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Author Topic: Discussion on LoS  (Read 1511 times)

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Offline TheGreatElder

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Discussion on LoS
« on: December 17, 2019, 06:50:38 PM »
Lets read what the rule book say regarding line of sight during the shooting phase. If I take it literally, I can pratically ALWAYS shoot to an enemy unit, eve in this situation:

I can shoot to an enemy unit that is behind another enemy units, because even if the screening unit  have all models at base contact, i will be always able to see some part of at least one model of the enemy unit behind: the tip of a sword, the tip of a helm... So i can actually fire through entire unit of boys and kill the models of the unit behind it like if the boys unit is not here. Also i can do it without any penalty because the rule book say nothing regarding a penalty for unit behind other units. Yes, the rule book state that "a model can see through models of his own unit, so this seems to implies that he cannot see through models of another units, but this is not the point, because he do not need to see through those models, he need only to see a tip of a model behind the unit, and this is always possible, because models are not rectangual shaped...

This seems stupid to me...


Any advices from veteran players of 8th edition?

Offline magenb

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Re: Discussion on LoS
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2019, 07:34:46 PM »
This seems stupid to me...

<grumpy_old_man>
GW seems to think that the average IQ over the last 20 years has taken a dramatic drop and has now "simplified" the mechanics acordingly, so sadily you'll be saying that fairly often.
</grumpy_old_man>

If you play with friends, just use a house rule to fix it, something like, you have to see their torso/hull for them to be in LoS and you can not shoot through other units unless there is a significant height difference. EG: A unit of guardians is not going to stop a hemlock from shooting, nor would guadians stop a wraithlord from firing heavy weapons.



Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Discussion on LoS
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2019, 09:45:52 PM »
... but this is not the point, because he do not need to see through those models, he need only to see a tip of a model behind the unit, and this is always possible, because models are not rectangual shaped...

I'm sorry, but there are going to be plenty of times that you can not see a model / unit because of intervening units.  To illustrate my point...


You can see the Scout with the Sniper Rifle, right?

How about now...


I don't know what advice you are looking for.  True Line of Sight does away with the confusion that was inherent from systems such as size categories and everything else that GW has done in the past.  Now it is simply a matter of getting down to take a look and see what you see.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Discussion on LoS
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2019, 10:44:14 AM »
GML has the right of it. It is possible to block LOS, just difficult. GW decided at some point (and correctly) that it was more fun shooting at things than not shooting at things, so the rules skew that direction.

If you want to block LOS, you need some big, opaque terrain--buildings with no windows, large hills, shipping containers, and stuff like that.

Also it's pretty common to house rule that things like banners and gun barrels and weapon blades or whatever don't count for LOS. I don't think most players necessarily feel good about shooting your Chapter Master in the back-banner or whatever. 

Offline Partninja

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Re: Discussion on LoS
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2019, 01:17:00 PM »
100% agree with Wyddr.

We don't exactly house rule barrel and banners specifically, but go off of "stated intent". We make it clear that when we move models behind a shipping container or wall that "Hey, im jamming all these guys behind this wall". So if a banner or barrel sticks out my opponent knows the intent was to hide everyone behind said thing and not waste time checking every piece of line of site. Only the base/body of the model will count in that instance.

Offline magenb

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Re: Discussion on LoS
« Reply #5 on: January 8, 2020, 11:44:02 PM »
True Line of Sight does away with the confusion that was inherent from systems such as size categories and everything else that GW has done in the past.  Now it is simply a matter of getting down to take a look and see what you see.

In 5th, LOS was simply from the eye of the model, can you see the body of the target, (it defines what body means very clearly, page 16), it ignores things like guns, banners, wing tips.  This is basically what everyone is recommending to house rule in.

8th however also changed it from being eyes of the model, to well any part of the shooting model can see any part of the target. This is where you get people rotating predator turrets to get impossible shots and rotating it back to hide.

Being able to shoot through your own troops on the same level, is daft, the chances of you hitting your own people is really high. Maybe make it an option, but if the shot misses then you hit friendlies as well, with the number of rerolls now, it probably wouldn't be too bad.
 
Technically firing arc's could also be bundled up to LOS, perhaps this is where some of the grief came in? maybe I just haven't run into "that guy" recently enough, but I don't remember any fights of LOS.

 


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