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Author Topic: The Big 40k Announcement  (Read 2116 times)

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Offline Cavalier

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #60 on: June 9, 2020, 12:31:57 PM »
I actually haven't. Leading the Narrative Playtest team, my job is making sure the lore translates in game mechanics to the tabletop, thats about as much as my NDA will allow to elaborate on.

I have pretty strong feelings on this one. I know that the ITC is taking GW's lead on that choice, and I understand why. I think its easier on new people who can on game on their kitchen tables with smaller mats, it syncs up with Kill Team which allows you to just push two of those mats/boards together which is very fan friendly and its easier on FLGS and events in terms of space. All of this is very much customer friendly which is a major theme of everything GW has been doing. They are really trying to make it easier on the gamers and not have it be this massive investement of resources just to play games. This applies to new and old gamers and the biggest sign of this is yet to come.

But I honestly have zero intention of playing on a smaller gaming surface. I actually feel like the game for the first time in decades has breathing room. There is a feeling out process, as the table is not packed to the brim with models, movement and range are really important on a larger gaming table with less models and its not smash face from word-go with all weapons in range as soon as the game starts. And aesthetically it just look better

I'm not against it, its just not what I'm going to do. I also hope that other 40k players realize they do not need to be in consensus with each other. A plurality of play and ideas is so good for the game and that is also a big theme for the game now. The game is designed and thoroughly tested to play at low points and high points, and if you play Crusade you are HIGHLY encouraged to play at lower points values in the early goings and those games are brilliant!

So no I've not played on the smaller size mat, and its not something I plan on doing either. I think the game plays much better on the 6x4
« Last Edit: June 9, 2020, 12:33:33 PM by Cavalier »
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #61 on: June 9, 2020, 01:23:33 PM »
I can see the table size from both perspectives.

Most of my games rarely use the full 6' length.  The only time it really gets used is when someone is playing a hoard army, and those are few and far between.  Most games are primarily played within 5'

It'll be interesting to see how my LGS adapts.  We have 6' boards, but we may cut 1' off and just use that as the reserves / dead pile area.  Or we might not adapt and just keep it at 6'.  It's really hard to say.
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Offline magenb

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #62 on: June 10, 2020, 01:07:47 AM »
I have not seen a GW store with 6x4 table in Aus in a rather long time, most are 4x4, which is fine for an introduction game, but really limits the battle sizes and causes problems for mobile armies that need breathing room. Most of the GW stores here have back to back 4x4 tables, so it gets super cramped, really off putting.

Since Tournament's are already looking into the smaller size, I don't blame them, it means potentially quicker games, more tables and therefore more players and potentially more $$. I suspect that non-GW store owners would also find this attractive but with the added bonus of having tournament players wanting this size to practice on.

I guess I can see with no technical reason for stores having to go max size, more will go the cheaper route and down size.


6x4 has been a bit of an odd size table wise, but a couple of 6 foot folding tables is less than a box of Banshee's now. Hindsight and all, but they could have just made the kill team boards divide evenly into the 6x4 format as well. If GW was really concerned about lowering the entry bar for new players, then you know, making the game cheaper than buying a video game console would be a better idea lol... Interesting observation though, video games have become cheaper than buying half a unit. Yet we all still throw our money at them bahahaha.



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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #63 on: June 10, 2020, 09:46:45 AM »
My local GW store has a bunch of 2x4 tables, which are moved around to make painting, or gaming tables. I will say, that I always loved playing smaller games on a 4x4, more than a big game on a 6x4. Takes less time, and always feels more tactical.

I've always wanted to get the cool Moon Base/Azyr ruins game board boxes GW sells, but the dimensions were always a bit off from regular gameplay, now seems like a great time to get those, as they fold up small, and can be broken down into the different gameplay sizes.

I'm pretty ambivalent about moving away from the 6x4. I do have a 6x4 fat mat, but I've never used it. I do like how with the Kill team/warcry boards, you can have an easy to set up, and customizable board size.

Having a 6x4 table is still great though, as now you have room to put dice/ models off the play surface, which I'll really enjoy.


 If GW was really concerned about lowering the entry bar for new players, then you know, making the game cheaper than buying a video game console would be a better idea lol

You don't need to spend $400+ to play Warhammer. Games Workshop has playstyles without as much investment (killteam, soon combat patrol come to mind). It's pretty easy to start playing for less than $100.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #64 on: June 10, 2020, 11:18:03 AM »
The changes to Heavy weapons, and vehicles being able to shoot in CC is a huge game changer for me.

Baal Predators will be absolutely gross now.

My Taurox Primes can actually transport my Scions instead of sitting in place all game to by anti-tank gun turrets.

My Eldar become mobile again with more weapon options. I'm looking forward to being able to run Star Cannons on War Walkers, non-Saim-Han Vypers and even Wave Serpents.

Offline Calamity

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #65 on: June 10, 2020, 12:48:31 PM »
I haven’t been keeping up with developments.  Now I’m sad.  :P

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2020, 01:41:41 PM »
The changes to Heavy weapons, and vehicles being able to shoot in CC is a huge game changer for me.

Baal Predators will be absolutely gross now.

My Taurox Primes can actually transport my Scions instead of sitting in place all game to by anti-tank gun turrets.

My Eldar become mobile again with more weapon options. I'm looking forward to being able to run Star Cannons on War Walkers, non-Saim-Han Vypers and even Wave Serpents.

I am loving the penalty to hit only applies to infantry.  For my Ravenwing, it makes them much more effective while maintaining mobility.  It will also save on Command Points as I don't need to use Heroes of the Chapter to get a Warlord trait to negate the movement penalty.

Also, my Plasma Cannons are happy now!  A unit has 6+ models in it?  MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
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Offline magenb

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #67 on: June 10, 2020, 06:48:53 PM »
You don't need to spend $400+ to play Warhammer. Games Workshop has playstyles without as much investment (killteam, soon combat patrol come to mind). It's pretty easy to start playing for less than $100.

I'm referencing the cost of getting into the 40k game, not the 40k universe. KT is actually the expensive way to get into the the 40k game, as you have to buy additional rules sets, codex, etc.



Tanks not having a penalty for moving and shooting makes sense as they stop to shoot. Although, it does seem a little more real if fliers that are not hovering hard a neg to their shooting.

Offline Cavalier

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #68 on: June 11, 2020, 05:49:53 AM »
Yeah Blast Weapons are great. I can say from experience its another reason the game is a lot faster. The games in my experience is built around mech MSU and its a much faster and tactically tight game. Most of 8th I played against just mobs and mobs of infantry, primarily because vechiles were just not reliable. Not so anymore.

That being said I'm still playing with a good deal of 9 man units, whether it be scatter laser Windriders (who can move and shoot freely) at 9 strong, or my Shining Spears at 9 strong.

The way I made this work is keeping them in reserves, taking out the blast weapons (or as many as I can) in the turns before they drop. This becomes a fun game within a game, and makes for some very tense moments as you really want those units coming in as soon as possible.

I failed to mention this previously but I thought it was worth noting, that in regards to Reserves, close-quarters specialists that have previously been to work intensive, as opposed to their long range counterparts are really very good now. Units like Fire Dragons, Wraithguard, combi-melta Sternguard which I think will be really popular, guarding the flanks for vehicles coming in out of reserves. The reason being, is they aren't shielded behind multiple layers of infantry. Parking those units in a handy transport like a Wave Serpent, Falcon or even a Razorback is really useful. Since vehicles can take full advantage of their movement and still maintain their accuracy, you can still get good firing angles, while protecting your flanks against in coming reserves. If you've got infantry popping up the flanks to you can obviously have close-combat units in there too. The main point being you dont need to bypass your opponents multi-layered front-lines to get cloee-quarters specialists into the fray now. Its really a lot of fun
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Offline Partninja

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #69 on: June 11, 2020, 10:42:17 AM »
I really wish they'd preview these new reserves rules because I'm not quite getting what you're putting down without reference.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #70 on: June 11, 2020, 03:05:08 PM »
So, am I alone in thinking that the new rules for Blast weapons, while better, are not really that impressive? A minimum of 3 shots is more-or-less what you'd be averaging anyway with most blasts. I can see how it's pretty great for Plasma Cannons and Thunderfire Cannons and stuff, but beyond that? Eh. My Basilisk is still riding the shelf here.

Offline Myen'Tal

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #71 on: June 11, 2020, 03:12:53 PM »
So, am I alone in thinking that the new rules for Blast weapons, while better, are not really that impressive? A minimum of 3 shots is more-or-less what you'd be averaging anyway with most blasts. I can see how it's pretty great for Plasma Cannons and Thunderfire Cannons and stuff, but beyond that? Eh. My Basilisk is still riding the shelf here.

Minimum of 3 shots for 10 models. Anything over 10 gets the maximum shots, I believe?
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #72 on: June 11, 2020, 03:59:56 PM »
So, am I alone in thinking that the new rules for Blast weapons, while better, are not really that impressive? A minimum of 3 shots is more-or-less what you'd be averaging anyway with most blasts. I can see how it's pretty great for Plasma Cannons and Thunderfire Cannons and stuff, but beyond that? Eh. My Basilisk is still riding the shelf here.
You're right in that three shots is the average for a d6 blast weapon.  It's not a super powerful rule, but it makes blast weapons more reliable.

Apparently there is some confusion going around because the rule that was previewed said the weapon gets a minimum 3, whereas on the stream they said you get a minimum 3 per dice rolled.

Honestly, I look at this and want to include two more minimum size plasma cannon dev squads in my Dark Angels

Everything they've previewed so far has made me excited for this edition.  There hasn't been a single bad rule so far.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #73 on: June 11, 2020, 04:52:50 PM »
I'm liking the terrain rules. Makes things much slicker and less confusing. Wasn't as huge of a change as I was expecting but I like the way it works now.

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #74 on: June 11, 2020, 06:29:19 PM »
Agreed, I like how they've done the terrain.  Especially having the one trait that if it's tall enough, you can't see through it, but you can see into it.

No more of this "let's play ITC where the bottom floor blocks LOS crap"

If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
I knew I had fans!!!

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"Dark Angels are Traitors" is the 40k equivalent of Flat Earthers.  You can provide all of the proof you want that says otherwise, but people just can't let it go...

Offline magenb

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #75 on: June 11, 2020, 06:41:38 PM »
I really wish they'd preview these new reserves rules because I'm not quite getting what you're putting down without reference.

I'm guessing, but it sounds like the old outflank rule, where you can bring units in from the side of the table instead of your own deployment zone.

so if try to move your tank up on a flank, say within 12 of a board edge, Fire dragons could pop out of no where and nuke it. You'll have to pay very close attention to what people are holding in reserve and know their threat ranges.. basically GW wants you to move everything into the middle of the board so its a mass offering to Khorne :)


Its sounding like you'll be able to make charges from reserves too.





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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #76 on: June 11, 2020, 09:15:00 PM »
So, am I alone in thinking that the new rules for Blast weapons, while better, are not really that impressive? A minimum of 3 shots is more-or-less what you'd be averaging anyway with most blasts. I can see how it's pretty great for Plasma Cannons and Thunderfire Cannons and stuff, but beyond that? Eh. My Basilisk is still riding the shelf here.

Minimum of 3 shots for 10 models. Anything over 10 gets the maximum shots, I believe?

True, true, but *most* (like, vast majority) of the units I face these days are either 10 models or less or 30 models or more. 6 shots (that you have to hit with still) sort of sucks.

This will be great for certain units (LR Executioners, Demolishers, BTs for instance, or anything with Blast d3), but on balance I'm unimpressed. I'd still argue blast weapons are too weak and a lot of units that used to rely on the pie plate or flame template to be relevant are still just *not* relevant.

Offline Cavalier

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #77 on: June 12, 2020, 07:03:20 AM »
Wydrr, I played against IG more than any other faction in my playtesting of 9th and Basilisks are incredible. They are just brutal, as is the Wyvern. I just stopped running larger units that I couldn't reserve or webway because they just got hammered by IG artillery.

It makes them a top priority target. But some of the new terrain rules which weren't featured makes them even better. Cant say more. But blast weapons are a huge deal.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #78 on: June 12, 2020, 08:27:00 AM »
Wydrr, I played against IG more than any other faction in my playtesting of 9th and Basilisks are incredible. They are just brutal, as is the Wyvern. I just stopped running larger units that I couldn't reserve or webway because they just got hammered by IG artillery.

It makes them a top priority target. But some of the new terrain rules which weren't featured makes them even better. Cant say more. But blast weapons are a huge deal.

Well, then I look forward to seeing what else drops. Because 6 shots hitting on 4s? Unimpressive at the best of times.

Offline Cavalier

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Re: The Big 40k Announcement
« Reply #79 on: June 13, 2020, 07:40:34 AM »
6 shots hitting on 4's with virtually unlimited range firing from out of line of sight (with much more LOS blocking terrain available) is great, especially when taken in multiples. Given the strength, AP, d3 damage they are beyond deadly to large units of Marines, Shining Spears, Windriders, Marine bikers or any multi-wound infantry or cavalry units most of which want to be max size for stratagem, psychic power efficiency and to still have punch when losses are taken. When you layer relics, and regimental bonuses Basilisks are fantastic. They are also great against vehicles. I dont see whats not to love.

I've had to deal with them all edition in 8th and they'll be more popular now. All the Guard artillery is incredible.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 07:46:45 AM by Cavalier »
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