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Author Topic: 1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission  (Read 444 times)

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Offline Roboknee77

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1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission
« on: June 28, 2019, 02:39:06 AM »
1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission

After our last game, Mccomas wanted to get a battle in with his Iron Hands Space Marines and I was happy to oblige with my orks.  We once again headed to a local gaming store, grabbed a table and had at it.

Iron Hands

Iron Hands Battalion

HQ:
Captain on Bike w/ Thunder Hammer & The Shield Eternal
Techmarine on Bike w/ Chainsword & Combi-Flamer

Troops:
5 Scouts w/ Camo Cloaks
10 Man Tactical Squad w/ Missile Launcher & Flamer
10 Man Tactical Squad w/ Missile Launcher & Flamer

Elites:
Apothecary on Bike w/ Teeth of Terra
3 Company Veterans on Bikes
2 Dreadnaughts w/ Twin Heavy Bolters

Heavy Support:
Thunderfire Cannon

Flyer:
Stormtalon Gunship

Dedicated Transport:
2 Rhinos w/ Hunter-Killer Missile & 2 Storm Bolters

Ork Forces
Bad Moons Battalion

HQ:
Warboss on w/ Attack Squig, Kustom Shoota, Da Killa Klaw, Brutal but Cunning (trait)
Big Mek on w/ Slugga, Choppa, & Kustom Force Field

Troops:
30 Shoota Boyz
30 Shoota Boyz
30 Shoota Boyz

Heavy Support:
2 Smasha Gunz
2 Smasha Gunz
15 Lootas

Fast Attack:
3 Deffkoptas

Bad Moons Battalion

HQ:
Warphead w/ Warpath & Fists of Gork
Weirdboy w/ Da Jump

Troops:
10 Grots
10 Grots
10 Grots


Mission
Mccomas wanted to play another Eternal War mission before trying out Maelstrom missions in 8th, so we randomly rolled for mission and got Retrieval Mission.  We alternated setting up 4 objectives, 1 in a building in the northwest corner, 1 in a building in the southeast corner, 1 in a building in the eastern edge of the map, and the final objective in the open just to the west of the center of the map.

Deployment
Having won placed the last marker Mccomas rolled for deployment and we got Dawn of War.  He chose to deploy his forces in the Southern half of the map, consolidated in the Southeast corner around the objective marker there.  I deployed my orks along the northern edge of the board, mostly directly across from the Iron Hands but with a group of Grots holding the objective in the northwest corner of the map.  Mccomas won the roll off to go first and I failed to seize the initiative.

That doesn't look like a lot of Iron Hands

That's a lot more Orks
Pay no attention to the Grots in the Building

Top of Turn 1
The core of the Iron Hands army (rhinos, dreadnoughts and bikers) advance straight across the battlefield.  The rhinos and dreadnoughts pop smoke and the bikers take cover behind them.  The stormtalon flies forward and targets the squad of boys in the ruins in the northeast corner of the map.  The storm talon, along with fire from the thunderfire cannon and missle launcher from a tac squad, manages to kill 9 boys.  The scout squad targets the Warphead and manage to take 3 wounds off the psyker.

The Iron Hands roll forward and pop smoke (smoke not shown)

Only a few boys go down

Bottom of Turn 1
The orks are happy that the Iron Hands are coming towards them.  The depleted unit of boys, followed by the Warboss and warphead, advance toward the soon to be destroyed Rhinos.  The lootas open fire, taking 90 shots at the 2 rhinos, killing one and almost finishing off the other.  The smashas open up and finish off the second rhino and some of the marines inside that survived the explosions.  The grots, in shocking fashion, manage to kill a marine.  The boyz, urged forward by the Warboss' roar of WAAAGH!, charge the three surviving marines and wipe out two and the third's faith in the emperor fails him, forcing him to withdraw from the battle.

A second group of boyz are jumped behind enemy lines.  Their shooting manages to wipe out one 5 man squad of marines and they charge the techmarine gunner manning the thunderfire cannon and fail to wound him.

Orks 1 (First Blood), Iron Hands 0

Cleaning up after destroying the Rhinos

Boyz behind enemy lines

Top of Turn 2
It's time for the Iron Hands to take their revenge on the savage Orks.  The dreadnoughts lumber toward the boyz in front of them, obliterating 9 boyz with bolter fire before pulverizing the final three boyz into fine paste in close combat.

All the bikes surge forward and target the both units of grots with heavy bolter fire, forever cutting short the grots celebration at killing a marine in the previous round.  Without grots to shield them, the lootas lose four to fire from the Stormtalon.  The scouts again target the warphead and manage to explode his head before too much warp energy would do it for them.  The techmarine gunner falls back to the second floor of the ruin and the tac squad holding the third floor opens fire on the boyz in the back field killing only about 3 boyz.

In close combat, the veterans lose one member to overwatch before killing the solo loota on the ground floor of the ruin.  The rest are out of combat since the bikes can't get to the higher levels of the ruin.  The captain and the techmarine demolish one smasha gun before the Warboss heroically intervenes and pastes the apothecary with Da Killa Klaw while his attack squig enjoys a fine dinner of bike tires.  He then consolidates into the Techmarine, ready for next round.  All in all the Iron hands do some serious damage to the Orks but there are always more boyz.


The aftermath of multiple combats

The boyz are in deep trouble against a dreadnought

Bottom of Turn 2
A group of orks arrive from the tellyporta, coming in near the objective on the eastern edge of the map.  They open fire on the scouts and manage to kill three to avenge the death of the warphead.  The remaining weirdboy smites the Stormtalon for 3 wounds after moving closer to lootas and smasha guns.

The three deffkoptas also arrive from reserve ineffectively shoot at the stormtalon before charging the flyer. Their blades only manage to look cool but also do nothing in combat.

The lootas manage to kill the final two veteran bikers and the smasha guns kill two of the tac marines holding the objective in the southeast corner.  Below the tasc squad, the boys surround the thunderfire cannon and begin the long, hard, multiple round process of demolishing it.  The smasha guns kill off two members of the last tac squad.

Finally, the Warboss proves how killy Da Killa Klaw is by pasting the techmarine biker before setting his sights on the Captain.

The rare aerial close combat

Everybody wants to see the Warlords fight

Top of Turn 3
The Marines are mostly stationary except for the stormtalon and dreadnoughts.  The Stormtalon flies toward the gretchin holding the northwest objective and easily lays waste to the cowardly grots.  One dreadnought moves on the boys that just arrived from the tellyporta and only manages to four total in shooting and assault.  The boys take a few wounds off the nought in retaliation.  The other nought joins the captain in facing the Warboss.  The boss does nothing against the captain but in a fit of rage before dying rips the dreadnought to shreds.  In the southeast corner the boyz continue their slow fight against the thunderfire cannon.  The remaining scouts take aim at the Big Mek and take off half his wounds.  Another smasha gun is destroyed by a missle from the lone surviving tac squad.

Da Boss is Sandwiched between a Nought and a Captain


Orks 1, Iron Hands 1 (Slay the Warlord)

Bottom of Turn 3
Other than the deffkoptas the orks are mostly stationary this round, happily in combat (or happily out of it in the case of the lootas.)  The deffkoptas fly back toward the Captain to try and avenge Da Boss.  The Weirdboy smites the Captain for three wounds while the koptas lose one of their own in combat.

The lootas are ineffective against the stormtalon and the smasha guns miss all their shots at the tac squad.  In combat the the boyz finally manage to destroy the Thunderfire cannon and consolidate up a floor to engage the techmarine gunner.  The tellyported boys finish off the dreadnought and move toward the scouts, and an objective.

Movin' on up...

One dead dreadnought
Koptas on the Captain

Top of Turn 4
The Iron Hands are on the ropes with only a few units remaining.  The stormtalon continues to shine by taking out the lootas, eliminating one ork threat.  The Captain smashes another deffkopta in combat while the techmarine loses a wound to combat against the boys.  The snipers finally miss a target after moving from their perch on the higher levels of a ruin.

Stormtalon returning to finish off the lootas.


Bottom of Turn 4
Things are moving faster now as there are fewer and fewer Iron Hands.  The tellyported boys finish off the scouts with a volume of shoota fire while claiming an objective.  The weirdboy finishes off the Captain with a mighty smite, dealing 6 mortal wounds, that even his cybernetic enhancements can't save him from.  The techmarine gunner takes 2 more wounds from the boyz.

Orks 2 (Slay the Warlord), Iron Hands 1

A few more wounds off the techmarine gunner


Top of Turn 5
The stormtalon hovers in front of the weirdboy and opens fire, vaporizing the psyker and deny me the chance to jump him onto an objective in my turn.  The techmarine gunner finally falls in combat and the boys again consolidate up a floor to engage the last three tac marines and control the objective there.  At this point my opponent concedes.

Say goodbye to the Weirdboy

Zog off, dis is ours!

Final Score:
Orks 8, Iron Hand 1

Post Mortem
This was a fun game overall and my opponent fought well.  In the end the Iron Hands couldn't stand up to the higher number of orks. I was concerned when his bikers got into my gun line but the Warboss being able to heroically intervene was key.  While he finally fell to the Captain, I did learn a valuable lesson about fighting against somebody with an invulnerable save.

It was also a learning experience as some issues in close combat we've never encountered before came up.  First, the two dreadnoughts both assaulted boyz and the first dread wiped them out and then consolidated.  We weren't sure if the second dreadnought could consolidate too since it didn't actually fight in combat.  I thought no, but we rolled off and my opponent one so we let it.  After the game, checking the core book and the errata, I think I was right, since the second dread no longer had a target to fight, it technically was ineligible for the fight phase and thus the consolidate move as part of the phase.

Second, The veteran bikers killed one loota in close combat so I removed the only one on the ground floor of the ruin and they couldn't consolidate into the second floor.  The lootas were no longer within an inch of the bikers so they didn't fight.  I checked the errata and found out I was right about that.

Anyway, thanks for reading and thanks to my opponent!  I look forward to trying out Maelstrom missions with you next time.

Offline Blazinghand

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Re: 1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2019, 05:06:05 AM »
Great battle report! Seems like iron hands just didn't have the firepower to thin out the orks.

A unit can activate in the fight phase, allowing it to Pile In, Fight, and Consolidate, if one of the following two things are true:
1) the unit is within 1" of the enemy
Or
2) the unit charged this turn
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Offline Roboknee77

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Re: 1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2019, 09:14:03 AM »
Thanks Blazinghand, glad you enjoyed it.  You're right, needing more firepower was one of the things Mccomas and I discussed after the battle.  If flamers still used templates this edition they'd be much more effective.  More bolter weapons will probably be the way to go with the new bolter discipline rule.

Thanks for the combat rules too.  I'm not used to combat with multiple units in a fight.  I've mostly had my boys fight on unit at a time so no rule questions came up.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: 1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2019, 09:48:25 AM »
One thing that came up in another thread after my last batrep was that you could consolidate with the Dread, but unless it declared a charge against the unit it consolidated into, it can't attack it. So, if you want to leapfrog through units, you need to declare against all *potential* charge targets and soak all the overwatch first.

Offline Roboknee77

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Re: 1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2019, 01:23:23 PM »
You know what, you're right, and so was McComas.  It didn't make sense to me that a unit that charged (the second dreadnought) and had no unit to fight (the boyz killed by the first dreadnought) any more could be picked to fight because it didn't have a target within 1'' of it.  But, looking at the rules because it charged it can still be picked to fight.  How about that.  Good to know.

Offline McComas

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Re: 1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2019, 02:51:30 PM »
Great game Roboknee!

My thoughts:

My first proper game playing Astartes was about what I expected: not as fast or shooty or sneaky as my beloved mech-Eldar, but better at more things and actually has some assault capability. And I love how they look on the table.

My plan was to advance under the guns of my castle and try to silence the Lootas/Smasha Guns.  Hence taking first turn, popping smoke and hiding the bikes.  I think this was a mistake: if I have range, I had better shoot.   From last game I learned that the Grot screen has to go, so I spent rather more time shooting it than I would have liked.  I don't expect this will change in the future. 

I should have done more to deny you the placement on the 1st turn 'da jump,' but not sure how.  We even discussed it before the game started.  I guess I could have left the Stormtalon there, but then it isn't shooting.  I could have left the scouts in that corner, but they would have been out of cover and they did good work on the Weirdboy.  I'm a bit at a loss here as I don't really have bubble wrap units.  Maybe I should have turned around my charge to deal with it?  That doesn't sound great either.

I underestimated the Boss and my bike retinue didn't get to do its thing.  I will have to be more careful with it next time, but I was happy with the Captain's performance.  Not happy with the Dreads who didn't do well against the Boss or the Boys.  I already have a pair of Contemptors on the way.  Very happy with the Stormtalon, but I imagine it's target priority will go up. 

I agree with the observation that I didn't have enough shots.  Now that I have tested them myself and understand Bolter Discipline: flamers are out and storm bolters are in.

So those are the strategic and tactical errors that tripped me up, now the rules errors:

1.)  I could have consolidated the vets into a Smasha gun after killing that Loota.  Would have helped
2.) I forgot the Techmarine gunner can repair the TFC.  At the rate we were going that combat might have gone all game.

I am already looking forward to the rematch!   

Offline Wyddr

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Re: 1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission
« Reply #6 on: July 1, 2019, 12:37:56 PM »
My thoughts about denying Da Jump with Vanilla Marines go as follows:

1) Two units of Scouts, at least. Honestly, I don't think 10-man Tacs are terribly efficient and you can probably save points there.

2) Remember that Orks cannot charge a flyer (unless they also Fly), so the Storm Talon can act as an effective buffer if you don't get first turn.

3) Use your Rhinos as screens more than transports. It will be very difficult for a Rhino to successfully take a pack of anybody anywhere before it explodes, anyway, so you may as well use it as a kind of mobile terrain.

Generally, yeah, Vanilla Marines don't have many good screening options. Don't forget that you have access to the Auspex Scan stratagem, which lets you shoot units that pop up with your infantry. Keep your guys close to a Chapter Master or similar and you can put some hurt on them *before* they can manage a charge. Might not help much against 30 boyz, but could be something of a deterrent for more elite Ork units.

Offline SKEETERGOD

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Re: 1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission
« Reply #7 on: July 1, 2019, 03:21:36 PM »
Another great victory against the ard boy umies. Good Stuff!!  8)

Now, take all that scrap layin about for free and get the meks to work to build something useful like some battle wagons. ;D
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Offline Roboknee77

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Re: 1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission
« Reply #8 on: July 2, 2019, 11:38:43 AM »
Thanks Skeeter.  I do have a Battle Wagon and a Wartrike sitting around, waiting to be put together.

Offline Uncle Tungsten

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Re: 1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission
« Reply #9 on: July 8, 2019, 11:16:00 AM »

I should have done more to deny you the placement on the 1st turn 'da jump,' but not sure how.  We even discussed it before the game started.  I guess I could have left the Stormtalon there, but then it isn't shooting.  I could have left the scouts in that corner, but they would have been out of cover and they did good work on the Weirdboy.  I'm a bit at a loss here as I don't really have bubble wrap units.  Maybe I should have turned around my charge to deal with it?  That doesn't sound great either.

It's tough, because marines can't saturate real estate with models to deny deep strike opportunities or employ cheap bubble wrap. Maybe two man veteran squads, spaced out 9 inches apart? As Wyddr mentioned, it might be more about deterrents, like auspex scan guided bolter fire.

Looks like the scouts actually did some work. Is that on par for them?

Offline Wyddr

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Re: 1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission
« Reply #10 on: July 8, 2019, 11:44:18 AM »
A side note on Marine lists: take Chapter Masters.

That re-roll bubble is *monstrously* good and I think is a minimum requirement to make Marines functional.

Offline McComas

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Re: 1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission
« Reply #11 on: July 9, 2019, 12:36:08 PM »
Thanks for the responses guys.  I got a second game in against these Orks, but with less Jumpiness so I haven't been able to test these suggestions.   

My thoughts about denying Da Jump with Vanilla Marines go as follows:

1) Two units of Scouts, at least. Honestly, I don't think 10-man Tacs are terribly efficient and you can probably save points there.

2) Remember that Orks cannot charge a flyer (unless they also Fly), so the Storm Talon can act as an effective buffer if you don't get first turn.

3) Use your Rhinos as screens more than transports. It will be very difficult for a Rhino to successfully take a pack of anybody anywhere before it explodes, anyway, so you may as well use it as a kind of mobile terrain.

Generally, yeah, Vanilla Marines don't have many good screening options. Don't forget that you have access to the Auspex Scan stratagem, which lets you shoot units that pop up with your infantry. Keep your guys close to a Chapter Master or similar and you can put some hurt on them *before* they can manage a charge. Might not help much against 30 boyz, but could be something of a deterrent for more elite Ork units.

1.) My scouts have performed well through two games, but I can't see myself bringing two units.  I feel like 2 tac squads are key thematically and I am not ready to give up on taking 2 yet.  Also, the way I spec them, the scouts aren't much cheaper on a per wound basis.  (Side note: Aeldari Rangers seem a lot better for the points, but that is neither here nor there)

2.) Noted.  I might have to consider holding it back in my deployment for a turn in hover mode.  Roboknee definitely shot at it more in this last game and I think it is getting a reputation for itself.

3.) The Rhinos have been getting blown up turn 1 and riding in them is a bit of a liability. 

4.) I used Auspex scan in game 1, but it doesn't work too well for my army.  Mainly because it can only be used on an Infantry unit and I combat squad a lot.  Again, it is rather inferior to the Aeldari version, which allows any one unit to fire so long as they have LOS and are within 6" of a Farseer. 

5.) When you say, "take Chapter Masters," do you mean named characters or the 3 CP upgrade?  I don't have access to the former and the latter seems really steep.  And I don't think the Space Marines strategems are all that good (especially compared to the Aedari, which I need to stop doing  ;)

Uncle Tungsten:

I'm not sure if the Scouts are over performing or not.  They are doing regular and at least 1 mortal wound each time they shoot and Roboknee definitely got nervous leaving his Weird Boys exposed to their fire. 

Offline Wyddr

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Re: 1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2019, 03:12:55 PM »
I realize the 3CP cost is steep, but the force multiplier is HUGE. Been running a Watch Master in my Deathwatch and that eye-roll bubble is 100% worth every penny.

It makes mediocre shooting units good, and good ones *great.*

As for 3: no, definitely don't ride in Rhinos, but you can place them to block Da Jump or delay assaults.

Finally, it does sound as though your scouts are over performing. Mine have barely ever killed anyone, let alone a character.

Offline Roboknee77

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Re: 1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2019, 03:50:53 PM »
I realize the 3CP cost is steep, but the force multiplier is HUGE. Been running a Watch Master in my Deathwatch and that eye-roll bubble is 100% worth every penny.

I will attest to this fact.  His re-roll bubble is crazy!  That coupled with wounding infantry on 2+ is insane.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: 1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2019, 09:38:23 AM »
I realize the 3CP cost is steep, but the force multiplier is HUGE. Been running a Watch Master in my Deathwatch and that eye-roll bubble is 100% worth every penny.

I will attest to this fact.  His re-roll bubble is crazy!  That coupled with wounding infantry on 2+ is insane.

Yeah, Fraley can't get that one.  :(

But he *can* take Centurions, so there's that.

Offline McComas

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Re: 1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2019, 12:34:00 PM »
I'm not quite sure how to take this list up to 1750.  I own a jump pack Chaplain and 5 jump pack vanguards with lightning claws that would just about come to 250 and give me some much needed mobility, but not sure how I feel about that.

Which Centurions do you think I should look at?

Offline Wyddr

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Re: 1500 Orks vs. Iron Hands: Retrieval Mission
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2019, 12:38:58 PM »
Well, I can't say Cents are a cost-effective choice, exactly, but a trio of Heavy Bolter Centurions with Hurricane Bolters kick out 54 shots--good for parking somewhere and shooting like crazy, ideally within a re-roll bubble of some kind.

I also love assault centurions, but delivery is a serious issue for them, since they can only ride in Land Raiders and move slower than orks.

The Flesh Is Weak is something that might help Centurions overcome their biggest failing (no invul save).

Can't say they'll work perfectly, but if you stick them in cover in a strategic position, they're a great area denial unit.

 


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