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Offline Calamity

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The Big 40k Announcement
« on: May 23, 2020, 10:30:31 AM »
So Iím assuming that youíve all seen the news?  :)

Iím pretty excited myself.  Iíve been bitten by the bug yet again.  My wallet is in trouble!  ;D

Offline Dread

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2020, 11:35:31 AM »
I've been through 7 editions, eh, so what's another one, I guess. Not trying to be a downer just I have so many worthless books now and my newest 40k rule book hasn't even lost its fresh smell yet. I'll remain optimistic. The video they put up with the sisters and necrons is amazing for sure.
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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2020, 01:39:02 PM »
Well, Necrons, you now have my money and my devotion, in time :).
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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2020, 03:49:16 PM »
I'm encouraged by the note saying they won't be invalidating any codexes, so that's nice.

It does seem that every time I'm about to get around to doing Thousand Sons again, we get an edition change that nerfs the amphetamine parrot out of an already weak force.

Offline Cavalier

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2020, 09:50:39 PM »
9th edition is phenomenal. I've loved 8th edition but 9th brings back so much of the stuff I missed, cleans the game up, speeds things up very, very significantly, more flavor, and the Crusade campaign system is amazing and the only way I want to play now. I cant say enough good things about it. Its been a joy to play, cleaner, more tactical depth, faster and deeper thematic elements. Plus official, very robust rules for campaign play. I've loved it

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2020, 11:22:31 PM »
Iím excited.

As my posts said, I was thinking about getting back into 40k lately. This makes it seem like an outstanding time to do so!

Although all the cool new models and rules is gong to give me a big case of army-choice-paralysis again, Iím afraid.

Iím getting around it for now by just starting a kill team of Howling Griffons. That gives me a project to work on while figuring out which to -really- spend money on!

I really wish they could go back to armor values and siding. Doesnít seem to be in the cards, but any good rule fixing is always welcome, assuming they arenít changing just for the sake of change.

Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2020, 12:08:42 AM »
I was about to say it felt like 8th ed. wasn't that old, but then I looked up the age of each edition, and 3-4 years is about average, it seems.

So here's a question to the old-timers: is powercreep inevitable with stuff like this? Or does powercreep tend to happen more DURING editions, with the release of new codices and models they want to sell, as opposed to on an edition-to-edition basis?

Offline Temperance

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2020, 09:34:30 AM »
In my experience (which doesnít include the most recent few editions), a new edition isnít about power creep so much as simply changing whatís powerful (and, often, a points decrease allowing people to buy, Er, bring more models).

Some stuff will get better, some worse. If s generally healthy to mix things up; lest we get stuck with an all-assault or all-shooting meta forever.

I guess, ideally, it would be perfectly balanced and everything would be equally viable forever. But in reality thatís clearly just wishful thinking.


Personally, I wonder what Primaris marines will do now that their whole range is out.

The most popular army is, generally, going to end up a bit more elite with a few less models o would think.

If wonder if that will make the currently ďeliteĒ eldar aspect warriors look very underwhelming, and how that will feel. Or if necron warriors will now look like a shambling undead horde in comparison. And I really wonder how todayís present horde armies will feel.

It almost feels to me like sisters are taking the place marines had. Thereís nothing wrong with that, and it gives them even more character, but I donít think theyíll ever become ďtheĒ main army, and I think it could be weird to have the new ďaverageĒ actually be really elite.

Not necessarily bad at all. But maybe weird.

Power creep could always end up making Primaris feel very average though, somehow. Although thatís a scary thought.

Offline Cavalier

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2020, 11:42:53 AM »
I dont really think in 8th edition the issue has been power creep. There were 2 books that were out of line with everything else, the Knights codex and the the 2nd Marine codex was a mistake and the big FAQ's to radically changed the way they played and has brought them largely back down to earth. They are still top-tier but its anyones game really, at least if you look at tournament numbers before the lockdown. Tyranids, Drukhari, Genestealer Cult, Sisters someone even won a GT with Harlequins.

And honestly the first Marine codex was a mistake too, as just a few months later the standard was sort of set, with Imperial Guard, Drukhari and Harlequins for very solid entries that have been competitive in all arenas of play all edition.

Also some books are simply easier to harness than others. Even before their Psychic Awakening release, Harlequins were out for 2 years before anyone really got a handle on them but they have been excellent since day 1.

Also the writers do not amp up the power on new units to sell models. The terrible state of the Marine codex when it first came out is proof enough of that. Same with Sisters which is one of the biggest releases ever, its a very balanced book that is actually very difficult to play. Same with all the new Ork stuff that came out last year. Hardly anyone plays those units because the rules are very sub-par.

IMO what we are experiencing are sort of 40k butterfly effects, where each new release, faq etc. have big impacts on the effectiveness of certain army builds, units etc. You gotta remember this model of constantly balancing the rules is very new for 40k, so shifts in power are bound to happen.
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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2020, 01:51:05 PM »
9th edition is phenomenal. I've loved 8th edition but 9th brings back so much of the stuff I missed, cleans the game up, speeds things up very, very significantly, more flavor, and the Crusade campaign system is amazing and the only way I want to play now. I cant say enough good things about it. Its been a joy to play, cleaner, more tactical depth, faster and deeper thematic elements. Plus official, very robust rules for campaign play. I've loved it

That's what people always say when a new edition is released.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2020, 03:38:02 PM »
So here's a question to the old-timers: is powercreep inevitable with stuff like this? Or does powercreep tend to happen more DURING editions, with the release of new codices and models they want to sell, as opposed to on an edition-to-edition basis?

A new edition doesn't bring in power creep.  My view is that it's a consolidation of rules that have been implemented, while also giving the opportunity to make bigger changes that need more fundamental changes to work.

Power creep was a big issue from 3rd to 7th edition.  A new codex would be released and, generally speaking, it would be stronger than anything else on the market.  8th edition was the most fun I have had playing 40k in a long time because, for the most part, the rules were roughly in line with each other.  When things got out of hand, GW stepped in to make the necessary adjustments instead of letting them sit until the new edition.

My favourite part of the past edition was that GW saw how things were being used and made changes.  Certain abilities that were too powerful received necessary changes, where in the past they would have held on to them until they received a new codex in the next edition.  People started spamming individual units instead of making cohesive armies, so GW updated how to design an army.

Yeah, it leads to a lot of record keeping to be aware of everything that has changed, but at least the changes were being made instead of being told to go pound sand and deal with it for another 3 years.  That's why I'm not bothered by this edition coming.  Bring everything back to a basic starting point, and build from there.
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Offline magenb

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2020, 06:51:57 PM »
Given all the current codexes will be playable from the the start, its not ripping out any of the elements that would actually balance the game correctly.

For clarification, by balance I mean any two armies should be able to face off in a straight up kill every thing fight and either side should have a fair chance of winning regardless of going first or second.

Unless GW strips back the game back to the CAD system with no allies, then they are going to have a really bad time trying to reach that sort of balance. There are just too many combinations.

Then to add fuel to the fire, add brand new units (rather than updated sculpts), it would be a nightmare trying to get a balanced system out. Which inevitability leaves you with an unstable gaming system. In the video game scene, this is technically less problematic, updates are free, but even then, it is extremely difficult to maintain players when it happens and often leads to the game basically dying out.


GW has introduced errors into the system, perhaps they are not intended to act as sales drivers, but some of these like the dreadnaught that can offload wounds and get yet another chance of saving against them, are just obviously broken. There does seem to be some cashed up powergamers that take full advantage of this, which creates a pay to win scenario, which is a good way to tank your game.

It all adds up to a rather toxic environment regardless of how the game currently plays now. The business side of GW isn't helping this, take the current price hike of really old sculpts and rather recent sculpts in the middle of a massive global economic down turn..


I hope I'm wrong, but I'm expecting more of the same from 9th ed.

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2020, 09:17:46 PM »
9th edition is phenomenal. I've loved 8th edition but 9th brings back so much of the stuff I missed, cleans the game up, speeds things up very, very significantly, more flavor, and the Crusade campaign system is amazing and the only way I want to play now. I cant say enough good things about it. Its been a joy to play, cleaner, more tactical depth, faster and deeper thematic elements. Plus official, very robust rules for campaign play. I've loved it

That's what people always say when a new edition is released.

Sorry man, but thats just not true. I wasn't ready to let go of 2nd edition, I didnt like 5th, or 7th edition at launch either. I've played 9th ed for a long time now and I love it.
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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2020, 12:30:20 PM »
I've played since third edition. 7th edition has been the best edition for game balance without any doubt.

Yes, things at launch might sometimes be a bit bonkers, but games workshop does a great job and wrangling in the biggest issues.

It's a big game however, with a lot of moving parts. It's also not a game designed for tournament play, so it won't ever be 100% balanced. But,  it'll be close enough.

In previous editions, there was rarely faqs, and if something was absolutely bonkers, you had to just live with it until the codex got updated in 3-5 years.

As an aos player, I loved 1st edition, but 2nd edition cleaned up the game and did a great job on improving the game with subtle but important changes. I forsee the same with 9th. They've had three/four years to collect data and see how the game played, and this will be less a new edition, but a more polished version of 8th.
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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2020, 12:52:00 PM »
Given all the current codexes will be playable from the the start, its not ripping out any of the elements that would actually balance the game correctly.
Not quite.  By allowing people to continue using their current codex, what that is saying is that the core mechanics of the game hasn't changed.  In this case, the core mechanics would be the stat lines and weapon stats.  It is the same reason you could have (theoretically) used a 4th edition codex in 7th edition (provided I'm remembering correctly and it was 4th that introduced the USRs lol).

The reason they had the Indexes at the start of 8th was because they changed how the stat lines were used, and how weapons worked.  It's the same as when 3rd was brought out and the rulebook had super basic codexes in it.  You needed something to play with while you waited on codexes to be released.

Now, as had been the case between 3rd and 7th, you have a codex that will work within the current rules set until it gets updated.  Rest assured, the updated codexes will be coming that will truly bring balance to the Force game
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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2020, 05:29:58 PM »
From a lore perspective, on the NecronsÖ
My first thought seeing that picture, is we are seeing the Necron military now. Interesting.  :)

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2020, 11:32:35 PM »
9th edition is phenomenal. I've loved 8th edition but 9th brings back so much of the stuff I missed, cleans the game up, speeds things up very, very significantly, more flavor, and the Crusade campaign system is amazing and the only way I want to play now. I cant say enough good things about it. Its been a joy to play, cleaner, more tactical depth, faster and deeper thematic elements. Plus official, very robust rules for campaign play. I've loved it

That's what people always say when a new edition is released.

I very much trust Cav here. If you didn't know he's a play tester and has been playing 9th for a while it seems.

His comments makes me very hopeful and I trust what he says.

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2020, 11:41:51 PM »
So what do people think about the newly revealed Necron models?

I think some of them will take some time to get used to. Not the new Necron Warrior, which is basically the same but new, but some of the walkers and weirder units. A lot of them feel... slightly incongruent with the older units, if that makes any sense. I'm not sure myself, there's just something that clashes visually for me when I saw pictures of them together with the Monoliths. They just look slightly different enough for me to not feel like the aesthetics are entirely cohesive. Maybe it's the spindliness and tubes and wires everywhere on some of them... not sure.

Again, it might just be that they're new.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/24/warhammer-40000-more-models-revealedgw-homepage-post-3/

Offline magenb

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2020, 02:00:00 AM »
I've played since third edition. 7th edition has been the best edition for game balance without any doubt.

because flying demon princes with 2+ re-rollable saves that can unleash devastating psychic powers and even position swap with another prince is the hall mark of a balanced game... 7th _mechanics_ were fine, it was the formations and the utter cheese in the later codexes that almost killed the game.


Not quite.  By allowing people to continue using their current codex, what that is saying is that the core mechanics of the game hasn't changed.  In this case, the core mechanics would be the stat lines and weapon stats. 

They have already said Command Points are staying and getting a boost, so I'm taking it that strats are staying. It's an interesting mechanic, but along with detachment army building it is best left in narrative games where balancing isn't as big of an issue.

I would also consider mortal wounds being a core mechanic, having an attack that is basically unsavable and that can be spammed is on the nose, you had scores of people complaining about D strength weapons in the previous editions. AoS had this toned down, but really the game can do without it entirely.

I'll give it a fair go using the free rules, but really they can thank people like Cav for that as GW is acting more like EA and Disney at this point lol.




So what do people think about the newly revealed Necron models?

The spider units look cool, but don't really fit the slow methodical army idea very well. Given how hit and miss melee has been in 8th, I hope this means they have fixed melee combat up in 9th as these could ad a fun new dynamic to Necrons. 

The new warriors faces look cartoony in a few shots, this might be more to do with image/paint though. I'm torn on the guass rifle change, the green rod is just iconic. I kind of hope they at least have the barrel being a separate piece so fans that love the look can easily swap on in.

« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 02:09:58 AM by magenb »

Offline Calamity

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2020, 09:01:52 AM »
9th edition is phenomenal. I've loved 8th edition but 9th brings back so much of the stuff I missed, cleans the game up, speeds things up very, very significantly, more flavor, and the Crusade campaign system is amazing and the only way I want to play now. I cant say enough good things about it. Its been a joy to play, cleaner, more tactical depth, faster and deeper thematic elements. Plus official, very robust rules for campaign play. I've loved it

That's what people always say when a new edition is released.

I very much trust Cav here. If you didn't know he's a play tester and has been playing 9th for a while it seems.

His comments makes me very hopeful and I trust what he says.

I forgot Cav was a play tester!  :o

With that in mind Iím feeling very confident about 9th edition now.  :)

So what do people think about the newly revealed Necron models?

I think some of them will take some time to get used to. Not the new Necron Warrior, which is basically the same but new, but some of the walkers and weirder units. A lot of them feel... slightly incongruent with the older units, if that makes any sense. I'm not sure myself, there's just something that clashes visually for me when I saw pictures of them together with the Monoliths. They just look slightly different enough for me to not feel like the aesthetics are entirely cohesive. Maybe it's the spindliness and tubes and wires everywhere on some of them... not sure.

Again, it might just be that they're new.

http://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/24/warhammer-40000-more-models-revealedgw-homepage-post-3/

You mean the War Of The World style walkers?  I liked them initially...but you have a point.  They do look odd when compared to the monolith and such. 

 


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