spin-off game, and there several factions have antigrav vehicles (possibly as per the novels.) One example being the playable Custodes, for instance.

Then, the Custodes got an army in 40k, and we got an update AdMech army (which is really cool, actually, you might want to check it out). I'm fuzzy on the exact publication order, but I'm pretty sure both of these have antigrav vehicles even in the 41st millennium. This sorta makes sense given their elite and technical themes, respectively.

In there at some point is the release of the Primaris marines, and them getting antigrav  vehicles, with it being "rediscovered" in the sense that the Imperium now know how to reproduce them and innovate on the designs, as opposed to just keeping 10,000 year old vehicles alive or whatever the Admech did previously.

That's about as far as I know.

If this makes the Eldar less unique I couldn't tell. I'd imagine they're still faster and squishier than Marines though, even if marines are... just kinda everything.
« Last Edit: October 1, 2021, 08:10:15 PM by Sir_Godspeed »

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Re: Help Update Kage on the Background?
« Reply #12 on: October 1, 2021, 09:10:26 PM »
In terms of playstyles, the Marines haven't gotten hugely *faster,* they can just fly over stuff. The movement on their vehicles is decent, but nothing compared to most Eldar stuff.

But yes, the new Primaris Marines are certainly knocking the Eldar out of the "super elite" category they operated for years. They have specialist teams that put all the Eldar Aspects to shame, for the most part.

Offline Kage2020

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Re: Help Update Kage on the Background?
« Reply #13 on: October 1, 2021, 11:14:24 PM »
...but them actually DOING something about it and driving the setting forward is obviously new.
That's true. I remember people such as myself always wanting the setting to move forward and yet fearful of what GW would actually do if they went through with it. As I'm learning more (thank you, everyone) it seems very much a "sweets with the sorrow situation." But--hey!--there are some sweets!

Quote from: Kage2020
I have absolutely no problem with Cadia, but "half the galaxy blew up"!?

Everything on the far side of this "Great Rift" became known as the Imperium Nihilus, because the light of the Astronomican is hugely dimmed there...
So, in essence, the Eastern "Fringe" just got a whole lot bigger and, ha, badder?

Well, he used to be an Exarch, and then an Incubus, so I guess that's pretty Khaine-y, but no, not explicitly so. His blurb mentions that his armor is from some pre-Fall style, so make of that what you will.
Catching up with some of the background materials on that Warhammer+ so while I'm sure that I'll get there eventually, having the preview is a real help.

I think Yvraine went to the Black Library and helped the Harlequins to resist a Chaos invasion, and then got some help with her quest, I don't quite remember.
I may have to refer to  Yvraine as (a) "Mary Sue" by the sounds of it. (Then again, I was never a huge fan of where they took the Eldar Path so... Yeah.)

I don't know the exact IRL publication chronology, but I'm fairly certain that anti-gravity was mentioned in sources discussing the Dark Age of Technology even way back. Possibly the Great Crusade too.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I have the same recollection that humans in the G/DAoT had access to it, but it was still lost knowledge. This functionally meant that, as the Eldar had it, it was one of the distinctions that led to the whole "fast attack" thing. (This was true from the days of WD127. So much fun with D-cannons on anti-grav platforms, the Doom power etc. The enemy squats collapsed so deliciously quickly! :D )

Whyddr might have covered this, however, by stating that the Eldar still maintain the advantage in this regard. As I have not actually played the wargame since very shortly after the publication of WD 127, I'm obviously behind the times.

I stopped reading after book five, so I'm a poor source).
Fully understand. I actually purchased an Ynnari/Gav Thorpe novel today because it was: (1) available for Kindle now (smart move, GW); and (2) I remember enjoying some of Gav Thorpe's novels before, even though others lambasted him.

*crosses fingers*

Edit: Nope, it's as bad as I remember.

One example being the playable Custodes, for instance.
This seems to fit with the "Custodians get the best gear" mindset. (If only GW could get over this notion that the bigger a model is the more powerful it is.)

...and we got an update AdMech army (which is really cool, actually, you might want to check it out).
I'll take that recommendation. A brief Google and read suggests that they contain a lot of cool minis and, if I ever did get to play, I would just have to ignore the background as much as possible.

If this makes the Eldar less unique I couldn't tell. I'd imagine they're still faster and squishier than Marines though, even if marines are... just kinda everything.
According to the limited reading I've done, that seems to gel. Thank you.

But yes, the new Primaris Marines are certainly knocking the Eldar out of the "super elite" category they operated for years. They have specialist teams that put all the Eldar Aspects to shame, for the most part.
That seems... disappointing. I guess I had always hoped that the technology thing would given them an edge, but GW seems very keen on keeping the structure of armies much the same.

Well, good for them. It's got them through all these editions! :D
« Last Edit: October 2, 2021, 05:47:51 PM by Kage2020 »

Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: Help Update Kage on the Background?
« Reply #14 on: October 3, 2021, 03:55:43 PM »
Yeah, their Marinephilia is as strong as ever, perhaps even moreso now that 40k has gotten some sorta-mainstream attention.

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Re: Help Update Kage on the Background?
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2021, 02:12:06 AM »
Yeah, their Marinephilia is as strong as ever, perhaps even moreso now that 40k has gotten some sorta-mainstream attention.
Yeah, I saw the toys.

Seriously, though, I just wanted to thank you guys 'n' gals for all that you have done to help me get back into things. I'm reading and getting wise and, to be honest, realising that I should just ignore the background and just think about the rules/mini side of things.

I'm still trying to find an artist to do some character T-poses so that I can practice my 3d modeling, but other than that...? Thanks.

 


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