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Author Topic: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*  (Read 279 times)

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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« on: October 30, 2020, 03:02:36 PM »
We all know how great of a show this is.  I just finished watching the premier of season two and I wasn't disappointed.

Without giving anything away, having a canon reveal that Star Wars fans have been waiting decades for?  Yes please!!!
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2020, 06:37:06 PM »
Always good to see our friend from Guatemala again.
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Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2020, 08:41:40 AM »
Ye man, it's a heckin' great ride.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2020, 10:12:08 AM »
While I have enjoyed the series thus far, I think I'm probably the only person who thought "The Heiress" (last week's episode) was just a straight-up poor episode of television.

I get why the Star Wars superfans liked it--it featured a key character from another Star Wars show and she was super cool--but my problem is this: I do not watch this show to see characters from other Star Wars shows. The show is called The Mandalorian and I'm in it to see the Mandalorian. Not those other Mandalorians. The main guy--the main character of the show.

And in that one? He was window dressing--an afterthought. The Owls and their boss didn't need him for their transport heist. He barely contributed (I just don't believe they couldn't figure out how to handle those repeating blasters on their own). The conflict in the episode was not related to his own conflict (caring for and returning the child). We, the audience who has not watched Clone Wars, have no idea what the Darksaber is (a black lightsaber the bad guy has, I guess) and, more importantly, have no actual reason we should care.

Mando was holding the idiot-ball for this whole episode. The man who slew a Kyatt Dragon should have been able to slay that beast in the water. The guy with a jet-pack should be able to get out of the cage. The killer bounty hunter that has saved the Child from a thousand other foes should be the one to save the child again, not left gasping for breath on the deck. The guy who has taken out umpteen-million brutes didn't need to be "rescued" by the other Mandalorians.

And then, when his life's code is challenged (yay! Potential conflict!) it goes exactly nowhere.

It was really clear the writers for this episode found those characters from that other show to be cooler than Mando in his own show, and that really irritates me. Not to mention that the "danger" in this episode was barely present, the conflict completely tangential to the Mandalorian's interests, and the resolution entirely unsatisfying.

Okay, rant done. Haven't seen this week's episode yet; hoping it's better. Yes, generally I enjoy the program, thank you.

Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2020, 02:25:46 PM »
I totally understand your point, Wyddr. I've seen others express similar views.

I'm a bit torn. I kinda feel like Episode 2 was a bit of a nothing-episode. I don't mind monster/villain of the week (I actually really like it), but it just felt like a stopgap between other events. Episode 3 was a lot more varied and interesting, but as you say, the Mandalorian himself was kinda demoted to second fiddle, and a lot of it hinged on you being into other pieces of SW media.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2020, 02:45:49 PM »
I didn't like "The Passenger" very much, either, but at least Mando had things to do and there was a clear conflict he was engaged in resolving and so on. Did the episode need to exist? No, absolutely not. Was the deus ex machina at the end an earned moment? No, it very much was not. But it was okay for what it was.

This is very much a monster of the week type of show--it has been that from the beginning. The desire from a segment of the viewing audience to make it into something with a well defined serial structure I think will lead to the show's eventual downfall. It's gone from being edgy and stylish to being muddled and boring, and the thing that's causing that is their refusal to commit to a mode.

This show should take a few tips from the writers of Avatar: the Last Airbender and allow the show to breathe narratively. Allow the progress of the characters and the overall story arc to be slow and keep the primary focus on the A-plot for the episode itself and use that conflict to force slow character growth. Instead, they're trying to force it, and it won't work.

Which is why they had that objectively stupid scene in the cockpit of the Imperial transport where Mandalorian A was beating up some Imperial and screaming "WHERE IS THE DARKSABER" while Mando and Mandalorian B pull back on the control sticks and Mandalorian C...just stands there.

If you didn't know what the Darksaber is (or even if you do), then there is nothing in that scene that is remotely interesting. It also fully cements my argument that Mando was completely superfluous, since there was a whole extra Mandalorian just sort of standing there, watching the other two right the ship. It was a forced scene, and notably so, only to play fan service to fans of other SW properties.

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2020, 05:19:02 PM »
See, I disagree on that. 

If someone has watched the show from the beginning, and has no other experience with the greater Star Wars universe, then I think that enough was added to the story to keep up the intrigue.

What are the things we have learned from the previous season?

1)  This is the way
2)  Mandalorians never take their helmets off because of their creed
3)  Moff Gideon has an awesome lightsaber that is a different style compared to what everyone is familiar with

For those familiar with Star Wars lore, there are a lot of gaps missing that didn't make sense at the end of season one.  We had The Clone Wars and Rebels showing us plenty of Mandalorians with their helmets off, so why this new fascination with helmets that came out of no where?  For those unfamiliar with the lore, that is covered by "This is the way."

Now, enter Bo-Katan and her posse, and we find out that not only are there multiple sects of Mandalorians, but that Dinn Djarin is part of a breakaway sect.  Yeah, those that know can make the connection that the "Children of the Watch" are the remnants of the Deathwatch, but it's an added layer to Mandalorian society that wasn't explored before.

As for them hunting for the Darksaber, I don't think you give the general populace enough credit.  Bo-Katan explains that she was part of the ruling family of Mandalore / was the ruler of Mandalore during the Purge; and that she needs something the Empire took from her to reclaim control of Mandalore.  When she's interrogating the guy about the Darksaber, it's clear that a) this is the thing that the Empire took from her, and b) that is clearly the Lightsaber that Gideon has.

We are too early in the season, and possibly even the show, to say that this scene was paying lip service to fans.  It set Dinn on a path to bring the child to Ashoka, which is something that likely won't pan out until the end of the season; but it also set up that the Mandalorians are fighting to return to their home and regain control of their planet.  This could be the episode that is establishing story arcs for future seasons when they opt to pursue the retaking of Mandalore.



Frankly, when you consider that Star Wars is one of the most popular franchises in existence, it makes sense that they are paying some lip service.  Where I see things is that they are acknowledging that not everything is it's own entity.  It all folds into the overarching Star Wars umbrella, but the stories are connected within the universe.  If you look at Clone Wars and Rebels, they really spent the first season being different branches of a story.  When they brought Ashoka and Maul back into the story, it became clear that Rebels was a continuation of the story being told in Clone Wars; just from a different perspective.  The same thing is happening here.  It's still the story that was told from Clone Wars to Rebels, but now it is being told through the eyes of the Mandalorian(s).
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2020, 07:01:48 PM »
I've got a lot (a *lot*) of disagreements with what you just said, but I'll condense it to this:

Even if I grant that an audience unfamiliar with Clone Wars and Rebels would understand the nuance they are trying to show about Mandalorians (which they have not, I would argue), the problem here is not comprehension, it is investment.

The story of the Darksaber and the ruling house of Mandalore are not inherently interesting. They are only interesting insofar as they are related to the characters that we care about. This is true, by the way, about all plots in all stories.

The Darksaber/ruler of Mandalore thing, at this moment, has no effect on Mando (and I don't call him by his true name because it's only been spoken once and I don't remember it, which is sort of corollary to what I'm talking about here). Consider this:

1) Mando has never seen the Darksaber.
2) Mando has never been to or expressed an interest in going to Mandalore.
3) Moff Gideon was defeated last season and we haven't heard from him since.
4) None of the above is apparently relevant to protecting the Child or completing his quest, which is Mando's primary objective, next to maintaining his personal code (and are therefore the things the audience is most invested in).

Now, it is entirely possible that they could make any or all of that stuff important to Mando and, therefore, important to the story, but they haven't. That is where I get annoyed, because it's just lazy storytelling! Relying on secondary characters from other shows to have conversations with one another and just presume the audience will be interested b/c they're fans of that other thing is so, so lazy. amphetamine parrot like that is why Rise of Skywalker was so abysmally bad, why the JJ Abrams Star Trek reboots were just so-so, and why I find Doctor Who fandom so impenetrable - they are coasting on the actually good stories better storytellers told elsewhere.

Offline magenb

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2020, 04:53:20 AM »
it needs someone who has a bit of military knowledge, so you don't get a bunch of elite trrops standing around watching the ticking bomb.. or people punching metal around with their bare hands... or having traps that are so immediately obvious that my son calls them out..

but hey, it still better than the last 3 things they called movies :)

Offline Wyddr

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2020, 06:24:53 AM »
Oh, the Idiot Ball sees a *lot* of use in that show, for sure. I mean, Stromtroopers have always been terrible, but now they're just jokes. And the frustrating thing is the show insists upon making us think they're dangerous.

My favorite episodes have all been the ones featuring no stromtroopers. I just can't take them seriously anymore.

Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2020, 10:03:41 PM »
I'm not a fan of the self-aware "ha ha stormtroopers are bad shots" thing either.

The bad aim is a cinema trope that you can find in lots of movies. It was fine for fans to joke about it, but it does not need explaining or rectifying in-universe.

As usual, I have to admit that I mostly just enjoy myself watching these. I have my quibbles, but it's a fun romp, so I try not to overthink it. Admittedly, the Star Wars writers having no sense of scale of time and space makes it a bit difficult, but I manage.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2020, 10:25:21 PM »
In that last episode, they point out that the Imperial Base is, like, on the total other side of the planet and so they...drive there in a speeder?

They really aren't trying that hard.

I do agree--I'm having fun. I do feel, though, that the show is gradually veering towards asking us to take it more seriously, and I think that is ultimately a bad idea.

Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 01:11:02 PM »
Yes, driving from Canada to Argentina in a car over the course of what seems like an afternoon was... weird.

EDIT: As is, of course, the repeating theme of an entire planet having like 500-odd people living there, and traveling between star system without going over the speed of light, but that last one I suspect lots of people will handwave more easily because it's more abstract to many.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:12:37 PM by Sir_Godspeed »

Offline Wyddr

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 01:20:34 PM »
I've pretty firmly stood by the assertion that Star Wars has never, ever made one whit of sense, so I try not to give it trouble for "realism" issues. There's too many to count, anyway.

The problem is, though, that they need to keep the story engaging enough so that the audience doesn't notice. I've been noticing more and more lately, which is a bad sign.

Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 01:23:11 PM »
I've been around too many people who worship and obsess over Star Wars to easily sit down and go "oh yeah, it's all nonsense", but I'm trying to do it more.

I mean, I'm a Warhammer fan, so I've got experience.

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 04:09:46 PM »
Way to perfectly summarise my feelings on Star Wars too.  Itís both brilliant and ridiculous. ;D

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 09:01:19 PM »
I've been around too many people who worship and obsess over Star Wars to easily sit down and go "oh yeah, it's all nonsense", but I'm trying to do it more.

I mean, I'm a Warhammer fan, so I've got experience.

Oh yeah, complete nonsense!

Stepping outside of the Falcon in the mouth of a giant space worm that apparently has an atmosphere?  "If they did go to hyperspeed, they'd be on the other side of the galaxy by now!"  Ezra and Kanaan riding Space Whales?

beslubberin' Ewoks... lol
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
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Offline magenb

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 09:18:51 PM »
its bad/lazy writing to dive into a universe without reading any of the lore, they dont need to read everything, even one of the old RPG book has more than enough info on why they should stop doing things like making storm troopers cannon fodder.

Instead get the EA treatment of just reskinning something else and slapping a <insert franchise> sticker on it.

I do wish they would move into the hour long episodes though, the pacing and sense of time for things would improve, instead of, oh she brought me food, maybe I should retire here lol.

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Re: The Mandalorian --- *potential spoilers*
« Reply #18 on: Today at 06:22:26 AM »
I personally hate having the Stormtroopers as cannon fodder.  It actually lessens the heroes abilities and standing imo (oh you can kill hordes of bucket heads?  So what?) and makes me wonder how the Empire actually held anything.

A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back had it spot on imo; stormtroopers are introduced blasting their way into the ship like pros.  They then blocked off and contained the heroes in the prison block forcing them to go down the garbage chute before letting the heroes escape without making it look like they let them escape (as per orders).  Then thereís the Battle of Hoth; crushing curb stomp defeat for the rebels.

It was on Endor that things started to go south...beslubberin g Ewoks lol.

I have noticed though that in The Mandalorian they actually do hit Mando a lot of the time...itís just that armour of his is too damn good for their blasters lol.

 


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