Topic: Eldar Corsair Codex! (project?)

[Lord Ulthanash]

I've been so busy the last couple of months, but I'm still doing this guys, and I'm happy enthusiasm has grown while I was away.

@Saim-Hann Corsair
I agree that the transport would be AV 11-11-10, fast, skimmer, open topped. I think there would be two variants of this, a transport that holds 10 models and a gunship (im thinking of a combination of a raider/ravager and a vyper).

I don't know about letting them get the best of both worlds for the vehicle though. If this is to be used then opponents can't feel like its over powered.

I think walkers may be used occasionally, for scouting, but I agree no monstrous creatures/ or wraith units.

@KiiwanRakahari
It will be extremely fast, but not as fast as the DE. Eldar and Dark Eldar already are capable of running rings around opponents, but I'm thinking corsairs would sacrifice some of the DE speed for a little more protection on their vehicles. See above vehicle idea. As for shooty vs. close combat, I'd rather have a codex that can be used to kit units the way an individual wants.

@nil
I just can't see a Farseer just getting up and leaving a Craftworld. The only psykers would be at Warlock level, once walked the path of the Seer, then left. Maybe invent some other warlock powers. As warlocks don't need to take psychic tests, maybe create a system where every turn you roll a D6 and on a roll of a 4/5+ they have to take a perils of the warp test. That way they are still just as likely to survive a perils, but it would happen more frequently (as they aren't as trained).

For the regular squad (say 10 men) 2 of them could replace the 'pirate rifle' created earlier with a flamer or melta at X points, and 1 model could replace his pirate rifle with a heavy weapon.

The assault sqauds of pirates would be armed with cc weapons + pistol and 2 models could replace them with a flamer or melta at X points (like storm guardians). They cannot take a heavy weapon, but an additional 1 - 2 models could replace the cc weapon and pistol with a special close combat weapon.

Alternatively, following the idea that pirates don't really get to pick and choose what they're armed with, it could be that the regular squad of pirates has the choice of either a pirate rifle or a pistol and cc weapon. 4 models in the unit would then be allowed to upgrade to either a flamer, melta, special close combat weapon or heavy weapon. While this would be fluffy, I think it game terms it would be to much and the unit wouldn't be very effective at doing anything.

[Farceseer Syranaul]

Count me in the BS/WS 4 camp.  Eldar and eldar pirates have historically had that level of skill.  The reason guardiqns don't is that they are comppetely untrained, inexperienced levies.

In correct, historically common pirates have had weapon and ballistic skills of three.  Nor are guardians completely untrained or inexperienced levies.  Every Craftworld Eldar are trained in the basics of battle.  If you want something untrained to compare to.  Look at the Imperial Guard's conscripts.  Don't try saying that Eldar are so uber that they should be able to out match a common Guard infantry soldier.  Skills of three is the standard for trained soldiers.  Four is reserved for the elite trained and experienced.  Any higher is reserved for extraordinary skill with several campaigns worth of experience.

editing was ninja'd by Ulthanash

[Lord Ulthanash]

Count me in the BS/WS 4 camp.  Eldar and eldar pirates have historically had that level of skill.  The reason guardiqns don't is that they are comppetely untrained, inexperienced levies.

In correct, historically common pirates have had weapon and ballistic skills of three.

I'm thinking that as pirates are fighting frequently, they'd have increased skill in the area they choose to go in. Therefore shooty pirates WS 3 BS 4, and cc pirates WS 4 BS 3

I think we agree on
S 3 T 3 W 1 I 4 A 1 Ld 8 Sv 5+ (with some sort of upgrade possibly to make it 4+, akin to carapace armor)

[nil]

Ulthanash:  no, of course, no warlocks, and definitely no farseers, but that doesn't mean that psykers aren't common.

Siranaul: The eldar of RT, who were all pirates and mercenaries, all had BS and WS equal to that of a space marine.  When an Eldar's main job is killing things, they settle into this profile.  When an Eldar's main job is to be a poet, or a cook, or whatever, they settle into the guardian profile.  I believe that pirates belong in the former camp rather than the latter.  There's still room for new recruits with guardian profiles though.

I'm not sure what you're saying about guard-- yes, I am saying that trained Eldar are superior to trained humans.  I'm surprised that there's any sense that they shouldn't be.  3 is the standard for human professional military, just as 4 is for eldar, and 2 is for some races (tau, irks).

Edit: Ultha, I recently posted my vision of Eldar raiders/mercs/pirates to the forge.  Rather than a complete collection of what is and isn't allowed, it is a single elites option, with a morass of special characters that make the corsairs troops, so it's not exactly what you're going after, but it might be worth some ideas.  My own ideas have been influenced by a wide variety of pirate armies and home-grown lists-- entirely too many to list.  I'm sure I included entirely too much text, but the basic pirate unit is at the very top:

http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=211707.0

[untoldstory]

I actually love this idea.  for some reason im thinking about the codex structure similarly to the IG codex.  where you have the fleet admiral with his leitenants(sp), each of which get their own transport ship to command.  then the transport ship can be given a crew, maybe be accompanied by a venom-esque gunboat if they pay for it(or have gunboat squad be elite choices.

[Lord Ulthanash]

That was my original idea in the earlier stages of conception, I may go back to it. Anyway, this project is not dead or on hold, I'm slowly putting together a word document. When its all done I'll post it up here for review, and slowly we can get a finished product together.

[tmonster]

I think you should include prince yriel of iyanden and duke slicus the serpent as special characters in the codex, as they are corsair eldar, from both sides of the the good vs evil sides.

[KiiwanRakahari]

On the subject of a pirate Psyker, fluff wise it's really kinda hard to believe. The path of the Seer is the longest most enduring path of all the Eldar aspect, and like mentioned, I don't just see them getting up and running off to be pirates. furthermore without the infinity circuit and spirirt stones/ghosthelms and what not that is common to eldar psykers, they suffer a grave danger to perils of the warp. Most Eldar would not risk themsleves to slannesh that way, as an unchecked rogue psyker is just asking to get attacked from the warp. There is one idea I think might be feasible, as well as adding flavor to a corsair codex. You could have a special Hero Psyker for the army. Some named guy synonymous with pirate activity, who had found some array of items to help protect him from the warp (represented in wargear) that perhaps he had taken from other eldar or space marines or who knows what. He would probably be more combat inclined than Eldar farseers, and he wouldn't be as good as them in his abilities, but still a decent character adding plenty of tricks and tactics to the army. Just a thought 

[nil]

I disagree regarding psykers.  Farseers and warlocks are not the only Eldar psykers.  There are numerous mentions of Eldar being psykers with frequency; there's a fluff mention I'm thinking of that talks about Eldar using psychic powers in pursuit of their current path.  Technicians using  psychokinesis for fine manipulation, doctors using empathic powers, that sort of thing.

If anything, the craftworld path system works to limit Eldar psychic potential.  If you choose to see pirates as akin to Rangers, walking some sort of strictly defined outcast path, then there might be some ground for limiting psykers.  I think of pirates as pathless Eldar who have abandoned Craftworld philosophy.  That's part of what makes them so mercurial, and, yes, prone to risk-taking.  Risk-seeking behavior-- thrill-seeking behavior-- is key to everything written about pirates so far, so I don't see "Slaanesh might swallow my soul" to be much deterrent to pirates.

[Farceseer Syranaul]

If anything, the craftworld path system works to limit Eldar psychic potential.  If you choose to see pirates as akin to Rangers, walking some sort of strictly defined outcast path, then there might be some ground for limiting psykers.  I think of pirates as pathless Eldar who have abandoned Craftworld philosophy.  That's part of what makes them so mercurial, and, yes, prone to risk-taking.  Risk-seeking behavior-- thrill-seeking behavior-- is key to everything written about pirates so far, so I don't see "Slaanesh might swallow my soul" to be much deterrent to pirates.

The Eldar Path system allows the Seers to focus on little else other than psychic potential.  If anything, Eldar that do not adhere to the Path allow the distractions around them to lessen their focus on psychic potential.

The majority of pirates are young Craftworld Eldar that often return to their home after time spent as a pirate.

You are underestimating the fear and hate that ALL Eldar have for Slaanesh.  Every Eldar must either have the protection of a spirit stone, live a life dedicated to the Laughing God, or dwell in the webway the majority of their lives.  Any Eldar that would ignore the danger to their very soul that Slaanesh presents will not live long.  Or becomes tainted and turned into a chaos serving Eldar. 

But then again you'll just ignore any thing you don't want and try to deny what is written in the codex with some weak excuses or disbelief everything I've said.

[KiiwanRakahari]

Slannesh is the eldar's boogey man     the surviving exodite and craftworlds alot to fear from the warp. It's akin to Hell, except they have indisputable proof that you will go there and good deeds will not save them. As mentioned, infinity circuit or the laughing god are all the eldar have to keep there souls safe. This does not totally exclude psykers from a corsair army, but regular troops like a warlock don't seem reasonable to me. furthermore, most rangers/pirates eldar who live off the path, normally do so when young, and this would be before aspect training, which counts warlocks out. I still think a character psyker would be believable, but I don't see a bunch of warlocks getting up and deciding they want to go party for a change. just a thought. 

[nil]

But then again you'll just ignore any thing you don't want and try to deny what is written in the codex with some weak excuses or disbelief everything I've said.

You know, I cannot for the life of me come up with a well-intentioned reason for saying something like that.

About the most charitable interpretation would be to consider it a not-so-polite request to shut up.  Guess I'm feeling indulgent today, so wish granted.

[Je[st]er]

hey guys,

I'm really interested in the idea given here.
first things first, i know little to nothing about all the fluff and story out there.
so i can't, with regrets, participate in this debate.
but when I'm thinking about a corsair fleet and pirates somethings come to mind:

its a fleet, every life is valuable and not easily replaced.
everyone has a job to fullfill within that fleet.
pirates seem open minded and should accept outcasts from all over.
i see a fast hitting army mid range that's very manoeuvrable.
are corsairs rich? can they afford a lot of big ships --> gunboats etc?

so this being said this is what came up in my mind and i would find really cool:
low model count, but a lot of small boats viper/venoms with a lot of different crew.
troops: [insert name]
must consist of 1 general, 4 troops and a transport for [set amount off points]
[general name] bs4 ws4 s3 t3 w1 i5 ld9 sv5+
[normal troop name] bs4 ws3 s3 t3 w1 i4 ld8 sv5+
[small transport] av 10/10/10

options

wargear troops:
normal gun 24" str4 ap5 rapid fire
defensive grenades for +1pt a model?

options general
heavy weapon options?
would be fun to link this to the race that is centered as a general?
DE splinter cannon, CWE reaper launcher, space marine bazooka?

options small transport
a list of options with weapons that have range till 24"?
examples: corsair cannon str5 ap4 assault2 24"
                  corsair melta str8 ap2 assault 1 18" melta*
and several new vehicle upgrades for corsairs?


this way its awfully divers for people to make pirate fleets. There should be a lot off small things from every army in the troops, and no fleet would be the same.
its just an idea so don't shoot me down immediately, just think about it for a bit and maybe balance it out or something? i wonder what your opinions are about this!

greets!


edit:
This diversity idea should not reflect in the rest of the army, its still an eldar corsair army. I just thought it would be awesome for the army diversity and the different weapons they might've bought at blackmarkets etc.

[tmonster]

i like that unit idea but i think raiders should also be included just not closed top tanks.

[Je[st]er]

ok so adding to that whole fleet idea maybe creating some hierarchy in the army
 
                                                         corsair fleet boss  (HQ)
                                                      gives a buff or special rule to:
                                fleet general (elite                                  fleet general (elite)
                        these give a buff or special rule based on the general choice to their smaller fleet,
                              pick the units for the smaller fleets before battle, these must be defided evenly
                     
this way you get a hierarchie over 3 levels.
and when a fleet general dies, his fleet loses their buff/rule.
and when the boss loses,the entire army loses their buff/rule.

about the buffs/rules, i would say give the corsair boss 3 playstyle options. These each open 4 or 5 special rules than can be picked for the (maximum off 3) fleet generals, since there are 3 elite choices in the FOC.
And giving that this is a hierarchy i'd say the higher you climb up the ladder you get a better ship.
so in this trand i'd say give the generals raiders. So that their squads are also bigger than the troops.
And give the commander an option to choose between tank i.e., venom/raider/wave serpent/falcon.
The big boss should be able to pick his ride to direct his attack in the way he wants to.

[Wuestenfux]

Have you thought about the newly released Eldar Corsair conversion kit: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/ELDAR-CORSAIR-CONVERSION-KIT.html

[Lord Ulthanash]

As my summer 2011 has now started, this project gets into full swing this coming week! All ideas are welcome, PM me or post here if you're interested. Lets get a conversation rolling!

[Killskin]

Well, the Dark Eldar aren`t really just Dark Eldar, they are Dark Eldar, Wyche Cults, Hellion Gangs, and Haemonculli Covens. If a group of pirates would be able to gain the "loyalty" of one of these sub-factions, I see no reason why corsairs would not be able to include units such as Wyches or Beast masters or Hellions.

Just a thought.

[Lord Ulthanash]

Does this count as thread necromancy? I hope not; I've been inactive for a while.

With Imperial Armour 11, I've become more inspired than ever to complete this. Unfortunately I got lazy and caught up with coursework to ever give this project the attention it deserves, but I'm free now. Granted, because we have IA11, this codex has largely become unnecessary, but I feel that IA11 is too restricting in a lot of ways - it doesn't account for the variety that can be seen in a corsair fleet, and seeing as how each of us has to [largely] convert his/her own corsair force, that's really a shame. With that said, if anybody still wants this to be done, I'll be doing it for myself. I'd appreciate any ideas/thoughts/opinions anyone has, particularly if they've been inspired with some of the new rules/fluff that came out for Eldar Corsairs.